Jump to content
IGNORED

Forth stuff!


Opry99er

Recommended Posts

Is there a way to edit a word in Wycove without directly editing the screen? 67 EDIT pulls up the main editor, but I was wondering if there was a way to edit in immediate mode, similarly to BASIC where you type in a line number and then "down" and it pulls up the line to edit

 

The manual only discusses screen/block editing.

Edited by Opry99er
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a little demo I did of the Jupiter Ace home computer... it basically runs Forth as it's operating system (for lack of a better word) instead of BASIC... Quite cool. =)

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPNeijpC17I

 

(BTW, that music is from one of my first traveling bands, Spirit Wheel... weird name, I know)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would really like to get a version of Forth for the TI that works in emulation for me. There have been thoughts that the Wycove Forth problem comes primarily from emulation, but there's no proof. It works on my TI just fine, but NOT in emulation...

 

Can't figure out why this is the case... I'll maybe make a video of the Classic99 debugger during the "FLUSH" operation. If I'm not mistaken, it should show disk access....

 

Thinking about DLing TI Forth, but WHT is IMPOSSIBLE to navigate...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apparently I haven't been paying attention (why does nobody ever bring Classic99 issues to me directly? I have a support forum! ;) )

 

What's the actual problem with Wycove Forth on Classic99? Can you provide me with the files and a simple test case showing the problem? I can work out what's wrong then. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tursi, the first video in this thread shows the problem. =) The version of Forth I'm using is Wycove 3.0---

 

The manual specifies precisely how to flush data to diskette... Bob Carmany, Mark Wills, and Bill Sullivan have all seen the video you're about to watch and all agree that it's odd that it didn't save.

 

I took a bit of time this morning to use Classic99's debugger... just to make sure Wycove doesn't require some strange syntax that I'm missing. You'll see the results below. =)

 

BTW, if nobody's said it today--- the debugger is freaking awesome......

 

**EDIT**

 

watch the vid in fullscreen mode to actually READ the debugger.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL6Njlk8paI

Edited by Opry99er
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This isn't on topic... it isn't even "vintage-computer" related... It's a Forth dialect that runs on my Win7 machine. I only post it here because of the "Forth" discussion. =)

 

BTW, the music is a song from our upcoming album. Song's called "Alabama Pine Cone". =)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOL8zQt2KSM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am really looking forward to TurboForth.... I spent about an hour today watching Mark Wills's demonstration at the TI Treff and it really gets the blood going. :) If I remember correctly, Tursi has agreed to include TF in the apps section of Classic99 (pulldown menu) once it's finished--- Willsy consented as well.... I say we all take a bit of time and do a TF demo contest.... Once I get Aperture onto cart (soon) I'll probably start gauging the interest in a TF demo contest. Forth looks weird, but man is it efficient!!!

 

I saw a quote the other day:

 

"C makes a programmer think he's found the best language ever... Forth makes a programmer believe he's the best programmer ever." :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"C makes a programmer think he's found the best language ever... Forth makes a programmer believe he's the best programmer ever." :)

 

So true.

 

He is the same program in Forth and Java (C syntax): Forth vs Java.zip

The description of what the program does: Son of Darts

 

The source size is the same. The java version is more readable, but Forth was fun to learn.

Edited by lucien2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Willsy, if you're lurking, maybe you could post some benchmark speed tests from some of the systems to this thread... it's kind of a catch-all Forth thread, but was originally intended for a Wycove thread... I think I'm the only person who even turns on Wycove, so it kind of morphed. =) I'd be interested in your Ace/TF tests!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again a bit off topic, but I was able to recently learn "spooling" in the Ace32 emulator. It's kind of like "paste" in Classic99, but more steps, slower, and less convenient. It's all Forth though, so I thought I'd post the short video I made here in case someone finds it interesting or useful.

 

As a side note, AceForth is basically a Forth79 dialect with multiple add-ons and enhancements. It's a nice dialect, really--- that is if you like Forth, and the "cool" factor of doing this for a 1k machine that loads only from tape. =)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89wKb8FPcy8

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Willsy, if you're lurking, maybe you could post some benchmark speed tests from some of the systems to this thread... it's kind of a catch-all Forth thread, but was originally intended for a Wycove thread... I think I'm the only person who even turns on Wycove, so it kind of morphed. =) I'd be interested in your Ace/TF tests!!

 

Well, I don't want to brag, but so far, TF has kicked the ass of every Forth that I've tried on the TI, and seriously kicks the CRAP out the Jupiter Ace, which was surprising (though I see that screen scrolling is VERY fast on the ACE, because the Z80 has direct access to screen RAM, and you can move scroll the screen with a single machine code LDIR instruction on the old Z80).

 

It seems to be about 50% faster than TI Forth and 25% faster than Wycove. However, with TI Forth, once you've loaded all the libraries to make it actually usable (e.g. the editor and stuff like that) you've only got around 8K for your program. There's more space in Wycove, I think around 12K. TF gives you around 31K the moment you switch it on.

 

That enough, bad boy, or do you want some more? :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ha! =) Well, I guess I'd say that's good. At some point (perhaps when you're finished) we should do a nice benchmark speed test video between TF, Wycove, TI, Ace, FIG (for the TI) and post it to youtube... I love seeing speed tests in video.

 

Glad to hear TF is rockin! This guy's eagerly waiting for it. =)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Willsy, if you're lurking, maybe you could post some benchmark speed tests from some of the systems to this thread... it's kind of a catch-all Forth thread, but was originally intended for a Wycove thread... I think I'm the only person who even turns on Wycove, so it kind of morphed. =) I'd be interested in your Ace/TF tests!!

 

Well, I don't want to brag, but so far, TF has kicked the ass of every Forth that I've tried on the TI, and seriously kicks the CRAP out the Jupiter Ace, which was surprising (though I see that screen scrolling is VERY fast on the ACE, because the Z80 has direct access to screen RAM, and you can move scroll the screen with a single machine code LDIR instruction on the old Z80).

 

It seems to be about 50% faster than TI Forth and 25% faster than Wycove. However, with TI Forth, once you've loaded all the libraries to make it actually usable (e.g. the editor and stuff like that) you've only got around 8K for your program. There's more space in Wycove, I think around 12K. TF gives you around 31K the moment you switch it on.

 

That enough, bad boy, or do you want some more? :P

 

Last night I saw the video where you did the 1000 primes on TF and it took about 2 seconds. I put the same code into ES forth on the Atari (English Software Forth) and the same code took 13 seconds to run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Willsy, if you're lurking, maybe you could post some benchmark speed tests from some of the systems to this thread... it's kind of a catch-all Forth thread, but was originally intended for a Wycove thread... I think I'm the only person who even turns on Wycove, so it kind of morphed. =) I'd be interested in your Ace/TF tests!!

 

Well, I don't want to brag, but so far, TF has kicked the ass of every Forth that I've tried on the TI, and seriously kicks the CRAP out the Jupiter Ace, which was surprising (though I see that screen scrolling is VERY fast on the ACE, because the Z80 has direct access to screen RAM, and you can move scroll the screen with a single machine code LDIR instruction on the old Z80).

 

It seems to be about 50% faster than TI Forth and 25% faster than Wycove. However, with TI Forth, once you've loaded all the libraries to make it actually usable (e.g. the editor and stuff like that) you've only got around 8K for your program. There's more space in Wycove, I think around 12K. TF gives you around 31K the moment you switch it on.

 

That enough, bad boy, or do you want some more? :P

 

Last night I saw the video where you did the 1000 primes on TF and it took about 2 seconds. I put the same code into ES forth on the Atari (English Software Forth) and the same code took 13 seconds to run.

 

Wow! That's quite surprising. To be fair to ES Forth, the 6502 has no hardware multiply - it's doing it the hard way.

 

It just goes to show though, what *could* have been done with our TIs back in the day. Even with it's bizarre architecture, the 4A is no slouch and was definitely up to the job of keeping up with it's contemporary peers. It was the stupid GPL experiment that killed it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It just goes to show though, what *could* have been done with our TIs back in the day. Even with it's bizarre architecture, the 4A is no slouch and was definitely up to the job of keeping up with it's contemporary peers. It was the stupid GPL experiment that killed it.

 

yeah... it really did. Over every other thing I wish was different about the bare console, just having a fast BASIC would have made such a world of difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1000 PRIMES test on Geneve's Forth+ ran in 5.2 seconds. Roughly a 57% slowdown from TF. And the Geneve is a superior machine?

 

Anyway, I'll be trying the 1000 PRIMES on Jupiter Ace tomorrow (assuming you haven't yet tested it, willsy)

 

Next time compare apples to apples. Run TF on the Geneve. Forth+ may be slow because one or more of its routines are not optimized.

 

(I expect TF will work on a Geneve so long as Mark uses the ROM keyboard routine versus rolling his own)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Next time compare apples to apples. Run TF on the Geneve. Forth+ may be slow because one or more of its routines are not optimized.

 

(I expect TF will work on a Geneve so long as Mark uses the ROM keyboard routine versus rolling his own)

 

Confirmed. TF uses the KSCAN routine in the TI Console ROM.

 

Mark

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...