Any recommended PSN downloadable games?

[moycon]

Its just too bad that a thread asking about good games once again devolved into another dumb "X-Box Live is bettah!!!" argument.

 

Because of you being upset that others folks don't see things your way. ( I'm guessing because you recently got a free PS3 and you're still giddy LOL.)

 

So you think trolling dumb? Good call.

 

Back on topic....

 

Old school gamers should also check out Gauntlet II and Mortal Kombat 2 two games exclusive to the PS3 and both are games that kick ass to this day. Some games stand the test of time and never fail to entertain. I'm surprised these two games weren't brought up sooner.

[Austin]

I think the two policies can be fairly summarized like this:

 

The XBox Live Marketplace policy is more consumer-friendly. All prospective buyers have the assurance that every downloadable game can be sampled for free before purchase.

 

The PlayStation Store policy is more developer-friendly. There is no requirement to spend the resources to create a demo, an undertaking which may not recoup its costs. The percentage of consumers who absolutely refuse purchase if no demo is available is probably not that large, and catering to this segment of the population may not be financially productive for a firm that's not rolling in the dough. Often, consumers ask why x game released a demo some time after the game actually released. The reason for this is probably that the funds to produce the demo came from profits generated by the sale of the game, pre-demo. The firm decided they had made enough back to cover the cost of making a demo, which itself would also serve as post-release advertising to help the game regain some consumer mindshare.

 

One may ask, "Isn't a demo really cheap to make? Just take a level out of the main game, slap a standalone interface on it, and voila!" I'm not a game developer myself, but I have heard developers talk about making demos as not being as simple (i.e., cheap) as that. As a company, you have to decide whether that expenditure is justifiable.

 

In a perfect world: both XBLA and PSN have demos for all games because all developers use a free process that takes your game code and automatically creates a demo out of it for you.

 

onmode-ky

 

I don't buy this completely. With XBLA titles, you essentially download a locked version of the full game. When you decide you want to purchase it, you do-so via the proper methods and the game unlocks itself. It doesn't download anything else. With that in mind, I highly doubt it would take much time at all to insert a few lines of code keeping the game from progressing past a certain point as well as putting up a flashy "buy me" splash screen for those who don't buy it. For full retail releases, it could very well be a different story altogether, perhaps your reasoning describing it perfectly. For instance, sometimes demos are even put out well-before a game is released and isn't always the best indicator of what the final version may be like. Maybe that could be eating into a development cycle's budget. But to what extent (great or small)? Who knows.

[liveinabin]

As for PSN downloads, I do love Pain. It's just funny and so well made.

Edited December 21, 2010 by liveinabin

[Underball]

I think the two policies can be fairly summarized like this:

 

The XBox Live Marketplace policy is more consumer-friendly. All prospective buyers have the assurance that every downloadable game can be sampled for free before purchase.

 

The PlayStation Store policy is more developer-friendly. There is no requirement to spend the resources to create a demo, an undertaking which may not recoup its costs. The percentage of consumers who absolutely refuse purchase if no demo is available is probably not that large, and catering to this segment of the population may not be financially productive for a firm that's not rolling in the dough. Often, consumers ask why x game released a demo some time after the game actually released. The reason for this is probably that the funds to produce the demo came from profits generated by the sale of the game, pre-demo. The firm decided they had made enough back to cover the cost of making a demo, which itself would also serve as post-release advertising to help the game regain some consumer mindshare.

 

One may ask, "Isn't a demo really cheap to make? Just take a level out of the main game, slap a standalone interface on it, and voila!" I'm not a game developer myself, but I have heard developers talk about making demos as not being as simple (i.e., cheap) as that. As a company, you have to decide whether that expenditure is justifiable.

 

In a perfect world: both XBLA and PSN have demos for all games because all developers use a free process that takes your game code and automatically creates a demo out of it for you.

 

onmode-ky

 

I don't buy this completely. With XBLA titles, you essentially download a locked version of the full game. When you decide you want to purchase it, you do-so via the proper methods and the game unlocks itself. It doesn't download anything else. With that in mind, I highly doubt it would take much time at all to insert a few lines of code keeping the game from progressing past a certain point as well as putting up a flashy "buy me" splash screen for those who don't buy it. For full retail releases, it could very well be a different story altogether, perhaps your reasoning describing it perfectly. For instance, sometimes demos are even put out well-before a game is released and isn't always the best indicator of what the final version may be like. Maybe that could be eating into a development cycle's budget. But to what extent (great or small)? Who knows.

 

as to #1 highlighted here, it's never this simple. it takes time and staff and resources.

 

as to #2 - anyone who does project based work, like software development knows. There are several people who post here who do this kind of thing for a living, myself included.

 

As I kind of alluded to earlier, Microshaft forces their devs to make demos of everything, as part of their agreement to release titles on XBLA. This can be both good and bad. Good that consumers get to try before you buy, bad that it can cut into development costs for shops that are already on a tight budget, which can often make a final product suffer due to the demand. What can then happen is what we all saw with latter day NES and 2600 software libraries, where lots of it becomes unplayable shovelware, due to time constraints and a rush to get product out the door that may not really be ready.

 

This doesn't mean that the PS3 won't have shovelware titles as well. I'm sure Fony has their own dumb policies that will eventually hamper good development as well. But the 360 seems to be on the downslope of it's software lifecycle, with some truly amazing games coming out, but lots and lots of junk in between, whereas the PS3 really seems to be hitting it's stride of "primetime" releases just about now and will likely peak in the next 8-12 months and then go the same way.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Underball

[moycon]

with some truly amazing games coming out, but lots and lots of junk in between, whereas the PS3 really seems to be hitting it's stride of "primetime" releases just about now and will likely peak in the next 8-12 months and then go the same way.

 

Yeah with recent exclusive PSN titles like Kung-Fu Live (4.5) ,Sackboy's Prehistoric Moves (6.0) and Dragons Lair (4.0) and Xbox Live releasing recent exclusive duds like Quake Arena (7.0) , A World of Keflings (8.0) and Bomberman Live (8.0) it's easy to see your point about the PSN only releasing "primetime" software while all Live releases are crap.

 

Not.

 

Luckily for PS3 owners, a lot (the majority) of decent games are released cross platform.

[Underball]

your point about the PSN only releasing "primetime" software while all Live releases are crap.

Never said anything even remotely close to this.

 

I though you were done with this topic?

[moycon]

I though you were done with this topic?

 

Never said anything even remotely close to this.

[Austin]

As I kind of alluded to earlier, Microshaft forces their devs to make demos of everything, as part of their agreement to release titles on XBLA. This can be both good and bad. Good that consumers get to try before you buy, bad that it can cut into development costs for shops that are already on a tight budget

 

as to #2 - anyone who does project based work, like software development knows. There are several people who post here who do this kind of thing for a living, myself included.

 

Hm, perhaps yourself or others that deal with the 360 in particular could enlighten us a little bit? Again, when someone downloads the "demo" version of a game on XBLA, it seems to download the full-version with a cap placed on it so the player cannot access the full product prior to paying. With that in mind, what exactly is the process of limiting a fully-finished game to a demo state? How long does this take? Two weeks? Two days? Two hours? Maybe one hour? Does it take fifteen team members and then is passed through several other hands, or maybe just one member that works on $16 an hour? Regardless, why would this put a dent into the overall development costs in a negative way if it's already included in the project's budget?

[Underball]

As I kind of alluded to earlier, Microshaft forces their devs to make demos of everything, as part of their agreement to release titles on XBLA. This can be both good and bad. Good that consumers get to try before you buy, bad that it can cut into development costs for shops that are already on a tight budget

 

as to #2 - anyone who does project based work, like software development knows. There are several people who post here who do this kind of thing for a living, myself included.

 

Hm, perhaps yourself or others that deal with the 360 in particular could enlighten us a little bit? Again, when someone downloads the "demo" version of a game on XBLA, it seems to download the full-version with a cap placed on it so the player cannot access the full product prior to paying. With that in mind, what exactly is the process of limiting a fully-finished game to a demo state? How long does this take? Two weeks? Two days? Two hours? Maybe one hour? Does it take fifteen team members and then is passed through several other hands, or maybe just one member that works on $16 an hour? Regardless, why would this put a dent into the overall development costs in a negative way if it's already included in the project's budget?

It really depends on the game, and the studio who designed it. Some have libraries of game engines and the ability to make locked/demo versions already. others have to code the whole thing from scratch. It also depends on the opus of the game itself. Was it originally designed to go directly on XBLA, or was the game written with several platforms in mind, and all the Demo levels/artwork/code added later?

 

It can be as quick as importing and adapting a few lines of code and making a few faded back version of menu graphics, and as complicated as having to do all of it from scratch to make the menu system and game engine work in a limited fashion.

 

there is no one answer that covers all scenarios.

 

The budget may not include a demo iteration to be released for public consumption if the game wasn't contracted specifically for XBLA. Those that are, sure. It should already be built into the budget. that doesn't mean they won't run into snags and snafus when coding the demo version limitations either.

 

Honestly, any game that can already be easily shoehorned into a game engine/level design formula that has pre-written demo levels and menu systems is probably going to suck and not sell well anyway, considering it's likely based on already overdone, rehashed crap. Which means they spent all that money producing a demo that not enough people ever buy the full version to recoup development costs in the first place.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Underball

[moycon]

The budget may not include a demo iteration to be released for public consumption if the game wasn't contracted specifically for XBLA.

 

Since XBLA requires this, wouldn't a smart developer make sure to include it in the budget if a Live release was on the agenda? I mean it's not like Live started up last year. I can't imagine this catching someone off guard, and I've yet to hear of a studio going under because their demo programing hit a snafu. In fact a Google search on this topics keywords results in no complaints or woes from any developers about having to make demo's for Live at all. Ever. Do you suppose this might be something only the department you worked in experienced ?

 

I also noticed you also earlier said demo's were expensive, but now you just posted it depends and went further and said some aren't expensive in the least. Making demo's sounds very confusing.

[Underball]

The budget may not include a demo iteration to be released for public consumption if the game wasn't contracted specifically for XBLA.

 

Since XBLA requires this, wouldn't a smart developer make sure to include it in the budget if a Live release was on the agenda? I mean it's not like Live started up last year. I can't imagine this catching someone off guard, and I've yet to hear of a studio going under because their demo programing hit a snafu. In fact a Google search on this topics keywords results in no complaints or woes from any developers about having to make demo's for Live at all. Ever. Do you suppose this might be something only the department you worked in experienced ?

 

I also noticed you also earlier said demo's were expensive, but now you just posted it depends and went further and said some aren't expensive in the least. Making demo's sounds very confusing.

 

Let me see if I can simplify this for you, since you seem to think everything is black & white, and like to put words like "all" and "every" into people mouths that they never actually said.

 

All phases of software development take time and cost money.

 

Some shops have standardized engines/layouts they have to work within that might take some of the time out of creating demos, but can also hamper game development creativity by being too generic and cookie cutter.

 

Some shops prefer not to use shoehorned design templates, which can allow for better game design and unique ideas in software development. This can be more costly though, but provided the game sells well due to it's uniqueness will hopefully all even out in the end.

 

if a Live release was on the agenda?

 

This is a very big IF. Not every title begins it's development life even knowing what platform it is going to be released on. and this doesn't change the fact that if it's a multiplatform game, XBLA demo costs (large or small) are only a part of the picture.

 

This would be a lot easier for you to understand if you didn't try to compartmentalize everything into a black & white yes/no answer. Also if you weren't constantly trying to attack people for preferring a platform you don't like, out of some silly territorial internet tough guy act. And really, if you're looking for all the insider info to internal development house issues in software/game development on google, lol. that's just silly. Almost like suggesting that entries on wikipedia are empirical evidence that will stand up in court.

 

There are a lot of variables, because there are a lot of software platforms. there is no one easy answer. But EVERY phase of software development costs time and money, regardless.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Underball

[moycon]

Also if you weren't constantly trying to attack people for preferring a platform you don't like,

 

Not attacking anybody and I like all platforms, that's why I have multiple units of all three of the latest systems (including two PS3's)

What it seems you're trying to convince everyone of, and your excuse for the PSN not having demo's just doesn't sound like it holds water Underball.

The fact that every single Indie game (A game made on low or NO budget) on Live has a demo just makes your expert, inside information about the horrors of demo's, even less credible.

Sorry if you think that is attacking you. It's not, I personally just don't think it's as huge of an issue as you are trying to make it out, other than what you posts, I see no evidence that convinces me otherwise.

 

Now your PMs calling people names, those are attacks.

[Underball]

Also if you weren't constantly trying to attack people for preferring a platform you don't like,

 

Not attacking anybody and I like all platforms, that's why I have multiple units of all three of the latest systems (including two PS3's)

What it seems you're trying to convince everyone of, and your excuse for the PSN not having demo's just doesn't sound like it holds water Underball.

The fact that every single Indie game (A game made on low or NO budget) on Live has a demo just makes your expert, inside information about the horrors of demo's, even less credible.

Sorry if you think that is attacking you. It's not, I personally just don't think it's as huge of an issue as you are trying to make it out, other than what you posts, I see no evidence that convinces me otherwise.

 

Now your PMs calling people names, those are attacks.

But I never said anything about "horrors", nor did I call myself an "expert" at anything. I'm just a very small cog in a very large machine. And I don't think it's a HUGE issue either, and never said as much. I just got a chuckle out of mendon's post that there weren't really any demos on PSN, when there are in fact, HUNDREDS of demos on PSN. Just maybe not the particular ones he was looking for. And that's fine. But it just spiraled out of control when you start calling people "tool" and acting like you run the place.

 

And I'm not trying to convince anyone that I'm right and they are wrong. Just pointing out what I have seen.

 

There's really no reason why XBLA scene should have even been brought up in this thread, were it not for a few emotional X-Box fans who just can't resist starting an argument that XBLA is better than PSN. It's sad. Just talk about what is on PSN, can't you do that and leave the XBLA discussion to the XBLA forum where they belong?

 

enough with the hyperbole. You sound like a teenager overacting for attention.

[moycon]

Just talk about what is on PSN,

 

Well is it ok if people (not just me, I wasn't even one who first complained about it, and I doubt I'll be the last) also talk about what's not on PSN...mainly demo's?

If so, then that's all that was done.

I don't think anything you've posted has convinced anyone they shouldn't complain about it.

 

Who's overreacting?

[Underball]

Just talk about what is on PSN,

 

Well is it ok if people (not just me, I wasn't even one who first complained about it, and I doubt I'll be the last) also talk about what's not on PSN...mainly demo's?

If so, then that's all that was done.

I don't think anything you've posted has convinced anyone they shouldn't complain about it.

 

Who's overreacting?

Not everyone seeks to change the minds of others like you apparently assume. It's ok to have an adult conversation about something without trying to "win" all the time.

 

No, you're not the one who first complained about it. You've just been humping my leg about it for 3 pages now.

[moycon]

No, you're not the one who first complained about it. You've just been humping my leg about it for 3 pages now.

 

Again, not humping your leg, just pointing out flaws in your reasoning.

I don't think you've done anything but mostly complain that I am in your last couple posts. Yet I'm the one with the problem?

The only person keeping this conversation going is you, feel free to drop it.

[Mendon]

I just got a chuckle out of mendon's post that there weren't really any demos on PSN, when there are in fact, HUNDREDS of demos on PSN. Just maybe not the particular ones he was looking for.

 

I didn't post that "....there weren't really any demo's on PSN....". I posted that I wished PSN would adopt the same policy as XBL, i.e. every downloadable game available for purchase has a demo available.

 

Of course there are demo's on PSN, including downloadable games, commercial games, and PSP games. And there are several downloadable games on PSN, like Dead Nation, that I'm interested in purchasing. But after getting burnt by Sony on Final Fight, I will not purchase a downloadable game from PSN without a demo. Therefore, I wish PSN adopted the same policy regarding demo's that XBL has.

 

That's quite a bit different then saying I posted "There really aren't demo's on PSN".

 

 

Anyway, let's just forget the whole thing and stick to listing recommended titles for purchase.

 

 

Mendon

[Underball]

What you said, exactly, was that you wished they would follow the XBL policy and START putting demos online.

 

Read as it is written, that infers that they have not yet put any demos online.

[moycon]

What you said, exactly,

 

Wow, You have said several things,exactly that come off as complete BS, and when people point this out to you, you keep on with your nonsense...

why again?

 

Most people here knew exactly what Mendon ment and wouldn't think twice about it. It's a given, not having demo's for a game sucks. Especially when they want up to $15 to buy a game. So why do you keep on?

 

It's because we have a problem? It's because we are trolling? It's because we are compartmentalize everything into a black & white? It's because we humping you? It's because we overacting for attention? It's because we don't know and you do?

 

Get a clue Underball.

 

If not for any other reason than because it's Christmas and you want to give us an early Christmas gift. Drop it.

[Gabriel]

Front Mission 3 was made available recently. It's a PS1 game, but if you have any interest in tactical RPGs, it gets near the highest recommendation I can give. At $6, I think it's a pretty good deal, because I believe the actual disc tends to go for $20 on the low end. (Being a PS1 game, there is no demo or preview movie for this. Search for videos on YouTube.

 

Afterburner: Climax is on sale now for $5. I bought it for the 360 and was glued to it for at least $5 worth of tokens. If you liked the old arcade game or the PSP game then this one is a good game to check out. (There is no demo, but there is a preview movie. If you have a 360, then you can play a demo on XBL.)

 

I bought Sonic Wings Special a couple of weeks ago. It's a solid vertical shooter with a semi-modern day jet fighter feel. I would have preferred Strikers 1999, but beggars apparrently can't be choosers. (Being a Japanese PS1 game, there is no demo or preview movie for this. Search for videos on YouTube.)

 

Valkyria Chronicles II for the PSP is available as a DL game for a little over $15. That's a big discount over the near $40 the retail disc version is currently going for. It's a shame this series has flopped, because it's the finest thing Sega has produced since the 16-bit era. (There is a demo for this game since it had a disc release.)

Edited December 24, 2010 by Gabriel

[Cybergoth]

Did anyone buy Alien Breed? After playing the demo I'm tempted to buy it now

[cimerians]

Front Mission 3 was made available recently. It's a PS1 game, but if you have any interest in tactical RPGs, it gets near the highest recommendation I can give. At $6, I think it's a pretty good deal, because I believe the actual disc tends to go for $20 on the low end. (Being a PS1 game, there is no demo or preview movie for this. Search for videos on YouTube.

 

I second that. Its one of the best tactical RPG's on the PS1 if not the best. Vandal Hearts was another good simple one.

[Cybergoth]

Did anyone buy Alien Breed? After playing the demo I'm tempted to buy it now

 

After playing the demo, I must say the Tomb Raider game "Guardian of Light" also looks surprisingly interesting for a download game.

[moycon]

Did anyone buy Alien Breed? After playing the demo I'm tempted to buy it now

 

I've got the first one on the 360. It's a solid game. I heard the sequels (or I should say additional volumes) are all more of the same.

[Cybergoth]

I've got the first one on the 360. It's a solid game. I heard the sequels (or I should say additional volumes) are all more of the same.

 

I liked the many cutscenes, scripted events and slower parts in the demo, which were giving it some kind of a "survival horror" like atmosphere. Does it continue on that promise, or will it quickly degenerate into a dual analog shoot'em up after the intro?