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New Atari PC Computer?


Curt Vendel

  

151 members have voted

  1. 1. Which case would you want a modern PC to be made into?

    • Atari 800XL
      90
    • Atari 65/130XE Case
      20
    • Atari ST (520/1040 style) case
      41

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You know if Atari came out with a new computer that looked like an Atari 600XL (I say 600XL while everyone else is saying 800XL simply because of the smaller size) with all the dual core Atom/ION nettop innards with built in Wifi, Bluetooth, 320GB HD, HDMI out and all that typical ION stuff, sold with no OS or a custom Linux distro and 2x 9-pin controller ports for using actual Atari 2600 controllers...

 

 

I'd buy one!

Edited by MN12BIRD
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I think your going to have a hard time of it, getting the atari anme established if your'e going down the windows/linux platform route curt

 

A: you can probably put together a pc (with windows/linux o/s) for less then 200gbp, and probably buy a used one for less then that (and we are talking here x64 based p4/core duo or x64/multicore processor based systems or newer)

 

B: Market is already proliferated with boxed/badged manufacturers as well as smaller scale box manufacturers of windows/linux pc's (probably selling there wares in the 350-600+ range)

 

(boxed/badged manufacturers as in companies making/marketing prebuilt/configured win/lin pc's...i.e Hp. dell, alienware etc etc)

 

 

C: Atari haven't been active in the hardware production/manufacturing market since back end of 1993, and hasn't been assosociated as a hardware company since the merger with JTS (or just before if some stories are to be believed...i.e that atari jaguars hadn't been distributed or produced since the summer of the previous year prior to the merger with JTS)

 

D: I am guessing/assuming that initially or prodominantly your chosen initial geographical market for releasing this new atari platform is going to be the US, that then entails a different problem, in that most of the US consumers will only associate atari as a software compnay (as that's been atari's prefered business model mostly since 1996), you have to go back to the 1986/8 period for the last time Atari had any significant (or otherwise) presence in the US hardware market (both computer and VG hardware)

 

You probably won't be able to get your system marketed/sold on the market at the same base price as what it would cost for someone to put together their own pc and buy/borrow a win/lin o/s cd/dvd and install that as their prefered o/s

 

You Probably won't be able to market/sell your system at a lower amount then other boxed/badged manufacturer (since you will have same or similar costs to get the product to the market or end user)

 

The other issue here is that you don't intend manufacturing/producing an atari platform with it's own o/s or hardware (prefering instead to just stick either windows or a linux distro in as the prefered o/s), perhaps you should contact commodore and ask them now many commodore branded windows compatible pc's they sold (i am referring to the attempts by commodore in recent years to get back into hardware, namely since 2000), I am pretty sure that it wasn't very many (i'd guess in the low 10's of thousands if not lower)

 

As well as the issue about re establishing the Atari name as a hardware platform (which hasn't happened since 1996) and establishing a presence for that platform in the US, which is a hardware market Atari had dissapeared from since the late 80's onwards

 

Not trying to be neggy here, just establishing the commercial realities of the planned idea or strategy

 

Namely, what is going to be the binding reason why someone should buy an Atari branded pc compared to say dell/HP, commodore, Alienware etc (and bearing in mind you're still having to compete with the small scale pc suppliers, also the used pc market and the DiY pc market) and these companies are probably also selling win/lin based pc systems or hardware (even if it's packaged around classic/retro atari designs), going down this route, you will probably be getting the same sales level as commodore previously were

 

The other question is, do atari/commodore users, want to buy that branded pc bearing in mind that we are talking about a win/lin based system and using OTS pc parts and components, (when they probably already have a pc) just to play the same games/software etc as they are already playing/using on their existing pc (OTS, as in Of The Shelf, i.e pc video cards/sound cards, network cards, memory/processor etc etc)

 

Would you get more software publishers/supporters publishing/developing software for the Atari platform if it were just another win/lin based pc (bearing in mind that software companies dont have a bottomless pit of cash to spend on developing on new platforms that are basically based on existing hardware/or o.ss)

 

This is why i suggested an alternative route, i.e an atari platform designed around an atari-esque o/s but in a modern form, using updated versions of Atari Hardware IP's (i.e sound, video hardware) and simply expanding it to a pc style setup (i.e using the expansion slot style of upgrading)

 

Also, it will encourage more or new software development of the new Atari platform (since your 3rd party software publishers will be publishing content around an Atari o/s and Atari based hardware)

 

Not only that, due to the idea of pc style expansion slot upgrading, you encourage more hardware developers to developing/making different types of upgrades…i.e new sound cards/graphics cards, network cards, i/o cards etc etc as well as using the plug and play memory board style of ram upgrading

 

After all the idea i suggested had worked in the past (sam coupe) which basically expanded the sinclair spectrum hardware etc having similar spec's to the ST (less the 68k processor) not only that it also featured a built in spectrum mode or emulator (as well as the standard sam coupe o/s)

 

 

 

Just a thought... thats' all

Edited by carmel_andrews
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Well with the customer controller ports area, you'd have:

 

2 DB9 Controller Ports

Atari SIO port (essentially wired into an SIO2PC behind it)

 

This alone with Legacy connections would not only cement it as being a true calling back to classic enthusiasts, but would give it the edge over other systems that claim they are legacy, but are only so much so in a plastic case only. I would like something that truly bridges the gap, is a PC, a gaming PC that has enough decent power to play modern games, comes with plenty of popular emulators right on it so you can play classics and comes with at least 1 joystick packed in, and for those wishing to using original Atari peripherals, the SIO port it right there for use.

 

 

 

 

Curt

 

You know if Atari came out with a new computer that looked like an Atari 600XL (I say 600XL while everyone else is saying 800XL simply because of the smaller size) with all the dual core Atom/ION nettop innards with built in Wifi, Bluetooth, 320GB HD, HDMI out and all that typical ION stuff, sold with no OS or a custom Linux distro and 2x 9-pin controller ports for using actual Atari 2600 controllers...

 

 

I'd buy one!

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Well with the customer controller ports area, you'd have:

 

2 DB9 Controller Ports

Atari SIO port (essentially wired into an SIO2PC behind it)

 

This alone with Legacy connections would not only cement it as being a true calling back to classic enthusiasts, but would give it the edge over other systems that claim they are legacy, but are only so much so in a plastic case only. I would like something that truly bridges the gap, is a PC, a gaming PC that has enough decent power to play modern games, comes with plenty of popular emulators right on it so you can play classics and comes with at least 1 joystick packed in, and for those wishing to using original Atari peripherals, the SIO port it right there for use.

 

 

 

 

Curt

 

 

I think you have the right idea. While building re-creations like the Flashback units are a blast, in terms of practicality for a modern computer it would be somewhat limiting. An Atari 8 bit Flashback might generate some additional home-brew interest, but I think that is a limited market. Having modern and upgradeable PC hardware would be desirable and the retro interfaces and vintage styling would be a major selling points for classic enthusiasts. I think a lot of thought still has to go into the operating environment otherwise it isn't going to offer much more to consumers then a PC running some emulators. The out of box experience should be 100% Atari, have a retro edge, and still be highly functional. That is why I suggest replacing a standard PC BIOS with a embedded Linux environment. Projects such as Coreboot would enable a machine to be brought up in 2-3 seconds from power on. Put a browser, emulation environment that just works without tinkering and you have a machine that appeals to the general public. From there you can always choose to boot an installed OS from a storage device or better yet, include a hypervisor to launch virtual machines. If you concentrate on that you would have a machine that could boot into any OS or emulation environment that is ported to x86 compatible hardware. No underlying OS would be required to start the emulators. This would offer an competitive edge over other net-tops and low cost pc based machines. If you get really creative on the case design you might even be able to pull off swappable faceplates or something to change the look. For example by including 9 pin joysticks ports your device instantly appeals to the Sega, C64, and Amiga crowds. What if the front panel could be change to look like a A1000 or take some styling cues from a Sega Master system (minus the trademarked logos of course!)? You would have a PC with a retro styling edge that appeals to a variety of classic system fans. Personally, I just want to to look like a vintage Atari 8 bit system, but the thought of swapping face plates might be another way to market it.

Edited by Michael_Rose
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Is this a project to counteract this?

Commodore 64 lookalike

 

I would say yes, it probably is, if it weren't for the fact that the Commodore PC64 is just vapor ware. I doubt very much that Commodore USA could pull of a decent replica that is true to the original. If anything it is just going to be a restyling of one of their other all-in-one keyboard computers. I doubt if it will have legacy interfaces. Considering all the legal shenanigans and who owns the rights to exactly what the original Commodore produced I wonder if it will even include C64 emulation out of the box.

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One of those pictures shows it with a card slider on the side. Makes me think that they will be targeted at the industrial market; How to sell an overpriced and underpowered machine for more than a consumer marketed one? Sell to gas station chains and grocery store chains with a limited service contract using a subcontractor for the work.

 

Really, next time you go to Auto Zone or Kmart look at the register, see what it's made of. Slim clients and old computers, repackaged and purpose-built with those exchangeable key keyboards.

 

The 486 never died out, it just became a cash register.

 

Not that I am saying this is what the next Atari PC is going to be, but that's the way that C= machine is looking.

 

There was a computer company many years ago, made a computer that was supposed to make computers more accessible to everyone by being really inexpensive and very usable, having trouble remembering the name. It was called the Wiz or something. Electronics Boutique was about to carry them but they went out of business.

 

Linux is a hands-down winner for an OS, just tweak one out to be Atari. Plus a cart slot :thumbsup:

 

/edit About the ppt and dual serial; Definitely aimed at the retro guys, those are the best ports to make external homebrew stuff with.

Edited by nathanallan
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I'd say go with the 800XL look. The XE cases are too grey and bland.

 

My second favorite idea is a Mega ST case, but I'd doubt most people would like that.

 

But PLEASE, PLEASE make an external keyboard option, preferably USB. You could sell 'em seperately... I'd pay for an XL-style external keyboard with the upside-down T-shaped cursor keys and a numeric keypad. Heck, I'd buy one for *every* modern computer I own, if it was done up nice.

 

Oh, and is a DVD really necessary anymore? SD cards are almost becoming cheap enough to use for software distros.

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Question ---

 

If there was a modern PC recreation of an Atari computer that would run Windows or Linux and could play games on it through emulation, which classic Atari case design would you choose as being the most wanted and most representative of the classic Atari to be made today???

 

I'd like a 1040STE case running Steem! No wait!!!!.... A Stacy case with a color screen

running Steem.... Gezz now that i think of it. I can just get one of those cheap

netbooks and run Steem! sorry guys maybe i'm missing the point of this...i'll go read the thread here... then maybe i'll "get it"... :D

 

-rick

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/skepticism mode on

 

Let's build another Ford Model T! Sure, it won't have that fuddy-duddyness of safety standards, compatibility with modern electronics, or performance & reliability of modern cars, but Ford Model T enthusiasts will love it!

 

Not trying to rain on anybody's parade, but the only thing that would sound unique about this "new" atari computer, is that it has the name Atari on it. Once you start talking about USB & such, it quickly goes back to the homogenized PC we know today.

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/skepticism mode on

 

Let's build another Ford Model T! Sure, it won't have that fuddy-duddyness of safety standards, compatibility with modern electronics, or performance & reliability of modern cars, but Ford Model T enthusiasts will love it!

 

Not trying to rain on anybody's parade, but the only thing that would sound unique about this "new" atari computer, is that it has the name Atari on it. Once you start talking about USB & such, it quickly goes back to the homogenized PC we know today.

 

Not necessarily. I have the Xgamestation AVR 8-bit, and it has USB, SD card support, and VGA... yet is *nothing* like a PC. Heck, with a bit more RAM, it'd be a wicked little 8-bit homebrew system.

 

I'm hoping that what Curt has in mind is something non-Intel. Maybe ARM-based, or even smaller like an ATMega chip.

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/skepticism mode on

 

Let's build another Ford Model T! Sure, it won't have that fuddy-duddyness of safety standards, compatibility with modern electronics, or performance & reliability of modern cars, but Ford Model T enthusiasts will love it!

 

Not trying to rain on anybody's parade, but the only thing that would sound unique about this "new" atari computer, is that it has the name Atari on it. Once you start talking about USB & such, it quickly goes back to the homogenized PC we know today.

 

Not necessarily. I have the Xgamestation AVR 8-bit, and it has USB, SD card support, and VGA... yet is *nothing* like a PC. Heck, with a bit more RAM, it'd be a wicked little 8-bit homebrew system.

 

I'm hoping that what Curt has in mind is something non-Intel. Maybe ARM-based, or even smaller like an ATMega chip.

A great example is the Vtech V.Flash console. It has lots of cool features but is definitely not a PC (Still looking for controllers for mine). It isn't 8-bit, but still can be used as a decent comparator.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'd go with the original Atari 800 case (which isn't a poll option but whatever) and have anything that couldn't fit inside that case be connected to it externally with a faux 850 style expansion case or, even better, an expansion case made to look like one of those hex-shaped cases like the 810 disk drive, you could even call it something new like the 890 Bus Expansion. That way you could upgrade with extra hard drives, card readers, graphics cards, ports, etc. The original Atari 800 (and to a lesser extent, the 400) is, to me, the greatest iconic design that Atari ever had. And I'd try to recreate the feel of those old, classic advertisements, too.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Question ---

 

If there was a modern PC recreation of an Atari computer that would run Windows or Linux and could play games on it through emulation, which classic Atari case design would you choose as being the most wanted and most representative of the classic Atari to be made today???

 

If it runs Windows or Linux it's not an Atari, so don't bother.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'd like to see an A400 or A800 to start with followed by more versions in the future.

 

Any chance it could have the Ubuntu operating system that Dell have been using? It looks a bit more "mainstream" than Linux. There's also a lot of built in software like Open Office (Microsoft Office compatible), Firefox, Ubuntu Music Store, Photo processing etc.

 

http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/features#professional

 

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&l=en&cs=19

 

http://www.ubuntu.com/dell

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Okay, so what if its a mini-itx factor unit with DVD/CD tray in front, with XL styling and XL keyboard styling... instead of a Windows logo, it would be an Atari Fuji logo...

Sounds good. I guess a Windows machine would have much more commercial success than a Linux/Ubuntu machine.

Any chance of a black, brown, orange and woodgrain desktop theme, Alex Varanese style (remember this article anyone :))

 

http://www.alexvaranese.com/work/alt1977

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That page is excellent! My friend used to joke that if he had a time machine, he would take an Atari back to the 1920s. He would say "You hook this up to your TV set and control the images yourself" they would reply "What's a TV set?" then he would say "Dang, I knew I forgot something"

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Any chance it could have the Ubuntu operating system that Dell have been using? It looks a bit more "mainstream" than Linux. There's also a lot of built in software like Open Office (Microsoft Office compatible), Firefox, Ubuntu Music Store, Photo processing etc.

 

Linux more mainstream than Linux? Ubuntu's the same thing every other Linux distro is.

 

For the record I use as my primary and near-exclusive OS Debian which is about 95% the same as Ubuntu, and have for years.

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That page is excellent! My friend used to joke that if he had a time machine, he would take an Atari back to the 1920s. He would say "You hook this up to your TV set and control the images yourself" they would reply "What's a TV set?" then he would say "Dang, I knew I forgot something"

Don't forget the celphone.

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For the record I use as my primary and near-exclusive OS Debian which is about 95% the same as Ubuntu, and have for years.

Just out of interest, how easy is it to get printers and modems working on a non-Windows operating system? I was thinking about installing Ubuntu a few weeks ago but chickened out when I couldn't find a modem driver.
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Just out of interest, how easy is it to get printers and modems working on a non-Windows operating system? I was thinking about installing Ubuntu a few weeks ago but chickened out when I couldn't find a modem driver.

Printers vary greatly in their compatibility with Linux, depending mainly on how much "intelligence" is built into the printer. The worst of them (sub-$100 lasers and inkjets) don't even have any onboard firmware: they download it from the host computer on startup, and they require that the host pre-render the printed graphics, and the drivers that support all this are generally Windows-only. However, the more expensive ones have onboard processors and are compatible with standards like PostScript or PCL, and those generally work well with Linux/Unix print engines (apsfilter, CUPS, etc).

 

As a general rule, the only modems that work with Linux are "hardware modems" which connect to a serial port; software modems--known as "Winmodems"--also require drivers that are usually only available for Windows. Fortunately, analog modems are virtually obsolete nowadays except for a few limited applications (such as fax servers), so it's not much of an issue anymore. In my opinion, it would be a waste to include one in a new "Atari PC," assuming one ever comes to fruition, since a lot of people don't even have land lines in their homes anymore.

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If it runs Windows or Linux it's not an Atari, so don't bother.

 

Wouldn't it be cool if an old Atari computer could dual-boot a modern OS? Impossible with the 6502 chip, I suppose, but could the opposite work? Meaning is it possible to write a version of the original Atari 8-bit OS that could be compiled and run on a modern 32-bit or 64-bit CPU such that an original Atari 8-bit program couldn't tell? I don't mean emulating the original 8-bit chips but more having the Atari OS run native. I don't know enough about writing an OS to know how dumb that sounds so forgive me if that's a crazy idea. But if that could be done then would it also be possible to have an expansion card (or cards) that would have the correct ports for plugging in old Atari 8-bit disk drives, printers, etc.? I would think that a modern CPU could handle the combined chores of the 6502, ANTIC, POKEY, etc., by itself.

 

What I'm ultimately getting at is a modern computer using a modern CPU but that thinks it's an Atari 8-bit computer (but could be dual-booted with Linux or Windows or whatever to take advantage of the modern CPU and hardware) to the point that the hard drive could be partitioned for Atari DOS along with whatever other OS might be needed (NTFS, ext3, ext4). If that's possible then you could even have a separate ROM cart reader that could be accessed via an expansion card as well. Now obviously all the machine language calls by old Atari programs would be worthless but if the compiler could translate those to their new correct locations? Ok, that does sound dumber than I first thought.

 

Probably too difficult to tackle but I'm just wondering how possible it would be to do, how many levels of programmed-in correction there would need to be.

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