Nolan Bushnell Appointed to Atari Board

[Dan Iacovelli]

Pr stunt or not, Atari we all know has been dead. end of story.

just be glad for people like batari coming up with ways to revitalize 2600 with the batari basic and the harmony cart.

[atari181]

Well thanks Homer, thought I was all alone on this one.

[desiv]

Dead or not, I have to admit, when I was setting up Neverwinter on my Linux box, I intentionally left in the Atari animation at the beginning of the game.

 

It is an interesting thought tho..

Even tho he might have been a cheat who takes credit for other peoples work, would there have been an Atari without him?

 

We could ask Curt, but he'll never tell us how he "truly" feels..

 

desiv

[+Psionic]

The atmosphere at Atari I felt helped the creative process. No set work hours , rewarding employees with parties, booze, and don't forget the hookers.

Would love to talk with him about why he did these things, was it a management strategy? Or just him being caught up in it all?

Everybody was young and it was the 1970s. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Why did he deny seeing Ralph Baer's box?

Because he's dishonest.

 

Did he steer Al Alcorn into making Pong the way it was?

I'm sure he made suggestions about the general gameplay, but it's doubtful he had any hand in the (technical) design.

 

Why Syzergy?

It's Syzygy, not Syzergy. Why? Because he thought it sounded cool.

 

So many questions I would love to ask.

 

Sounds like you don't care for him. I really do not care what others think of him. He is a huge part of video game history and you must respect that.

They "don't care for him" because he's a bit of a snake oil salesman...he's pure P.T. Barnum. The problem with asking the guy questions is that it's doubtful you'll get an honest, truthful answer about anything. The guy has a larger than life persona and I think at this point even he believes his own mythology.

[atari181]

Never asked why anyone why they don't care for him, frankly I don't give a shit why. The question was did he "steer" Al into a game just like Baer's or with the limitations does any tennis game come out this way, didn't ask or question wether he programmed it.

Does it really matter that I misspelled Syzygy? Or just pointing that out to be an ass? The point was, he was Atari, he started it and he is part of the history of what we know now as video games and I would like to meet him, no matter how many smart ass coments you make.

Edited April 20, 2010 by atari181

[+Psionic]

Never asked why anyone why they don't care for him, frankly I don't give a shit

Well, suit yourself. But quite honestly, it's people like you with an attitude like that which Nolan Bushnell relies upon to further his myths.

[ComputerSpaceFan]

I've never seen a single topic split AtariAge so angrily before.

 

I would say our collective enjoyment for the Atari brand has influenced what we feel about Nolan and those who have had direct involvement with him have clearly experienced some negative practices.

 

Personally I am glad Atari happened and it's easy for me to mistakenly give Nolan credit for that (even though the stuff I love about Atari happened after he left the company). I think it's similar to Nintendo fanboys who can't bring themselves to fault Shigeru Miyamoto for just copying Doki Doki Panic, calling it Super Mario Bros 2 and calling it a day. You would never hear them ever say Shigeru ever did anything wrong. Those same fans also look back at the Nintendo handhelds with great affection, declaring them all cherished treasures, not realizing Gunpei Yokoi was lambasted by Hiroshi Yamauchi for the failure of the Virtual Boy and punished with demotion in the company.

 

Being a gaming fan often clouds our memories or perception of companies and their real personalities.

[desiv]

I think it's similar to Nintendo fanboys who can't bring themselves to fault Shigeru Miyamoto for just copying Doki Doki Panic, calling it Super Mario Bros 2 and calling it a day.

 

Hmmm.. I said, Wow. Shigeru ripped someone off!!! Then I googled it..

It appears that Shigeru produced Doki Doki Panic. Then, when bringing it over to the US, he changed it into SMB 2.

(Assuming Wikipedia is correct, which is hit or miss)

 

I'm not sure that is the same thing as what people are saying Nolan did..

 

desiv

[Retro Rogue]

Wow! Is NintendoAge or AtariAge? I have never seen so much vitriol for Nolan Bushnell in one thread here at AtariAge. Wow, I had no idea so many despised the man.

 

Curt's had actual dealings with him, and there's a wake of ex-partners and "employees" of Nolan's that we're friends with, who are far less nicer than what we're saying. And just about everything we've dug in to regarding him and his public PR (which changes all the time) has been found to be BS or not nearly as attributed to him as he likes to make it seem.

 

Well I for one still think the man rocks. I found out about this at DigitalPress, and the people there seem to be more cool with this idea, than over here.

 

Most likely less informed, which is not a cut. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people who've bought in to his PR simply because they don't know any better.

 

Whether you like the man or not Nolan Bushnell still founded the Atari company.

 

No, co-founded.

 

He was the one who did the hiring.

 

No, him and Ted initially, almost all of whom were simply fellow ex-Ampex people who jumped ship to Atari. Most of the hiring after that was done by Al Alcorn and others.

 

You have to admit the man had an eye for talent,

 

See above. They were simply ex-Ampex people they had worked with that were willing to jump ship, none of which had any previous experience in the arcade industry. It was more of a convenience and "people I happen to know that may be willing to leave a good paying job for this", than any sort of smarts of seeking out and hiring new talent. How do you think they got hooked up with Cyan? Those were ex co-workers of theirs at Ampex as well.

 

and he was the one who was able to get the investors to spend the money to make it work.

 

Nolan's talent has always been in pulling the wool over people's eyes and making the deal. That and his own PR. Nobody's ever denied that. That's for instance why when it was apparent PONG may do well he hired a PR person for himself instead of the company.

 

To make an analogy, if Atari was a circus, than Nolan was the ringmaster. Without the ringmaster you have no circus.

 

If by Circus and ringmaster you mean in the P.T. Barnum "There's a sucker born every minute" sense, we're in total agreement.

 

And while the talent, and the animals are the ones who people come to see, the organizing that talent, and bringing faces to the show revolves around the ringmaster.

 

Except he didn't do any of that. Others there did it, to the point of telling new employees to just nod and ignore what Nolan had to say when he came to them.

 

And because of Nolan we had Atari.

 

No, because of Nolan, Ted, and Al we had an Atari. Ted designed Computer Space, Al designed Pong, and all 3 had to do with the entire start up and management of Syzygy/Atari Inc. That is until Nolan's head and PR trail got to big and he forced Ted out.

 

As far as what he did after Atari, I kind of like to view him like Bobby Fischer. What Bobby Fischer did after being the Chess champion of the world is another man entirely.

 

Yup, just like Bobby Fischer.....except he's not a world champion of anything......not a recognized business genius....and Bobby actually played all his games (as opposed to Nolan taking credit for everyone else's ideas and work).

 

And the man after selling the Atari 2600 company is another man entirely.

 

You have that backwards. The company was sold before it was the "2600 company" - which is of course another product he had nothing to do with and even wanted to kill after the '78 sales started going sour. Luckily that never happened or your "Atari 2600 company" and the 2600 itself would have been a blip on the radar.

 

So welcome back Nolan. Should be really interesting to see what direction or what ideas he has to bring forward.

 

If by direction you mean the online gaming he mentioned that he has no solid experience with, then yes - should be interesting.

 

Let's be honest Atari screwed itself over without Nolans help.

 

If you mean screwed itself by turning itself in to a company with sales near 3 billion, compared to the about $30 million the year he left (which was already down from the 120 million the year before, which further corroborates Nolan's own admission that he was asleep at the wheel at the time preferring to just spend time spending his new found money).

 

And by Nolan's help you mean sage advice like canceling the 2600 in '78, or having the company in almost continual bankruptcy before the sale to Warner.....

 

 

In fact the list of heads of Atari after Nolans departure have nothing to prove that Atari was better off without the man.

 

LOL, what "list of heads", you had two people. One who actually created the era of Atari ('79-'83) that is the reason most people are here, and another who was brought in to try and help after the company became over inflated and didn't even get to finish out a year.

Edited April 20, 2010 by wgungfu

[Retro Rogue]

The atmosphere at Atari I felt helped the creative process. No set work hours , rewarding employees with parties, booze, and don't forget the hookers.

 

Unfortunately it was also what was keeping it from being the success it would ultimately become. Those practices were more of a sign of the times and perks of a low to mid level company that could afford to conduct itself that way. There were also other great perks, like pick up bands in the manufacturing hall,

 

Would love to talk with him about why he did these things, was it a management strategy?

 

No, a "party" strategy. You have to remember the era, and the type of average person that was being hired to work the assembly lines and other areas. There's a reason why Nolan was known more as a "playboy" type at the time. How do you think he found his current wife Nancy while he was still married to his first?

 

Or just him being caught up in it all?

 

Yes.

 

Why did he deny seeing Ralph Baer's box?

 

For the same reason he tried to take credit for Computer Space and Pong. It would betray the fact his PR was a lie, besides the point he and several other companies were in a lawsuit at the time over patent infringement worth millions. Luckily, they had his signature in the guestbook from visiting the Magnavox Product Caravan in May. Under pressure for the pending Warner deal, he chose to settle (later trying to play it off publicly as a junk settlement). However, in later sworn court testimony where he was called as a witness for other companies in their later suits, he fully and freely admitted to seeing it and simply feeling he could improve on it. Likewise, there's Al that finally came out about it now as well. (referring to the Odyssey) "And Nolan got the idea from that, but it's like the movie The Producers, because he figured we'd rip off the idea for a game, but so what? It's no good, we're not going to sell it, we'll throw it away, so what harm is there, right? So, it didn't work out that way… they sent us a letter."

 

 

Did he steer Al Alcorn into making Pong the way it was?

 

No, it was all Al's design. He gave Al the initial concept as far as the original game he saw, and then started trying to give him ideas that would have been impossible to implement at the time. So Al just ignored it and did what he needed to do - which became a standing policy he told future engineers at Atari as they were hired under him.

 

Likewise, origin wise you can contrast this to Night Driver, which was actually a fully licensed game that was also simply described to the engineer at Atari.

 

Why Syzergy?

 

Nolan didn't name it. It came the initial 3rd partner Larry Bryant, who picked it simply because he saw it in a dictionary and liked the way it sounded.

 

So many questions I would love to ask.

 

Well seriously, feel free to ask away here. Myself or Curt would be happy to answer them, as your questions seem to be pretty standard ones that lots of fans usually ask.

 

 

Sounds like you don't care for him.

 

I don't care for his practices, or his PR. Beyond that, I have nothing personal against him.

 

 

I really do not care what others think of him.

 

If you want to accept the myth over the fact, that's certainly your prerogative.

 

He is a huge part of video game history and you must respect that.

 

His PR machine is a part of video game history. There's a reason why, in late '72/early '73, when they found out PONG was going to start doing so well that the first thing Nolan did was hire a PR firm for himself. Not for Syzygy/Atari, but for himself. That's also why he eventually forced Ted out, and why he pushed himself more and more as the "face of video games" in his PR. Some of his business dealings and hucksterism is certainly a huge part of the early industry, and I certainly respect some of the deals he was able to finagle - nobody has ever denied the carnie boardwalk mentality didn't serve him well in business. For example, the "over flowing coins" thing of the first PONG was a typical boardwalk trick called "stuffing", done to make the machine seem a great success and do things like...secure loans and investors.

Edited April 20, 2010 by wgungfu

[Dan Iacovelli]

give it up. true Nolan was the man behind Atari and he had some bad decisions in the past.

the fact is Atari that we knew back then is no longer the Atari we have now is not that atari.

The Old Atari corp is gone,but the spirit of it lives through us at Atari Age,DP and even JS-II.

plus the homebrew scene especially for the 2600, keeps the system alive thanks to al, batari and others.

[Mark Wolfe]

Well, if Nolan had any sense, he'd give Curt a job, a team of talented engineers, and a huge budget for developing new & retro products to sell under the Atari name...

 

has hell frozen over yet?

 

[jaybird3rd]

There's a reason why, in late '72/early '73, when they found out PONG was going to start doing so well that the first thing Nolan did was hire a PR firm for himself. Not for Syzygy/Atari, but for himself. That's also why he eventually forced Ted out, and why he pushed himself more and more as the "face of video games" in his PR.

I wonder why Ted Dabney has remained silent on this issue for all these years. If he really did all the work on Computer Space and Nolan Bushnell merely took credit for his work (as I think you've said elsewhere), even to the point of claiming that it was his own daughter's bedroom that was converted into a lab for the work on Computer Space and not Dabney's, it seems that this would be an easy thing to prove if Dabney was inclined to do so. Yet, as far as I can tell, he's remained completely under the radar since his departure from Atari.

[desiv]

Well, if Nolan had any sense, he'd give Curt a job,

As I understand it, he did give Curt a job. They just disagreed on salary.

Curt thought he should get one, and Nolan felt it was better for him (Nolan) if Curt wasn't actually paid.

 

 

desiv

[Mark Wolfe]

Well, if Nolan had any sense, he'd give Curt a job,

As I understand it, he did give Curt a job. They just disagreed on salary.

Curt thought he should get one, and Nolan felt it was better for him (Nolan) if Curt wasn't actually paid.

 

 

desiv

 

that actually SOUNDS true given what I know about Bushnell. ahh well.

[Mark Wolfe]

Dead or not, I have to admit, when I was setting up Neverwinter on my Linux box, I intentionally left in the Atari animation at the beginning of the game.

 

It is an interesting thought tho..

Even tho he might have been a cheat who takes credit for other peoples work, would there have been an Atari without him?

 

We could ask Curt, but he'll never tell us how he "truly" feels..

 

desiv

 

yeah, Curt has a way of sugar-coating everything

 

 

haha

 

I kid 'cause I love...

[jaybird3rd]

give it up. true Nolan was the man behind Atari and he had some bad decisions in the past.

the fact is Atari that we knew back then is no longer the Atari we have now is not that atari.

The Old Atari corp is gone,but the spirit of it lives through us at Atari Age,DP and even JS-II.

plus the homebrew scene especially for the 2600, keeps the system alive thanks to al, batari and others.

Yes. "Atari" is just a name, and has been for a long time. Unlike the Intellivision properties, which have always remained close to the people who gave that system its soul, "Atari" has changed hands so many times and has gone through so many corporate incarnations over the years that there's nothing left of it inside the present Atari Inc. (except drawers of legal paperwork which give them the rights to the Atari properties). If you're looking for the spirit of Atari, you'll find it here on AtariAge, in the work that Legacy Engineering is doing, and among the homebrew developers who are still creating beautiful games for the classic Atari systems.

[+wood_jl]

WOW! I had always just figured he must have a little something on the ball, even if he wasn't the chief talent. I was not aware of these issues or feeling over Bushnell, and it is quite and interesting read to hear about all of this.

 

I wonder if they'll be taking bong hits in the meetings ala "old Atari."

[Retro Rogue]

There's a reason why, in late '72/early '73, when they found out PONG was going to start doing so well that the first thing Nolan did was hire a PR firm for himself. Not for Syzygy/Atari, but for himself. That's also why he eventually forced Ted out, and why he pushed himself more and more as the "face of video games" in his PR.

I wonder why Ted Dabney has remained silent on this issue for all these years. If he really did all the work on Computer Space (as I think you've said elsewhere) and Nolan Bushnell merely took credit for his work, even to the point of claiming that it was his own daughter's bedroom that was converted into a lab for the work on Computer Space and not Dabney's, it seems that this would be an easy thing to prove.

 

A) Ted lives in a cabin in the boonies now, and hasn't had anything to do with coin or video since the mid 70's. B) He hasn't remained silent, that's exactly who I interviewed to get much of that information. And when Curt joined in, we double teamed him with questioning and cross-referencing to such a degree (to make sure every i wad dotted and every t crossed) that he was actually getting a bit annoyed. But the end product was well worth it. Lenny interviewed him as well and published an article that covers some of that material in the 200th issue of Edge Magazine last April.

Edited April 20, 2010 by wgungfu

[Curt Vendel]

Ted was severely soured after his dealings with Nolan. You have to understand - Nolan came into Ampex with no experience. Ted was his senior and shared his office with Nolan. Once Pong took off, Nolan hired people to PR Nolan and not Atari. Nolan had numerous meetings and Ted was kept out, essentially Nolan was pushing Ted out of the company.

 

When Ted finally had enough of Nolan and buy out was given, it was said that Ted was given a coin-op route as part of the deal. He was, the think that was left out was the machines were NOT included, so Ted had to pay rental on the machines and in the end got disgusted with it all.

 

Ted moved to the mountains of Northern California and got out of technology completely. If it wasn't for his son contacting me about 12 years ago and then the occassional emails to/from him and then finally several of us contacting Ted and convincing him to give the full details on just what happened back from 71-73, the true story would still be buried.

 

Given comments I've gotten from Al Alcorn and several of the first 10 hires at Atari, plus the Cyan Engineering founders - they have all confirmed what Ted has told and since Nolan has changed his story several times, it apparent that he can't keep track of his own myth and lore he created.

 

 

 

Curt

 

There's a reason why, in late '72/early '73, when they found out PONG was going to start doing so well that the first thing Nolan did was hire a PR firm for himself. Not for Syzygy/Atari, but for himself. That's also why he eventually forced Ted out, and why he pushed himself more and more as the "face of video games" in his PR.

I wonder why Ted Dabney has remained silent on this issue for all these years. If he really did all the work on Computer Space and Nolan Bushnell merely took credit for his work (as I think you've said elsewhere), even to the point of claiming that it was his own daughter's bedroom that was converted into a lab for the work on Computer Space and not Dabney's, it seems that this would be an easy thing to prove if Dabney was inclined to do so. Yet, as far as I can tell, he's remained completely under the radar since his departure from Atari.

[jaybird3rd]

A) Ted lives in a cabin in the boonies now, and hasn't had anything to do with coin or video since the mid 70's. B) He hasn't remained silent, that's exactly who I interviewed to get much of that information. And when Curt joined in, we double teamed him with questioning and cross-referencing to such a degree (to make sure every i wad dotted and every t crossed) that he was actually getting a bit annoyed. But the end product was well worth it. Lenny interviewed him as well and published an article that covers some of that material in the 200th issue of Edge Magazine last April.

EDIT: I just read your revised response and Curt's. I last heard Bushnell repeat his story about the coin-op route as part of Dabney's settlement in the interview he gave Mike Stulir (the only time I can remember anyone asking him about Dabney directly). I can certainly understand if Dabney had been soured by his Atari experience. Still, if he had spoken up sooner, I can't help but wonder if some of this misinformation surrounding Bushnell might have been debunked before it became regarded as "historical fact." I'm sure he could easily have gotten an interview for Steve Kent's book, for example.

[Retro Rogue]

A) Ted lives in a cabin in the boonies now, and hasn't had anything to do with coin or video since the mid 70's. B) He hasn't remained silent, that's exactly who I interviewed to get much of that information. Lenny interviewed him as well and published an article that covers some of that material in the 200th issue of Edge Magazine last April.

I knew that you had interviewed him, but that's still a long time after his Atari days. If he had spoken up sooner, I'm sure that some of this misinformation surrounding Bushnell might have been debunked before it became regarded as historical fact. I'm sure he could easily have gotten an interview for Steve Kent's book, for example.

 

See Curt's reply above. Like I mentioned as well, he was never interested in PR - in fact it was another issue he had with Nolan at the time. He didn't keep up on Nolan's PR or the industry after he left. As Curt mentioned, he literally was hard to track down. Once we did and started engaging him and conversing, it became a literal flood of information and emotions. And it was a unique mix, because it was a mixture of annoyance and hurt, with matter of fact friendship and respect. Almost like Woz/Jobs over the breakout deal. In fact, he did a game for him for Chuck E. Cheese when Nolan was starting it.

 

As for Kent's book aiding to debunk stuff, that's a whole nother can of worms. That book is filled with so much incorrect info along with some great direct quotes, that it's entirely frustrating.

Edited April 20, 2010 by wgungfu

[jaybird3rd]

See Curt's reply above. Like I mentioned as well, he was never interested in PR - in fact it was another issue he had with Nolan at the time. He didn't keep up on Nolan's PR or the industry after he left. As Curt mentioned, he literally was hard to track down. Once we did and started engaging him and conversing, it became a literal flood of information and emotions. And it was a unique mix, because it was a mixture of annoyance and hurt, with matter of fact friendship and respect. Almost like Woz/Jobs over the breakout deal. In fact, he did a game for him for Chuck E. Cheese when Nolan was starting it.

Very, very interesting. I'm certainly looking forward to reading your books.

[+wood_jl]

Very, very interesting. I'm certainly looking forward to reading your books.

 

Me too! Waiting for the preorder link!!

[Retro Rogue]

Very, very interesting. I'm certainly looking forward to reading your books.

 

Thanks. We're taking a unique approach with them. Rather than a dry repeating of facts, figures, and stories, it's more of a cross between Dealers of Lightning and Cringely's Accidental Empires. Really want to convey the emotions and feelings besides the details.