If the Powerpak will work on an NES emulator, it will work on an NOAC clone

[Joe_Cracker]

Some of you have already seen this, http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/159685-a-new-nes-clone-to-play-the-powerpak/page__st__25

 

Now I want you playas to read this

 

GOOD NEWS! GOOD NEWS! GOOD NEWS!

 

The PowerPak works on the Super8/TriStar, but there's a catch.

 

If you have ever loaded the powerpak's boot rom on an NES pc emulator, you may know that you get a screen like this.

This is exactly what I'm getting from the Super 8/TriStar

 

If you load the powerpak from your old front loading NES, then you know you'll get a screen like this.

And then in seconds, your taken to the menu screen.

 

Now the trick is to http://www.retrousb.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=34 and download the powerpak mappers file, after you unzip it, inside you'll find another zip file called "powerpakboot111.zip" inside you'll find a file called "loader111.nes" above all else, that is what makes the powerpak work in original hardware, someone needs to get into that file and crack it to where it will load on an NES emulator on the PC from the CF card while plugged into the USB card reader. Get that to work on an emulator and then it should work on the Super8/TriStar.

 

I said if this thing didn't work, I was getting rid of it but since it does work, I'm keeping it.

 

Now here is the thing, I know there has got to be some hacker out there reading this so let me tell you what has to be done. You see the instructions above, now you take the loader111.nes file and hack it. Make a new loader rom, get to where it can work on FAT16 and FAT32 formatted card media, in it's root directory there is a folder called "POWERPAK" and in that folder among alot of files is the powerpakboot111.zip file, in there you'll find the .nes file that boots the powerpak in original hardware. Now the goal is to make a booting .nes rom that will boot the powerpak from the CF card in an emulator like it would in original hardware, now with this working, you take the CF card out of the card reader and into the Super8/TriStar and then send me a private message with a link to download the rom when it's ready, I'll only need the rom, I already got everything else.

 

Get me the rom and you'll be one of the first six to test out the 0.1 beta of NES Rom Maker. That is when it's ready.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Joe_Cracker

[goldenegg]

I'm at a complete loss here. You state that "The PowerPak works on the Super8/TriStar", yet provide nothing but a hypothesis as to why it isn't working. There's more to PowerPak compatibility than the single file you're asking to edit. Sounds to me like you don't really understand the technology and are just hoping someone goes out of their way to hack the device to work for you.

[Joe_Cracker]

Well I know someone out there who can, but I do know someone else can. Look at how complex this thing was to build: http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=24&threadid=1238

 

There could be someone here or on some rom hacker community, and there is none other then the inventor of the PowerPak; Brian Parker. If we get something working, then I could say to users of NES Rom Maker that they have new hardware to test their games in, and I would be more then willing to get a second Super8/TriStar and hand it over to Longhorn Engineer and have him build a stand-alone console which would be that new hardware.

 

You just need to know something about NES code, and study the code of the boot rom for the PowerPak and get it to work as I described.

 

What do you think? Can it even be done?

Edited April 16, 2010 by Joe_Cracker

[goldenegg]

Well I know someone out there who can, but I do know someone else can. Look at how complex this thing was to build: http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=24&threadid=1238

 

There could be someone here or on some rom hacker community, and there is none other then the inventor of the PowerPak; Brian Parker. If we get something working, then I could say to users of NES Rom Maker that they have new hardware to test their games in, and I would be more then willing to get a second Super8/TriStar and hand it over to Longhorn Engineer and have him build a stand-alone console which would be that new hardware.

 

You just need to know something about NES code, and study the code of the boot rom for the PowerPak and get it to work as I described.

 

What do you think? Can it even be done?

 

The ROM file isn't going to boot properly, unless it's modified in ways which would render the PowerPak useless. For example, it expects the CF interface to be available, which it will not be within an emulator. As I stated in my original post, there's more to editing that one file to make the PowerPak function in clone systems. In most cases, it is a result of the way the clone systems are built which cause the functionality problems and not due to the PowerPak.

[GroovyBee]

What do you think? Can it even be done?

To put it bluntly you really have no idea! Plus you want to rip off NES homebrew support by hacking their ROM? If it was possible to get PowerPak to run on NOAC clones don't you think the original inventor would have done it by now?

[Joe_Cracker]

We only need it to get to work on just one that is out there because it's public domain, the Super8. It was made years ago when people knew more about the internal workings of the original NES, if a screen comes up when I put in the PowerPak then that's a good sign. Right there we will have our starting point, just the rom alone should be enough, if not then we check the other files in the powerpak folder as suggested.

[goldenegg]

We only need it to get to work on just one that is out there because it's public domain, the Super8. It was made years ago when people knew more about the internal workings of the original NES, if a screen comes up when I put in the PowerPak then that's a good sign. Right there we will have our starting point, just the rom alone should be enough, if not then we check the other files in the powerpak folder as suggested.

 

It has nothing to do with the current clone systems being created without knowledge of the inner workings of the original console. It's fairly well understood how the consoles function. The incompatibilities with clone systems come from the desire to create them as cheaply as possible. That means cutting costs, which results in less than 100% compatibility. For example, the cartridge ports are usually one place where changes are made by not connecting all the pins and providing a minimum amount of power through the slot.

 

I'm very confused by your intentions here. You've mentioned trying to provide homebrew developers with a new test platform. Do homebrew developers really want to develop on clone hardware? I know I wouldn't. NES systems are plentiful and fairly easy to fix when problems do occur. Even without having access to original NES hardware, emulation software list Nestopia is close to cycle perfect and provides an extremely easy way for developers to test their code. But honestly, what homebrew developer is going to choose a clone over real hardware?

[Joe_Cracker]

It has nothing to do with the current clone systems being created without knowledge of the inner workings of the original console. It's fairly well understood how the consoles function. The incompatibilities with clone systems come from the desire to create them as cheaply as possible. That means cutting costs, which results in less than 100% compatibility. For example, the cartridge ports are usually one place where changes are made by not connecting all the pins and providing a minimum amount of power through the slot.

 

I'm very confused by your intentions here. You've mentioned trying to provide homebrew developers with a new test platform. Do homebrew developers really want to develop on clone hardware? I know I wouldn't. NES systems are plentiful and fairly easy to fix when problems do occur. Even without having access to original NES hardware, emulation software list Nestopia is close to cycle perfect and provides an extremely easy way for developers to test their code. But honestly, what homebrew developer is going to choose a clone over real hardware?

 

Q: Do homebrew developers want to develop on clone hardware?

A:Well today, if they want to sell their games on cart, then they have no choice.

 

Q: What homebrew developer is going to choose a clone over real hardware?

A: One who is sick and tired of blinking screens, graphics distortion, self reseting hardware, hardware that one never knows is going to work one day and isn't going to work the next.

 

I do know that if we go with what we got on the Super 8, we won't have to cut any corners for a cheaper system, it will just be a little more expensive because one thing I'm going for in the plans on the NES side is built-in 4 player capabilities, meaning 4 controllers without the need for some 4 controller adapter of any kind, plus a USB port in the back for firmware updates so the number of old original titles isn't stuck like current NOAC's but it just keeps growing and growing without the need to buy some new peace of hardware so it's not going to be just for homebrew developers, it's going to be for the avid NES gamer as well, because the same console that half of these NES Rom Maker users will be testing on will also be the same software that the consumer may be playing it on.

 

Keep this peace in mind, not just for homebrew developers, also for consumers, like you. Would you like an NOAC clone with NES 4 player capabilities built right in? Aside from the gamepad and the zapper that have been reproduced, I'm also aiming to add other old add-ons back like R.O.B the robot or maybe the powerglove, NES Rom Maker could give a game certain capabilities that can only be done with one of these add ons, also, our version of the powerglove would be wireless, let's not stop there as the software gets updated we could bring back alot more retro NES add ons, but one that will be new and possibly exclusive to this new hardware for a time and that is "NES in 3-D" yes, on your 3D television, or the red/blue 3D glasses in your original front loading hardware, whassup now?

Edited April 16, 2010 by Joe_Cracker

[+remowilliams]

[Joe_Cracker]

I always look at the downside when it comes to the original hardware, I have had 3 NES's fail on me, I'm on my 4th one now.

 

Now after saying that, you should have Data or Worlf in that shot so it can be a "TRIPLE FACEPALM"

Edited April 16, 2010 by Joe_Cracker

[GroovyBee]

Get the vaporware NES ROM maker software working in a common NES emulator before you develop new hardware. My guess is that the take up on it will be quite small. Have you actually used any of the game construction kits from back in the day? SEUCK springs to mind :-

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot'Em-Up_Construction_Kit

[godslabrat]

Q: What homebrew developer is going to choose a clone over real hardware?

A: One who is sick and tired of blinking screens, graphics distortion, self reseting hardware, hardware that one never knows is going to work one day and isn't going to work the next.

 

If you knew how easy it was to take care of those exact issues, you might realize why this project of yours isn't getting a lot of fans. Also, more reliable hardware won't be a draw for developers who are trying to make games FOR THE ORIGINAL HARDWARE. When dealing with assembly code, any potential difference, even a positive difference, introduces the possibility of a glitch. A homebrew developer is not going to waste months debugging code on a repro NES, even if the margin for error is 1/10th of 1%. It's just too much of a risk.

 

 

Keep this peace in mind, not just for homebrew developers, also for consumers, like you. Would you like an NOAC clone with NES 4 player capabilities built right in? Aside from the gamepad and the zapper that have been reproduced, I'm also aiming to add other old add-ons back like R.O.B the robot or maybe the powerglove, NES Rom Maker could give a game certain capabilities that can only be done with one of these add ons, also, our version of the powerglove would be wireless, let's not stop there as the software gets updated we could bring back alot more retro NES add ons, but one that will be new and possibly exclusive to this new hardware for a time and that is "NES in 3-D" yes, on your 3D television, or the red/blue 3D glasses in your original front loading hardware, whassup now?

 

Were you previously employed by the R&D department of Active Enterprises?

 

Get the vaporware NES ROM maker software working in a common NES emulator before you develop new hardware.

 

This.

 

Like I tried to explain in the other thread, you won't get a lot of support until you show what you can bring to the table.

[Joe_Cracker]

GroovyBee, NES Rom Maker is not going to be designed to work in an NES emulator. It will operate independently, incomplete project are saved as source files and a completed project is then saved as a source file then in turn saved as an .nes rom file and since the 0.1 beta is going to use the #0 Nrom and #1MMC1, the roms could surley play in any emulator but not many people have modded NES controllers that plug in via USB to their Mac or PC. I think it's best to get the hardware out before the software because the software will sell once word gets out that it plays the powerpak without any flaws. RetroZone would have to also distribute the hacked boot rom for it's PowerPak, and sell a few units on it's website.

 

Your route is all wrong, we should atleast get a prototype ready for mass production by this time next year.

[godslabrat]

GroovyBee, NES Rom Maker is not going to be designed to work in an NES emulator. It will operate independently, incomplete project are saved as source files and a completed project is then saved as a source file then in turn saved as an .nes rom file and since the 0.1 beta is going to use the #0 Nrom and #1MMC1, the roms could surley play in any emulator but not many people have modded NES controllers that plug in via USB to their Mac or PC. I think it's best to get the hardware out before the software because the software will sell once word gets out that it plays the powerpak without any flaws. RetroZone would have to also distribute the hacked boot rom for it's PowerPak, and sell a few units on it's website.

 

Your route is all wrong, we should atleast get a prototype ready for mass production by this time next year.

 

 

Do you realize how few people realize the PowerPak even exists? This is not going to be a selling point.

[Joe_Cracker]

 

If you knew how easy it was to take care of those exact issues, you might realize why this project of yours isn't getting a lot of fans. Also, more reliable hardware won't be a draw for developers who are trying to make games FOR THE ORIGINAL HARDWARE. When dealing with assembly code, any potential difference, even a positive difference, introduces the possibility of a glitch. A homebrew developer is not going to waste months debugging code on a repro NES, even if the margin for error is 1/10th of 1%. It's just too much of a risk.

 

Don't you understand anything, I thought of that. NES Rom Maker takes nes rom code, puts it in a box and labels it. Your code box says "This is where the box is level 1 shows up." If there is a bug in the rom, you go back to the source file, use the 'bug catcher' and it will identify the problem, it may be a different code box called "Falling Rocks" because you some rocks falling during the boss battle. The bug catcher will atleast be in the full 1.0, and might not be ready when we send out the 0.1 beta.

 

Were you previously employed by the R&D department of Active Enterprises?

I wasn't even in first grade yet, and 3-D gaming was first being commercialized on the Sega Master System, with the Genesis being a bigger success.

 

Get the vaporware NES ROM maker software working in a common NES emulator before you develop new hardware.

 

This.

Like I tried to explain in the other thread, you won't get a lot of support until you show what you can bring to the table.

 

I already said that I'm going to try and have some hardware out are this time next year, depending on how fast I get my PowerPak hack rom. I still need to assemble my plans to send to Longhorn.

[GroovyBee]

GroovyBee, NES Rom Maker is not going to be designed to work in an NES emulator. It will operate independently, incomplete project are saved as source files and a completed project is then saved as a source file then in turn saved as an .nes rom file and since the 0.1 beta is going to use the #0 Nrom and #1MMC1, the roms could surley play in any emulator but not many people have modded NES controllers that plug in via USB to their Mac or PC. I think it's best to get the hardware out before the software because the software will sell once word gets out that it plays the powerpak without any flaws. RetroZone would have to also distribute the hacked boot rom for it's PowerPak, and sell a few units on it's website.

 

Your route is all wrong, we should atleast get a prototype ready for mass production by this time next year.

 

You have absolutely no idea about how to do this project. It'll go far .

[Joe_Cracker]

Do you realize how few people realize the PowerPak even exists? This is not going to be a selling point.

 

The selling point is going to be the fact that in can accept firmware updates if it's NES and SNES compatibility isn't fully up to par with it's consumers, and built in NES four player. And since it's based on the Super 8, it will also play Famicom titles and the FDS.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Joe_Cracker

[Joe_Cracker]

You have absolutely no idea about how to do this project. It'll go far .

 

You mean, It'll go far it it's all done right. Trust me, it will be done right. And does anyone want to be the first to try out the 0.1 beta when it's ready, do we have anyone who understands NES code?

[GroovyBee]

You mean, It'll go far it it's all done right. Trust me, it will be done right. And does anyone want to be the first to try out the 0.1 beta when it's ready, do we have anyone who understands NES code?

 

That's not what I meant. It'll be added to the long list of internet announced vaporware.

 

Considering out of the two of us I'm the one who can actually program 6502 assembler on a variety of platforms its not the least bit tempting to try your NES ROM maker. Why would I use your system when I can do it bigger, better, faster, more by coding directly on top of the hardware. Why would I want to use a NOAC? If you are a homebrew programmer you don't want to chase the NOAC compatibility bugs in your code. You just specify it doesn't work on the NOACs if your game is 100% perfect on the real NES hardware.

[goldenegg]

You mean, It'll go far it it's all done right. Trust me, it will be done right. And does anyone want to be the first to try out the 0.1 beta when it's ready, do we have anyone who understands NES code?

 

Okay ... I'll bite. How in the world are you planning to release a tool for NES development when you don't understand NES code?

[Cebus Capucinis]

You mean, It'll go far it it's all done right. Trust me, it will be done right. And does anyone want to be the first to try out the 0.1 beta when it's ready, do we have anyone who understands NES code?

 

Okay ... I'll bite. How in the world are you planning to release a tool for NES development when you don't understand NES code?

 

He's going to hire someone from the proceeds he'll get from that Legend of Zelda movie. Or he's hoping Team Savage will code it for him.

[godslabrat]

He's going to hire someone from the proceeds he'll get from that Legend of Zelda movie. Or he's hoping Team Savage will code it for him.

 

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one thinking this guy is too half-baked to be sincere.

[goldenegg]

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one thinking this guy is too half-baked to be sincere.

 

You're definitely not the only one.

[Joe_Cracker]

How does my Zelda movie make it's way into the conversation? And Team Savage are you kidding me? Also, all the code is contained in software, not in any of the hardware, where not in the 1970's anymore. Since we don't know what kind of hardware will be used to make the homebrew, everything is going to be contained in the software where it will be on your PC or your Mac and it will an NES CPU for it's main core so you can't make something that is beyond the capabilities of the NES, this way if there are any bugs, it will be seen in an emulator first long before it's ever seen on hardware.

[goldenegg]

How does my Zelda movie make it's way into the conversation? And Team Savage are you kidding me? Also, all the code is contained in software, not in any of the hardware, where not in the 1970's anymore. Since we don't know what kind of hardware will be used to make the homebrew, everything is going to be contained in the software where it will be on your PC or your Mac and it will an NES CPU for it's main core so you can't make something that is beyond the capabilities of the NES, this way if there are any bugs, it will be seen in an emulator first long before it's ever seen on hardware.

 

You make it sound like no one current does homebrew development and require your tool in order to do so. There's a large homebrew community for NES. The development platforms are already clearly defined.

 

So once again, I'll ask my question. How in the world do you plan to provide a tool for NES developers when you know nothing about NES development?