Frozone212 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Quick question: If someone were to replace the z80 with a 6502, what would be the result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 The computer would not start up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozone212 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 serious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Why would it? You've got Z80 firmware which is quite different than 6502 code.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozone212 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 just wondering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Don't forget about simple electrical compatibility. The 6502 and Z-80 will have the same pins doing different functions. So in addition to firmware/software, you'd have to build a conversion board or socket adapter - which can be complex. But on the Apple II you could install a Z-80. Typically in the form of a CP/M card. At one point the Apple II was the most popular machine for running CP/M! https://gglabs.us/node/2098 AE Z80 Plus - Brochure.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almightytodd Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 During the 8-bit era, there were a number of computers designed to take advantage of both the 6502 and the Z80 CPU (...usually for the purpose of running CP/M as noted). The two most well-known examples would be the Commodore 128 and the BBC Micro. But I think speculation on the ZX81/TS1000 with a different CPU misses the point. The motivation for the design of this machine (and its predecessor, the ZX80), was to get a BASIC-language microcomputer into the hands of as many people as possible (by making it super inexpensive). If you read about the history of the development of BASIC language and computer time-sharing at Dartmouth College, you will find very similar objectives. BASIC language was not designed as a pathway to computer science (although for many of us, it was). It was designed to expose Dartmouth College students in majors other than mathematics and engineering to computers; as the mathematics professors there realized that computers would eventually come into our homes and into our lives. The Z80 was based on the Intel 8080, while the 6502 came from the Motorola 6800. Sir Clive probably reasoned that there would be more engineers familiar with Intel than Motorola microprocessor design. A very thorough understanding of the CPU was crucial to the integration of the pre-tokenized BASIC character set with the membrane keyboard, the ULA chip, and the 8K ROM that stored the BASIC interpreter for the ZX81. I've never read anything about why Wozniak decided to go with the 6502; or if he ever considered the Zilog CPU. For Commodore, I think Tramiel realized early on that Commodore would be able to buy MOS Technology and prevent a repeat of his experience with Texas Instruments when they were starving his calculator business of chips in favor of their competing TI calculator models. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 IIRC he wanted to use the 6800, but the 6502 was cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 hours ago, almightytodd said: I've never read anything about why Wozniak decided to go with the 6502; It was strictly cost and in the quantity he wanted. An instant decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 11 hours ago, The Usotsuki said: IIRC he wanted to use the 6800, but the 6502 was cheaper. He designed the original Apple to take either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 15 hours ago, ClausB said: He designed the original Apple to take either. I was referring to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozone212 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 3M post it note will get destroyed during a rainstorm. the TS1000 (as long as it's not plugged in) will survive ragnarok (assumedly) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Pretty sure the plastics and other parts in a TS1000 will degrade into non-functionality before a Post-It note's fibers disintegrate. Especially the plastics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wierd_w Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Depends... Cellulose has a long life but not infinite. Plastics outgas, and the plasticiser degrades, but if kept in a hermetic environment, that process stops. Properly stored, it's kind of a tossup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwlngmad Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 The TS1000 / ZX-81 is a pretty hardy little device all things told. As far as electronics go, I am sure that one could keep the machine up and running a heckuva lot longer than most modern devices I would think. But, once we lose all power and go back to the stone age, post-its would win out big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wierd_w Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Naw. Vacuum tubes can be made with darkage tech. Lampworked glass and copper would work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almightytodd Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Wow, I didn't know this discussion was going to devolve into post-apocalyptic scenarios. I think the TS 1000 becomes useless far sooner than any situation where a steady low-voltage DC current would not be available. The real problem for the Timex machine is input and output. The membrane keyboard was never designed to be enduring. The "mass storage" device of choice was audio cassette, with magnetic tape that degrades over time; and good luck finding a working cassette player. On the output side, you need a display device that can accept an NTSC broadcast signal. But for me, this lovely little machine lives on forever in emulation, and you don't even have to install it. You can just click this link and be instantly transported back to the 1980s. And if you use a tablet device, you can even experience the full effect of the original smooth-surface keyboard (...which was so horrible back then, but now we're all totally okay with "buttons" that don't really "press"). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle_jedi Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 1/10/2023 at 1:09 PM, Hwlngmad said: The TS1000 / ZX-81 is a pretty hardy little device all things told. As far as electronics go, I am sure that one could keep the machine up and running a heckuva lot longer than most modern devices I would think. But, once we lose all power and go back to the stone age, post-its would win out big time. Yeah but then you'll need the ZX81 to get the abandoned nuclear power plant back online and safe civilization..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwlngmad Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 On 1/15/2023 at 5:03 PM, oracle_jedi said: Yeah but then you'll need the ZX81 to get the abandoned nuclear power plant back online and safe civilization..... Hey if that's what we got then that's what we got. We shouldn't have let it get down to that in the first place if/when that happens of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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