what innovations has nintendo really brought the industry?

[Jifremok]

Was it Nintendo that brought about the multi-directional scrolling with games like Super Mario Bros and Metroid?

Were they the first to bring us gaming-related food products (Nintendo Cereal System and Super Mario Bros chocolate bars)?

Were they innovative with the concept of a game consisting solely of taking down huge boss characters with unique abilities (Punch Out)?

A single character that does nearly everything (Mario)?

Cartoon tie-ins (Super Mario Super Show, Captain N)?

[mbd30]

Was it Nintendo that brought about the multi-directional scrolling with games like Super Mario Bros and Metroid?

Were they the first to bring us gaming-related food products (Nintendo Cereal System and Super Mario Bros chocolate bars)?

Were they innovative with the concept of a game consisting solely of taking down huge boss characters with unique abilities (Punch Out)?

A single character that does nearly everything (Mario)?

Cartoon tie-ins (Super Mario Super Show, Captain N)?

 

"Punch-Out" arcade may have been the first game of its kind. I was thinking "Yie Ar Kung Fu" but that came out a year later.

 

 

Nintendo were not the first to do cartoon tie-ins.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2YDb1WI0P4

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX1y_Lg5A9Y

[mbd30]

Were there any arcadey on-rails polygonal shooters similar to "Star Fox" for PC in the early/mid 90's? It seems that the PC polygon shooters such as "X Wing" and "Tie Fighter" were all more serious and sim-like.

 

Maybe it was mostly the art direction aided by the "on-rails" aspect that made "Starfox" seem amazing back in the day... a good example being the "Space Armada" level where you enter those big ships. I don't know why there weren't shooters on the PC similar to that (assuming that there wasn't some such game that I'm forgetting). Especially since "Starfox" was supposed to be primitive compared to what PC's could do.

[NE146]

Were there any arcadey on-rails polygonal shooters similar to "Star Fox" for PC in the early/mid 90's? It seems that the PC polygon shooters such as "X Wing" and "Tie Fighter" were all more serious and sim-like.

 

Maybe it was mostly the art direction aided by the "on-rails" aspect that made "Starfox" seem amazing back in the day... a good example being the "Space Armada" level where you enter those big ships. I don't know why there weren't shooters on the PC similar to that (assuming that there wasn't some such game that I'm forgetting). Especially since "Starfox" was supposed to be primitive compared to what PC's could do.

 

Not on the PC.. but for 1991 how about Starblade?

 

 

Also Solvalou was along the same vein.

 

p.s. I love SNES Starfox by the way. Still one of my favorite games and I even prefer it over Starfox 64.

Edited July 2, 2010 by NE146

[Retro Rogue]

Was it Nintendo that brought about the multi-directional scrolling with games like Super Mario Bros and Metroid?

 

Nope, there were plenty before. Bosconian and Sinistar comes to mind.

 

Were they the first to bring us gaming-related food products (Nintendo Cereal System and Super Mario Bros chocolate bars)?

 

Nope, that would be Namco/Midway with all the Pac-Man related merchandise - cereals, clothing, kitchenware, you name it. Although Nintendo did get in to it not long after with Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. cereals.

 

A single character that does nearly everything (Mario)?

 

Not sure how that's a claim, there were plenty of games with a single main character doing everything - that's the point of a main character.

 

Cartoon tie-ins (Super Mario Super Show, Captain N)?

 

LOL, apparently you're not aware of the Pac-Man cartoon show. Nintendo's first appearance of a property on TV was as part of the Saturday Supercade, the production company licensed Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. to make cartoons (along with properties from other companies like Q*Bert, Frogger, Pitfall!, Space Ace and Kangaroo). Super Mario and Captain N, both in '89, were way way late comers.

Edited July 2, 2010 by wgungfu

[jeremysart]

Off topic, but this entire thread is one reason I love Atariage. We can "argue" or disagree with/ pick apart what someone says with out being rude or complete smart asses. Not too many people here get offended or use foul mouths or flaming. Hope it stays that way

[jeremysart]

 

 

Not on the PC.. but for 1991 how about Starblade?

 

 

Also Solvalou was along the same vein.

 

p.s. I love SNES Starfox by the way. Still one of my favorite games and I even prefer it over Starfox 64.

 

I had no idea Starblade was released on the SegaCD, and recently on Virtual Console. I'm going to give this game a whirl later.

[kool kitty89]

Were there any arcadey on-rails polygonal shooters similar to "Star Fox" for PC in the early/mid 90's? It seems that the PC polygon shooters such as "X Wing" and "Tie Fighter" were all more serious and sim-like.

 

Maybe it was mostly the art direction aided by the "on-rails" aspect that made "Starfox" seem amazing back in the day... a good example being the "Space Armada" level where you enter those big ships. I don't know why there weren't shooters on the PC similar to that (assuming that there wasn't some such game that I'm forgetting). Especially since "Starfox" was supposed to be primitive compared to what PC's could do.

Well it depends on what you mean... If you want a direct contemporary I can't give you one on the PC, there were plenty of railshooters and arcade style games, but not anything polygonal and released in 1993 or earlier that I can think of.

There were some earlier games, but those are more primitive, some on the ST and Amiga too, some of which are arcade ports. (more if you include scaling 2D)

 

FMV was the rage at the time, and since railshooters catered so well, most of those on PC were FMV games. Rebel Assault was released in 1993, Novastorm a bit later. (Microcosm too, but that wasn't as good) Rebel Assault is total arcade style rail shooter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoMyR4GqPCE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoMyR4GqPCE

ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPKq3Dod1Ks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPKq3Dod1Ks

 

Note that Rebel Assault does a cool thing where the video window is a good bit larger than the screen and it gets scrolled dynamically when you move, sort of adds to a 3D feel rather than a stiff on-rails game with the streaming BG static and a cursor or small ship in 3rd person perspective being controlled. (Sega CD version looks terrible though, not because of the color limits either -as with most cases- but much wore than that due to some really horrible compression artifacts and screen tearing and low framerate for any sections doing the neat full screen streaming BG -really should have used a smaller screen size with lower compression -no screen tearing then either)

 

 

 

Starblade was mentioned above, and was an FMV game too. (at least the console ports were, except maybe the PSX version)

 

What I mean was that Star Fox was pretty average in terms of graphics, or a bit below that. (ST and Amiga stuff was more primitive, at least in terms of framerate on stock machines -on faster machines there's more; the X68000 a little more, though it had some pushed more for the 32-bit versions of the platform and a couple did have a similar graphical style to star fox, but with a fair bit more detail -and higher color depth with resulting lack of dithering and better shading)

 

The closest ones I can think of are Zero5, Space Fighter, and Epic on the ST/Amiga, though Zero5 was more sim like at times.

 

 

But if you look at other consoles of the time, there's even more: Starblade was mentioned, and that was on the Sega CD, but again, that's FMV like Silpheed (it's just really convincing due to relatively simple 3D modling and lack of compression artifacts). The only rendering is the wireframe enemies on the Sega CD (other ports use polygons, arcade is all polygons). Stellar Fire is the only Sega CD game doing all realtime polygons afik. (some others have a few here and there and a good amount of texture mapping -which it had some hardware support for- but it didn't have the resources for the likes of the Super FX -had to work with software rendering limited to the 2 68ks and Z80 it had not a relatively fast DSP like the Super FX -let alone the Samsung SSP-1601 they later used in the SVP)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmamsCXpXis

 

 

 

Was it Nintendo that brought about the multi-directional scrolling with games like Super Mario Bros and Metroid?

 

Nope, there were plenty before. Bosconian and Sinistar comes to mind.

Not to mention ones on home platforms: the Atari 8-bits were the first home platforms with v/h hardware scrolling. ET Phone Home (1982) and Vanguard (1981 for arcade -before sinistar and with both H and V -and diagonal- scrolling) come to mind, but I think there were earlier ones. (perhaps not using both H/V scrolling)

There were cases of software scrolling and even 2-axis software scrolling (I think Vanguard on the VCS does that), usually choppy, but not always. (Jungle hunt and Defender also comes to mind) Those that do have smooth softscroll tend to do so on;y vertically, like Pitfall II on the Colecovision and I remember some on the VCS too. (Pitfall II on the VCS has a coprocessor and I'm not sure if that's helping with the vertical scrolling or not)

 

 

 

 

Wasn't really making a comment on Apple's pricing, which I agree with. When I said accessible, I meant that the average Joe-Q-Non-Techie would find it easy to use their products and enjoy using them because of how the technology is packaged.

 

My view on Nintendo is the same as my view on Apple. They don't do a lot of technical innovation, but they package it up nicely in a way that's easy to use and fun to use ... and that's their strength.

Hmm, I could see how DOS and arguably Amiga OS would not be as easy to use as something a little more straightforward like the MAC (or more affordable IIGS), but that's not the case with GEM (be it on the ST or PC/clone).

 

Now, marketing is what Apple got right, but that's not tied to making an accessible product. (that's salesmanship, and it's what the Amiga lacked and ST to some extent -though that was more due to limits in funds... they did exceptionally in Europe, of course, but the decline came for other reasons -and this is way off topic not )

Edited July 3, 2010 by kool kitty89

[NE146]

Yeah Starblade to me is purely an arcade thing. The home console ports sort of made you ask 'why bother' (were they really FMV?). The arcade version though was a pretty nice experience when it was new... you felt it was really cutting edge.

 

[DracIsBack]

Hmm, I could see how DOS and arguably Amiga OS would not be as easy to use as something a little more straightforward like the MAC (or more affordable IIGS), but that's not the case with GEM (be it on the ST or PC/clone).

 

Who said anything about Mac vs. ST? Was pointing to an overall philosophy of packaging things up so they look good, are fun to use and work easily for the average consumer.

 

By 'package' I mean the OS and also things like form factor, bundled apps, hardware etc.

 

That's what Apple and Nintendo do ... package up stuff well in a way that looks good and works. Not technically innovative, IMO but in a way that consumers understand what the technology means to them and want to use it.

 

Are their issues with pricing/technology etc? Absolutely! But, in my view, their gift is packaging up in a pretty package that people aren't intimidated by.

Edited July 3, 2010 by DracIsBack

[kool kitty89]

Yeah Starblade to me is purely an arcade thing. The home console ports sort of made you ask 'why bother' (were they really FMV?). The arcade version though was a pretty nice experience when it was new... you felt it was really cutting edge.

 

The Sega CD version has to be FMV (like Silpheed), but it has the wireframe enemies. 3Do did the same I think, but maybe not as it has a texture mapped mode (unless it has 2 sets of video data on the disc -if the game is that short), the PSX could easily have been realtime and 3DO and PSX had polygonal enemies for sure unlike the Sega CD.

 

The thing about the game that feels off is the lack of music and really bland voice acting... Compare it to Silpheed where some reviewers even said the sound design (voice and music) was TOO good, actually overshadowing the graphics and gameplay, if that makes any sense. (what's more is that Silpheed doesn't use streaming audio, but realtime synth using the Genesis sound and Sega CD's added 8-channel wavetable chip -cutscenes using streaming audio though and there are a few bonus arranged tracks in redbook on the disc)

 

Cyber sled was a better game IMO as far as Namco System 21 games and there was also the 3D successor to Xevious: Solvalou, another rail shooter on the System 21 but more interesting and unique IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L56XOV-ud8g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L56XOV-ud8g

 

 

 

Who said anything about Mac vs. ST? Was pointing to an overall philosophy of packaging things up so they look good, are fun to use and work easily for the average consumer.

 

By 'package' I mean the OS and also things like form factor, bundled apps, hardware etc.

 

That's what Apple and Nintendo do ... package up stuff well in a way that looks good and works. Not technically innovative, IMO but in a way that consumers understand what the technology means to them and want to use it.

 

Are their issues with pricing/technology etc? Absolutely! But, in my view, their gift is packaging up in a pretty package that people aren't intimidated by.

 

My argument is that cost is always a factor for convenience, and GEM was on affordable PC clones too (Tandy offered it as an option on sever of their clones from what I understand), there were fully packaged PC clones too, though you weren't getting an EGA one cheap before '87 (maybe a 64 kB EGA card a little earlier), but CGA was an option (640x200 not quite up to MAC res and some color unlike the mac) Tandy's 1000 series offered their TGA graphics too, and there was deskmate on top of GEM as an option.

 

GEM could have been much more had apple not railroaded them... (then again the whole DOS CP/M mess was a bigger issue and had DR been partnered with IBM the Apple "look and feel" issue would have not been an issue at all)

Edited July 4, 2010 by kool kitty89

[DracIsBack]

My argument is that cost is always a factor for convenience

 

It is *A* factor for sure. But people also have been shown that they pay a premium for things they like.

 

and GEM was on affordable PC clones too

 

Sure it was on PC and sure it had a GUI. But why didn't consumers by it? Was it fun? Was there software they wanted on it? I had multiview on my Tandy CoCo III and Diamond GOS on my Atari 130XE. Both gave me a "GUI" but neither were real fun to use and neither had a lot of software on it.

 

You're coming at this like an engineer who likes technology, not as a consumer that just wants something to work without a lot of effort, has the things they want and is fun to use.

 

And you still keep trying to make this about early Macs, whereas I'm talking about overall company design philosophies.

Edited July 4, 2010 by DracIsBack

[nintendo]

What innovations have Nintendo really brought the industry? Since innovation means a new or different way of doing something, I would say it's their way of approaching the evolution of video games and how we experience them.

 

Compare Nintendo's way of adding something new to each new console that they develop to what Sony and Microsoft do.

 

Sony's and Microsoft's consoles have only really offered better graphics and processing power over their previous consoles. Not much has changed as far as offering players new or better ways to control the on-screen action. Dual analog sticks and shoulder buttons are commonplace. PSP is just a portable gaming system with the most processing power for now. But nothing new as far as how you play the games.

 

So Nintendo's way of innovation is how they make it a point to give the public new ways to play and experience video games. It seems Playstation and XBOX really just focus on giving you better graphics/sound, and a faster processor to support better graphics and sound and a faster online connection. Watching Blu-Ray or DVD HD on a game console isn't offering much in the way of game play. These consoles seem more like PCs. And everyone has heard about overheating problems.

 

As far as firsts in the video game industry, I think Nintendo was the first to have a microphone built into a console controller (Famicom), they had the first dedicated video game system (not computer) to use disks (Famicom), the first to have shoulder buttons on a console gamepad (SNES), the first to have built-in wireless communications (GB Color), the first to have shoulder buttons on a hand-held (GBA), the first to have stereo sound on a hand-held (original Gameboy), the first to use a rechargeable lithium battery in a handheld (GBA SP), the first to use 2-speakers and 2-screens on a hand-held (NDS), the first to use SD memory cards on a console (Wii), and the first to use motion control as a major part of game play on a home console (Wii). And now here comes the 3DS for 3D game-play without the use of 3D glasses.

 

Just remember the Nintendo name has been in the game industry longer than Playstation and XBOX. Nintendo is OG (original gangsta) and doesn't follow, they lead and innovate. Once they started into the video game market, they never left. Never forget that, lest I have to remind all of you again!

 

Let's save some server bandwidth and please close this topic now.

Edited July 4, 2010 by nintendo

[The_Laird]

I have already stated elsewhere that the CD-i had motion control (its actully how the light gun worked) and Sega did it already too with the fishing controller on the DC which could also be used in fighting games. Shoulder buttons were not a new concept, there was controllers back in the eighties for home computers like the Spectrum and C64 that used them. There was wireless communications on the prototype Lynx's so again not an original concept it was merely borrowed from elsewhere. There were Russian consoles based off the Sinclair Spectrum that used disks instead of carts. The Lynx had Stereo sound and was developed at the same time as the Gameboy, although it came out a few months later. 3D gameplay without glasses? See the Atari Cosmos which although unreleased gave that effect.

[nintendo]

Thanks for the reply.

 

I know motion control was done before Nintendo did it. I just meant that they are really the first to make motion control a major factor of the game play; unlike the CD-i which wasn't developed as a dedicated system for using motion control in most if its games. By the way, did the CD-i or any other console use a sensor bar that interacts wirelessly with the gamepad like the Wii?

 

And about that Atari 3D gameplay without glasses. That's a laugh! Here's what I found on Google:

 

"They claimed it was 3-D or holographic, when in reality it was just a small grid of LEDs (7x6) with a dual-image hologram used as a background. There were two lights inside of the game shining on the hologram at different angles, and that would cause one of two images to light up".

 

Nintendo is not using a holographic sticker as part of the 3DS system. That Atari holographic sticker has nothing to do with 3D VIDEO imaging or how you play.

 

And Atari never used/marketed their wireless communication from the prototype Lynx. But Nintendo did, thus making it available to the public in a portable console first.

[The_Laird]

Yes the CD-i uses a small box which you have to position on top of your TV and plug into the console.

 

There was also a Sega arcade game that used 3D without glasses but can't remember what it was called.

 

Atari might not have used it but I was merely stating that the idea was not Nintendo's

[stalepie]

Nintendo was the first to play with power.

[jeremysart]

Hmm. Well how about Pokemon? Thats Nintendo right? Havent seen a phenomenon like it since.

 

Not that hypnotizing children into needing trading cards and merchandise is revolutionary, but to be honest, havent seen anything as big as Pokemon since it died out a few years ago. And it has been attempted (Yugio, Bakugan, sp? ) but failed pretty bad.

 

I never personally got into it myself, never owned one of the Pokemon games nor did I trade cards.. just saying though.

 

But when all is said and done, it comes down to this: After 1983, consumers were afraid of buying any new video games or consoles, and retailers were afraid to sell them. But Nintendo found a way to revive the market and create new competition. You have to give them credit for that. All of their products may not be "revolutionary" or original, but they sure did revolutionize the gaming industry. Infact, it is also because of Nintendo that Sony tapped into the market with their PlayStation (which was originally going to be the Super Nintendo Play Station).

 

Im not trying to glorify Nintendo, but I do believe they deserve respect. Their first party titles rock, and they made my childhood more fun that it would have been. I give credit to games like Kirbys Adventure, MegaMan, and Super Mario 3 for opening up my creativity more as a young artist too. I think Nintendo is just that, creative, and good at marketing.

Edited July 4, 2010 by jeremysart

[Retro Rogue]

That Atari holographic sticker has nothing to do with 3D VIDEO imaging or how you play.

 

It's not VIDEO, there's no VIDEO signal. As with all handhelds, it's a direct digital display.

[high voltage]

What innovations have Nintendo really brought the industry? Since innovation means a new or different way of doing something, I would say it's their way of approaching the evolution of video games and how we experience them.

 

Compare Nintendo's way of adding something new to each new console that they develop to what Sony and Microsoft do.

 

Sony's and Microsoft's consoles have only really offered better graphics and processing power over their previous consoles. Not much has changed as far as offering players new or better ways to control the on-screen action. Dual analog sticks and shoulder buttons are commonplace. PSP is just a portable gaming system with the most processing power for now. But nothing new as far as how you play the games.

 

So Nintendo's way of innovation is how they make it a point to give the public new ways to play and experience video games. It seems Playstation and XBOX really just focus on giving you better graphics/sound, and a faster processor to support better graphics and sound and a faster online connection. Watching Blu-Ray or DVD HD on a game console isn't offering much in the way of game play. These consoles seem more like PCs. And everyone has heard about overheating problems.

 

As far as firsts in the video game industry, I think Nintendo was the first to have a microphone built into a console controller (Famicom), they had the first dedicated video game system (not computer) to use disks (Famicom), the first to have shoulder buttons on a console gamepad (SNES), the first to have built-in wireless communications (GB Color), the first to have shoulder buttons on a hand-held (GBA), the first to have stereo sound on a hand-held (original Gameboy), the first to use a rechargeable lithium battery in a handheld (GBA SP), the first to use 2-speakers and 2-screens on a hand-held (NDS), the first to use SD memory cards on a console (Wii), and the first to use motion control as a major part of game play on a home console (Wii). And now here comes the 3DS for 3D game-play without the use of 3D glasses.

 

Just remember the Nintendo name has been in the game industry longer than Playstation and XBOX. Nintendo is OG (original gangsta) and doesn't follow, they lead and innovate. Once they started into the video game market, they never left. Never forget that, lest I have to remind all of you again!

 

Let's save some server bandwidth and please close this topic now.

 

 

Some of these are true like microphone in a joypad, or using disks with an add-on on a console (but then the VCS already had an add-on using tapes on a console, so disks on a console, no big deal after all), but they were hardly industry leading innovations.

Shoulder buttons might work, but stereo sound on a hand held was already done on Atari Lynx.

So no reminder needed, as Nintendo is more a follower than a leader. Best you never forget that.

 

 

On a side note, someone was saying 'first battery back up in a cartridge'

this happened first on the Epoch Super Cassettevision with the game Dragonslayer.

Edited July 4, 2010 by high voltage

[DracIsBack]

but stereo sound on a hand held was already done on Atari Lynx.

 

Actually, didn't the Lynx 1 have mono sound? I've always wondered why that was because the Lynx II had stereo and some of the original Lynx titles (Klax, IIRC) had stereo sound. It was obviously intended to be part of the design but not included initially.

[The_Laird]

My origianl Lynx 1 had Stereo sound with the headphones

[roland p]

The faq says the original lynx was wired mono: http://www.atariage.com/Lynx/faq/index.html

 

When is something innovative? When everything 'new' is innovative then almost every has something that the others haven't.

[kool kitty89]

Sure it was on PC and sure it had a GUI. But why didn't consumers by it? Was it fun? Was there software they wanted on it? I had multiview on my Tandy CoCo III and Diamond GOS on my Atari 130XE. Both gave me a "GUI" but neither were real fun to use and neither had a lot of software on it.

 

You're coming at this like an engineer who likes technology, not as a consumer that just wants something to work without a lot of effort, has the things they want and is fun to use.

 

And you still keep trying to make this about early Macs, whereas I'm talking about overall company design philosophies.

Hmm, the problem with GEM was that it was tied to GEMDOS, not the standard PCDOS/MSDOS, so there wasn't full compatibility (initially no direct compatibility when it was only for CP/M)... that wouldn't have ever been an issue had it not been for the MS over DR thing, but that's an entirely different discussion. GEMDOS did become increasingly cross-compatible though. (OS/2 was like that too, the problem came with MS Windows in that case, and IBM marketing/bureaucracy -same for the Amiga to some extent)

 

The other, much bigger issue was Apple railroading DR in court... though in all honesty that's in part due to DR not pushing as had as they could have from what I understand.

 

As for being *fun* that's totally a matter of taste, but I think a completely monochrome screen with no sound hardware (a DAC or just a beeper?) compared to what Tandy and Atari (let alone Amiga) offered... Talk about a fun styled OS, look at the amiga (that gets criticized for its colorful/cartoony non serious default GUI scheme compared to the monochome Mac or more toned down GEM/TOS).

And as to fun, that automatically makes me think of games and edutainment as well, another thing contemporaries (including Apple's own 8-bit line and GS) had much more abundance of, but it PC, ST, or Amiga, especially in the context of the mid-80s and Tandy who had many games that specifically catered to its graphics and sound far better than contemporary affordable PCs -EGA was better but that was high-end and no games catered to that until the late 80s, and a simple sound chip when common PC sound cards would not appear for at least 3 more years. (later also adding the Tandy DAC for quality digitized speech/sounds)

 

 

 

 

Some of these are true like microphone in a joypad, or using disks with an add-on on a console (but then the VCS already had an add-on using tapes on a console, so disks on a console, no big deal after all), but they were hardly industry leading innovations.

Shoulder buttons might work, but stereo sound on a hand held was already done on Atari Lynx.

So no reminder needed, as Nintendo is more a follower than a leader. Best you never forget that.

The original Game Boy had Stereo sound, at least in terms of simple stereo like the Game Gear. (I think it's simple hard L/R/center panning, not hardwired like the Amiga or Amstrad GX4000) For that matter was the GB the first home electronic game system released outside Japan to offer stereo sound? (I know the MegaDrive was out first in Japan, PCE too, but I think that was mono via RF and A/V required an add-on and I'm not sure when that was released)

 

 

 

 

Sony's and Microsoft's consoles have only really offered better graphics and processing power over their previous consoles. Not much has changed as far as offering players new or better ways to control the on-screen action. Dual analog sticks and shoulder buttons are commonplace. PSP is just a portable gaming system with the most processing power for now. But nothing new as far as how you play the games.

 

So Nintendo's way of innovation is how they make it a point to give the public new ways to play and experience video games. It seems Playstation and XBOX really just focus on giving you better graphics/sound, and a faster processor to support better graphics and sound and a faster online connection. Watching Blu-Ray or DVD HD on a game console isn't offering much in the way of game play. These consoles seem more like PCs. And everyone has heard about overheating problems.

That's pretty much true for NES to SNES and N64 to GC too. (graphics and sound with some updates to the controllers)

Dual analog is pretty significant and Sony brought that, multiple triggers per side is too, as is 6 face buttons (a shame that died with the Saturn -unless you count some PC gamepads or the Xbox's white/black buttons).

Vectrex was the first to bring a really useful analog thumbstick to the market.

Nintendo was the first to really push 4 players and 4 player split screen in particular. (there were cases on older consoles but it was rare especially for the latter -Street Racer on the MD is one off the top of my head with 4 player split screen)

A8/5200 had 4 ports but few games to use them and fewer with 4 players simultaneous. (I think the NES had more games with 4p multitap support than the A8/5200) There's also worlords on the 2600 if you include paddles.

 

The Xbox has more than an overheating problem too, but serious design flaws... largely tied to the too small case and compromises they made to make it all fit cramped inside. (the odd mandate forcing lead free solder makes very little sense too)

 

As far as firsts in the video game industry, I think Nintendo was the first to have a microphone built into a console controller (Famicom), they had the first dedicated video game system (not computer) to use disks (Famicom), the first to have shoulder buttons on a console gamepad (SNES), the first to have built-in wireless communications (GB Color), the first to have shoulder buttons on a hand-held (GBA), the first to have stereo sound on a hand-held (original Gameboy), the first to use a rechargeable lithium battery in a handheld (GBA SP), the first to use 2-speakers and 2-screens on a hand-held (NDS), the first to use SD memory cards on a console (Wii), and the first to use motion control as a major part of game play on a home console (Wii). And now here comes the 3DS for 3D game-play without the use of 3D glasses.

As already mentioned, many of those are low impact (very rarely of use or of little consequence). Shoulder buttons on a gamepad perhaps (though in some respects that's an evolution of joystick triggers -and in fact, it was when a more trigger like form was adopted that they really became useful). Maybe the gamepad itself in the landscape configuration used on their game and watch line (not the d-pad specifically though as mentioned earlier), Vectrex had a very similar layout and paralleled the Famicom, but the Game and watch stuff was first iirc. (horizontal layout, d-pad/thumbstick on left and button on right) Closest to that before would some LED handheld games. (directional control on the left, action on the right, but as separate buttons, not a single pad/stick)

 

The 5200 was the first to introduce a pause button, on the controller no less, and that's certainly significant.

 

Just remember the Nintendo name has been in the game industry longer than Playstation and XBOX. Nintendo is OG (original gangsta) and doesn't follow, they lead and innovate. Once they started into the video game market, they never left. Never forget that, lest I have to remind all of you again!

OK now that's just blatent fanboy BS... Nintendo's very old, but in the industry Sega is older: in coin-op before video games existed -since the 40s and 50s with the original parent companies, had video arcade games before Nintendo and entered the home market in the west around the same time or earlier than Nintendo in the west -not sure if Donkey Kong was released on the CV before some of Sega's games- and with more software released and a much stronger arcade presence overall (and one they maintain today -albeit the arcade industry is not what it once was), and they entered the home console market on the same day. (I'll give it to the famicom that it was far more inovative than the SG-1000, though that may be related to the confused corporate position Sega was in at the time -Rosen and Nakayman forming CSK and buying it back in '84 iirc)

 

Sega also offered glasses/lensless 3D in arcades too iirc, not the simple parascope type games either (those have shutters -which Sega introduced on the Master System with 3D glasses too), but actual 3D effect without glasses or such. (I need to look that up again)

 

Sony's been in the electronic industry longer for sure, but that's another topic.

 

 

 

 

I have already stated elsewhere that the CD-i had motion control (its actully how the light gun worked) and Sega did it already too with the fishing controller on the DC which could also be used in fighting games. Shoulder buttons were not a new concept, there was controllers back in the eighties for home computers like the Spectrum and C64 that used them. There was wireless communications on the prototype Lynx's so again not an original concept it was merely borrowed from elsewhere. There were Russian consoles based off the Sinclair Spectrum that used disks instead of carts. The Lynx had Stereo sound and was developed at the same time as the Gameboy, although it came out a few months later. 3D gameplay without glasses? See the Atari Cosmos which although unreleased gave that effect.

 

Hmm, motion control or IR sensor control? The wii pointer isn't motion control, that's sensor/pointer control, the motion control is the tilt/shaking/waving sensors the remore/nunckuck feature.

 

The Genesis and SNES both featured wireless IR sensor based guns too (Super Scope and Menacer) and earlier.

Edited July 5, 2010 by kool kitty89

[DracIsBack]

As for being *fun* that's totally a matter of taste, but I think a completely monochrome screen with no sound hardware (a DAC or just a beeper?) compared to what Tandy and Atari (let alone Amiga) offered... Talk about a fun styled OS, look at the amiga (that gets criticized for its colorful/cartoony non serious default GUI scheme compared to the monochome Mac or more toned down GEM/TOS).

 

You keep trying to turn this into a discussion/debate about the original Mac systems, while my original post was focused on the companies as a whole.