Opry99er Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Is there a way to edit a word in Wycove without directly editing the screen? 67 EDIT pulls up the main editor, but I was wondering if there was a way to edit in immediate mode, similarly to BASIC where you type in a line number and then "down" and it pulls up the line to edit The manual only discusses screen/block editing. Edited February 24, 2011 by Opry99er Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Okay, so I still haven't resolved this issue... I took a video of the issue... perhaps someone can give me a look... Mark Wills, perhaps? JonnyBritish? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VeVO3r4nc4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 This is a little demo I did of the Jupiter Ace home computer... it basically runs Forth as it's operating system (for lack of a better word) instead of BASIC... Quite cool. =) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPNeijpC17I (BTW, that music is from one of my first traveling bands, Spirit Wheel... weird name, I know) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 I would really like to get a version of Forth for the TI that works in emulation for me. There have been thoughts that the Wycove Forth problem comes primarily from emulation, but there's no proof. It works on my TI just fine, but NOT in emulation... Can't figure out why this is the case... I'll maybe make a video of the Classic99 debugger during the "FLUSH" operation. If I'm not mistaken, it should show disk access.... Thinking about DLing TI Forth, but WHT is IMPOSSIBLE to navigate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Apparently I haven't been paying attention (why does nobody ever bring Classic99 issues to me directly? I have a support forum! ) What's the actual problem with Wycove Forth on Classic99? Can you provide me with the files and a simple test case showing the problem? I can work out what's wrong then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) Tursi, the first video in this thread shows the problem. =) The version of Forth I'm using is Wycove 3.0--- The manual specifies precisely how to flush data to diskette... Bob Carmany, Mark Wills, and Bill Sullivan have all seen the video you're about to watch and all agree that it's odd that it didn't save. I took a bit of time this morning to use Classic99's debugger... just to make sure Wycove doesn't require some strange syntax that I'm missing. You'll see the results below. =) BTW, if nobody's said it today--- the debugger is freaking awesome...... **EDIT** watch the vid in fullscreen mode to actually READ the debugger. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL6Njlk8paI Edited February 25, 2011 by Opry99er Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 This isn't on topic... it isn't even "vintage-computer" related... It's a Forth dialect that runs on my Win7 machine. I only post it here because of the "Forth" discussion. =) BTW, the music is a song from our upcoming album. Song's called "Alabama Pine Cone". =) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOL8zQt2KSM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Wycove is still broke right now.. but I'm working on getting the Geneve emulation in MESS going... I'm going to try Forth+ and see how it goes. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Vorticon Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) BTW, the music is a song from our upcoming album. Song's called "Alabama Pine Cone". =) Love the song Edited February 26, 2011 by Vorticon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Thanks Vorticon!! =) Much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 I am really looking forward to TurboForth.... I spent about an hour today watching Mark Wills's demonstration at the TI Treff and it really gets the blood going. If I remember correctly, Tursi has agreed to include TF in the apps section of Classic99 (pulldown menu) once it's finished--- Willsy consented as well.... I say we all take a bit of time and do a TF demo contest.... Once I get Aperture onto cart (soon) I'll probably start gauging the interest in a TF demo contest. Forth looks weird, but man is it efficient!!! I saw a quote the other day: "C makes a programmer think he's found the best language ever... Forth makes a programmer believe he's the best programmer ever." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucien2 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) "C makes a programmer think he's found the best language ever... Forth makes a programmer believe he's the best programmer ever." So true. He is the same program in Forth and Java (C syntax): Forth vs Java.zip The description of what the program does: Son of Darts The source size is the same. The java version is more readable, but Forth was fun to learn. Edited February 27, 2011 by lucien2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Hey Willsy, if you're lurking, maybe you could post some benchmark speed tests from some of the systems to this thread... it's kind of a catch-all Forth thread, but was originally intended for a Wycove thread... I think I'm the only person who even turns on Wycove, so it kind of morphed. =) I'd be interested in your Ace/TF tests!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 Again a bit off topic, but I was able to recently learn "spooling" in the Ace32 emulator. It's kind of like "paste" in Classic99, but more steps, slower, and less convenient. It's all Forth though, so I thought I'd post the short video I made here in case someone finds it interesting or useful. As a side note, AceForth is basically a Forth79 dialect with multiple add-ons and enhancements. It's a nice dialect, really--- that is if you like Forth, and the "cool" factor of doing this for a 1k machine that loads only from tape. =) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89wKb8FPcy8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Hey Willsy, if you're lurking, maybe you could post some benchmark speed tests from some of the systems to this thread... it's kind of a catch-all Forth thread, but was originally intended for a Wycove thread... I think I'm the only person who even turns on Wycove, so it kind of morphed. =) I'd be interested in your Ace/TF tests!! Well, I don't want to brag, but so far, TF has kicked the ass of every Forth that I've tried on the TI, and seriously kicks the CRAP out the Jupiter Ace, which was surprising (though I see that screen scrolling is VERY fast on the ACE, because the Z80 has direct access to screen RAM, and you can move scroll the screen with a single machine code LDIR instruction on the old Z80). It seems to be about 50% faster than TI Forth and 25% faster than Wycove. However, with TI Forth, once you've loaded all the libraries to make it actually usable (e.g. the editor and stuff like that) you've only got around 8K for your program. There's more space in Wycove, I think around 12K. TF gives you around 31K the moment you switch it on. That enough, bad boy, or do you want some more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Ha! =) Well, I guess I'd say that's good. At some point (perhaps when you're finished) we should do a nice benchmark speed test video between TF, Wycove, TI, Ace, FIG (for the TI) and post it to youtube... I love seeing speed tests in video. Glad to hear TF is rockin! This guy's eagerly waiting for it. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyBritish Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Hey Willsy, if you're lurking, maybe you could post some benchmark speed tests from some of the systems to this thread... it's kind of a catch-all Forth thread, but was originally intended for a Wycove thread... I think I'm the only person who even turns on Wycove, so it kind of morphed. =) I'd be interested in your Ace/TF tests!! Well, I don't want to brag, but so far, TF has kicked the ass of every Forth that I've tried on the TI, and seriously kicks the CRAP out the Jupiter Ace, which was surprising (though I see that screen scrolling is VERY fast on the ACE, because the Z80 has direct access to screen RAM, and you can move scroll the screen with a single machine code LDIR instruction on the old Z80). It seems to be about 50% faster than TI Forth and 25% faster than Wycove. However, with TI Forth, once you've loaded all the libraries to make it actually usable (e.g. the editor and stuff like that) you've only got around 8K for your program. There's more space in Wycove, I think around 12K. TF gives you around 31K the moment you switch it on. That enough, bad boy, or do you want some more? Last night I saw the video where you did the 1000 primes on TF and it took about 2 seconds. I put the same code into ES forth on the Atari (English Software Forth) and the same code took 13 seconds to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Hey Willsy, if you're lurking, maybe you could post some benchmark speed tests from some of the systems to this thread... it's kind of a catch-all Forth thread, but was originally intended for a Wycove thread... I think I'm the only person who even turns on Wycove, so it kind of morphed. =) I'd be interested in your Ace/TF tests!! Well, I don't want to brag, but so far, TF has kicked the ass of every Forth that I've tried on the TI, and seriously kicks the CRAP out the Jupiter Ace, which was surprising (though I see that screen scrolling is VERY fast on the ACE, because the Z80 has direct access to screen RAM, and you can move scroll the screen with a single machine code LDIR instruction on the old Z80). It seems to be about 50% faster than TI Forth and 25% faster than Wycove. However, with TI Forth, once you've loaded all the libraries to make it actually usable (e.g. the editor and stuff like that) you've only got around 8K for your program. There's more space in Wycove, I think around 12K. TF gives you around 31K the moment you switch it on. That enough, bad boy, or do you want some more? Last night I saw the video where you did the 1000 primes on TF and it took about 2 seconds. I put the same code into ES forth on the Atari (English Software Forth) and the same code took 13 seconds to run. Wow! That's quite surprising. To be fair to ES Forth, the 6502 has no hardware multiply - it's doing it the hard way. It just goes to show though, what *could* have been done with our TIs back in the day. Even with it's bizarre architecture, the 4A is no slouch and was definitely up to the job of keeping up with it's contemporary peers. It was the stupid GPL experiment that killed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 It just goes to show though, what *could* have been done with our TIs back in the day. Even with it's bizarre architecture, the 4A is no slouch and was definitely up to the job of keeping up with it's contemporary peers. It was the stupid GPL experiment that killed it. yeah... it really did. Over every other thing I wish was different about the bare console, just having a fast BASIC would have made such a world of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 1000 PRIMES test on Geneve's Forth+ ran in 5.2 seconds. Roughly a 57% slowdown from TF. And the Geneve is a superior machine? Anyway, I'll be trying the 1000 PRIMES on Jupiter Ace tomorrow (assuming you haven't yet tested it, willsy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+InsaneMultitasker Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 1000 PRIMES test on Geneve's Forth+ ran in 5.2 seconds. Roughly a 57% slowdown from TF. And the Geneve is a superior machine? Anyway, I'll be trying the 1000 PRIMES on Jupiter Ace tomorrow (assuming you haven't yet tested it, willsy) Next time compare apples to apples. Run TF on the Geneve. Forth+ may be slow because one or more of its routines are not optimized. (I expect TF will work on a Geneve so long as Mark uses the ROM keyboard routine versus rolling his own) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 Interesting thought--- TF on a Geneve. Seems, though, that I recall Mark wrote his own "KSCAN" equivalent though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophero Sly Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Don't know much about Forth, but great song! Listened to it twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimes99er Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Next time compare apples to apples. Run TF on the Geneve. Forth+ may be slow because one or more of its routines are not optimized. Think of Formula 1. Different cars, different drivers and different software competing. Of course you can compare apples with bananas, as long as you know what you're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Next time compare apples to apples. Run TF on the Geneve. Forth+ may be slow because one or more of its routines are not optimized. (I expect TF will work on a Geneve so long as Mark uses the ROM keyboard routine versus rolling his own) Confirmed. TF uses the KSCAN routine in the TI Console ROM. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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