Alex Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 For those who are interested in rarity numbers: We just moved Quadrun from 10 down to 9. This decision is the result of numerous discussions here on AtariAge. Thank you for all your comments, we will continue to review other games that are being discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 I want to know what you guys think about this: Quadrun = 10.000 copies produced = Rarity 9 (10 boxed) VS. Star Strike = 25.000 copies produced = Rarity 5 That somehow doesn't seem right, what do you guys think ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 15, 2002 Author Share Posted November 15, 2002 5 does seem low given those numbers, although I would like some more information, like production numbers from a lot more games. Also, how many of those numbers made it to retailers, or did some of them get destroyed (for both titles). Production numbers are good but they don't necessarily indicate what's out there today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 True, I would like to know some of the produced numbers myself. I got the 25.000 number from David directly and I am pretty sure it is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callipygous Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 So how come only 100 Quadrun boxes survived? Okay I don't how many survived, but it seems like that kind of ratio 10000/100 or 1 out of every 100 made. But maybe that is a typical survival rate. For a million cart title, only 10,000 boxes are saved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Only 25,000? No wonder it took me forever to find. I had to search through a box of Super Challenge Football carts... Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 5 does seem low given those numbers, although I would like some more information, like production numbers from a lot more games. Also, how many of those numbers made it to retailers, or did some of them get destroyed (for both titles). Production numbers are good but they don't necessarily indicate what's out there today. Exactly. And what's available is divided by how in demand it is. If Star Strike isn't in demand it may only be a 5, even though there aren't many more of it than there are Quadrun, a 9. Incidentally although I don't agree with lowering Quadrun, I hope that it will cause a subsequent price drop so I can get a copy cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 So how come only 100 Quadrun boxes survived? Okay I don't how many survived, but it seems like that kind of ratio 10000/100 or 1 out of every 100 made. But maybe that is a typical survival rate. For a million cart title, only 10,000 boxes are saved Yeah, boxes are definitely rarer for games, and when you already have a pretty rare title like Quadrun, the box is going to be even more difficult to get ahold of. For common games, even if many boxes were thrown away, it's still pretty easy to get your hands on one (say, Pac-Man or E.T.) But, for instance, say only 1 in 20 Quadrun boxes survived and only 10,000 Quadruns were made, that leaves only 500 Quadrun boxes still in existence. That's may be too high, but given that there are 288,000,000 people in this country alone, probably not really that unreasonable. If there are 500 Quadrun boxes still in existence, that doesn't mean most of them are "in circulation". ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 16, 2002 Author Share Posted November 16, 2002 5 does seem low given those numbers, although I would like some more information, like production numbers from a lot more games. Also, how many of those numbers made it to retailers, or did some of them get destroyed (for both titles). Production numbers are good but they don't necessarily indicate what's out there today. Exactly. And what's available is divided by how in demand it is. If Star Strike isn't in demand it may only be a 5, even though there aren't many more of it than there are Quadrun, a 9. Acutally, that is not the nature of the guide. It is a rarity guide, and does not take demand into account. If there are equal number of Quadruns and Star Strikes, they should have the same rarity. Price is a different story, with games of greater demand fetching greater prices. Now, if you meant that less demand means that less is known about the quantity and therefore the rarity guide might not be accurate, that is a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Acutally, that is not the nature of the guide. It is a rarity guide, and does not take demand into account. If there are equal number of Quadruns and Star Strikes, they should have the same rarity. Price is a different story, with games of greater demand fetching greater prices. Now, if you meant that less demand means that less is known about the quantity and therefore the rarity guide might not be accurate, that is a possibility. Actually, that's my bad. I always assumed that demand was reflected in the guide; but come to think of it that would not be the case because even though Frogger, Centipede and Ms. Pac-Man are all "common" by the guide's definition they can at times fetch a premium due to high demand. So I suppose Star Strike probably SHOULD move up to a 9, if there are that few copies in circulation. I doubt there as as many Quadruns out there as people think though; as I said in the other 10's thread it seems that the Quadrun story is more well known so more people own one simply because more people look for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buyatari Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Yeah, boxes are definitely rarer for games, and when you already have a pretty rare title like Quadrun, the box is going to be even more difficult to get ahold of. For common games, even if many boxes were thrown away, it's still pretty easy to get your hands on one (say, Pac-Man or E.T.) But, for instance, say only 1 in 20 Quadrun boxes survived and only 10,000 Quadruns were made, that leaves only 500 Quadrun boxes still in existence. That's may be too high, but given that there are 288,000,000 people in this country alone, probably not really that unreasonable. If there are 500 Quadrun boxes still in existence, that doesn't mean most of them are "in circulation". ..Al But how many shrinkwrapped ones ? (sinister bragging laugh) Glad to see it got downgraded. Music machine should be next. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 But how many shrinkwrapped ones ?(sinister bragging laugh) I'm afraid to ask, but... How many do you have?! ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somePUNK Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 quick question about somehing already said 10000=9 right at least for quadrun right 10 for boxed if 1 out of a hundred boxes do surive than 1,000,000/100=10,000 right thats a 9 than dose that meana boxed et is a nine no absoluty not so whats with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Siegler Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 The only concern I have with the downgrade is that it seems to have been done as a result of discussions, not the actual amount of the games produced. Sorry to say this, but I disagree with the downgrade. I wouldn't mind it if more copies of the game were produced, but it's obvious that has not happened. What exactly was your thinking behind the downgrade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Siegler Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 I agree here. It doesn't seem that the downgrade was based upon any new influx of games, which I believe should be the only change in a game's rating. Care to tell us what these "discussions" are/were? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
video game addict Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 The only concern I have with the downgrade is that it seems to have been done as a result of discussions, not the actual amount of the games produced. How do you think rarity guides are established? It's observations & personal experiences, and discussions from the two that determine what the rarity of a game is. If the guide was done all by production numbers, we wouldn't have one. There simply aren't enough numbers... Besides, do you think a Quadrun is just as rare as a Magicard or Eli's Ladder? I don't think so. btw- Quadrun has been a R9 in the DP guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Siegler Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 We just moved Quadrun from 10 down to 9. This decision is the result of numerous discussions here on AtariAge. This is what I based my post on. If something has been a certain number for a certain period of time, why change the rarity based on conversation? It seems to me that if this is the way to base rarity, than the more a game is talked about, the more common it becomes. I just piced up two games from a company named "Bomb". Both games I have never heard of before, nor have seen mentioned here at the forums. They are both rated a "9" here. Now granted, just because I have not heard of them before, doesn't necessarily mean anything, but why are they a 9 as opposed to Quadrun? What really gives it a certain rating? I just strongly feel that rarity should be based on production and difficulty to obtain, and although discussion on any particular game is important, it shouldn't be an overwhelming deciding factor on the rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 19, 2002 Author Share Posted December 19, 2002 I think you may be taking my statement too literally. Rarity is based only on availability. However, there may be discussions that show the current perception of availability on the site is wrong, so we take that into account. Rarity is only a educated guess as it is absolutely impossible to know concrete numbers of what is available. I think we made the right decision with Quadrun, and most people seem to concur. If you disagree, we ask that you show some evidence to the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Siegler Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Hey, it isn't my intention for this to turn into a pissing war. I understand and respect your decision to go ahead with the downgrade, though I do not necessarily agree with it. I didn't try to take what was said too literally, I just took it as it was said. My apologies to anyone whom may have been offended by my post. As much as I respect others point of view, I hope others can respect my point of view. It is good to be able to have discussions without people talking down to others. I just took this as an open forum and wanted to post my opinion on the subject. One question though. If the "powers that be" cannot come up with a number of available cartridges to support the rarity rating, or downgrading thereof, how can I do the same to support the view of keeping the rating where it was? I am just a collector, and do not consider myself an official on the subject, just someone with an opinion on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oesii Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 I think some of the rarity upgrades and downgrades work by current market conditions. Just because Quadrun had a low production run and may have been a rarity 10 a few years ago, currently a lot of people are selling their copies on eBay and privately. Compare that to Eli's Ladder or Magicard which just do not show up every other week on eBay and are impossible to locate from other sellers. So to me rarity is not a fixed production run number, it's going to move up and down if the market changes. I think my definition and Ed's are different and that's why there can be a disagreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Siegler Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 That is a good point. I can totally see and understand that. Here is something along the lines of what you and I are both talking about, in reguard to these two "Bomb" games I picked up, Z-Tack and Great Escape. I comb thru EBay and a few other places pretty good trying to pick up a few "gems". I was able to land these, and I feel very fortunate for that. Case in point. I have never seen these games before on EBay. Now taking that as a "general" feeling, would that qualify these games as 10's instead of 9's? Has anyone ever seen these games available before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oesii Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Yes, I think you are on the right track concerning rarity as defined by AtariAge. Your post about those games could lead to discussions about how rare a game currently is and adjust the rarity value accordingly. I'm sure some of the numbers in there right now are just best guesses by Alex and AAge when they started up their own list. It might take a few years for the list to really mature and be more dynamic and accurate. Check out this thread to see how a Quadrun or Music Machine might be downgraded to a 9 based on numbers and discussion: http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15567 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 19, 2002 Author Share Posted December 19, 2002 This is what I mean by evidence. We are not likely to change something based on a general feeling from one or two people. However, if you say that you check eBay every day for these games (or every week, or whatever) and you have only seen them X times, that is something we consider. And if other people chime in and say the same thing, or voice the same sentiment, then we will consider it even more. That is basically what happened with Quadrun, and we monitored the situation ourselves for a while and decided to change it. If you think Bomb is too low, start a thread on it and say why. Maybe others feel the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Siegler Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Point well taken. Thanks for the opinion. I like the idea of the "grass roots" campaign in reguard to changing rarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBERT Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Hi: I was just wondering, regarding these rarity adjustments based on taking several factors into consideration including the EBay offerings... Just because a cart's title seems to be popping up on Ebay does not imply it's an original...when you all of a sudden see a new listing for "Mr Do's Castle", "Cashe the Chuckwagon" or "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" every few days, you have wonder how many of them are legit and not dupes. I'd surely consider the Ebay offerings, but would use judgement as to how much weight to put on their appearance. Obviously if a title does not appear on Ebay, that goes without saying that no one is even offering a dupe, let alone the original. I also agree that demand should have no bearing on rarity. Last year, I spotted a truly unique one on Ebay...the "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" prototype for an alternate version of the game. I sent TG Atari referee Ron Corcoran the link and he saw that the gamescreen looked nothing like the standard version we're all used to playing. Well, rare of not, maybe three persons bid and that was it. The apparent low demand still doesn't change the fact that the game was ultra rare, and personally, I'd rate that one as at least a 9, if not a 10. Just my two cents. Robert T Mruczek Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee Star Wars classic arcade champion rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) ****************************** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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