BillC Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 The basic concept of powering the interface, for ergonomic reasons, provides no separate power supply. In 800XL, where there is no 5V on the PBI, it should be added using short, thick wires from the motherboard connected to the same pins, where the 5V is in the 600XL. For those, who cannot do this, or do not want to modify the computer, the final version of the PCB will be equipped with a separate power connector. Anyone who insists to connect the computer using a ribbon cable also should use the separate power supply. I would actually recommend anyone with one of these to use an additional external supply if using this with a HDD, unless their XL/XE power supply has already been replaced/upgraded for higher current draw, most stock XL/XE supplies are 1.5A, some are only 1A. The Toshiba 2.5" HDD in your pictures draws 0.7A, I have a 20GB IBM TravelStar which draws 1A and have seen the same rating for several others. Having HDDs like these draw power from an Atari system with a stock power supply is asking for trouble, especially if the power supply in question is an 'Ingot'. I do not see any issues using a stock power supply, other than the 'Ingot', with IDE/CF card adapters instead of the HDD though. Would power feed back into the computer when using this device with a 130XE/600XL/800XL with PBI +5V, preventing the computer from being shut down without disconnecting if the device is powered by a separate external supply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodByteXL Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 The basic concept of powering the interface, for ergonomic reasons, provides no separate power supply. In 800XL, where there is no 5V on the PBI, it should be added using short, thick wires from the motherboard connected to the same pins, where the 5V is in the 600XL. For those, who cannot do this, or do not want to modify the computer, the final version of the PCB will be equipped with a separate power connector. Anyone who insists to connect the computer using a ribbon cable also should use the separate power supply. I would actually recommend anyone with one of these to use an additional external supply if using this with a HDD, unless their XL/XE power supply has already been replaced/upgraded for higher current draw, most stock XL/XE supplies are 1.5A, some are only 1A. The Toshiba 2.5" HDD in your pictures draws 0.7A, I have a 20GB IBM TravelStar which draws 1A and have seen the same rating for several others. Having HDDs like these draw power from an Atari system with a stock power supply is asking for trouble, especially if the power supply in question is an 'Ingot'. I do not see any issues using a stock power supply, other than the 'Ingot', with IDE/CF card adapters instead of the HDD though. Would power feed back into the computer when using this device with a 130XE/600XL/800XL with PBI +5V, preventing the computer from being shut down without disconnecting if the device is powered by a separate external supply? A hard drive power supplied via XL/XE bus connector sometimes causes disturbance when it steps and/or starts spinning. That's why I changed to CF cards years ago and last autumn to SD cards. I wonder if there will be many users really attaching hard drives to it. It's too unconvenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Sort of what I was getting at with my question about the IDE connector. For instance, with my KMK/JZ and Transcend module, I still get color change on the screen from my 130XE when the drive writes. Not noticed on reads. Not a big deal. To fix this, I can use a separate power connector, to the drive or card/adapter but still coming from the XE. I first found this on the MyIDE. Add to that most modern drives have built-in "sleep" modes so if you don't use the drive for a minute or so, then the drive spins down and when you do want to use it, you must wait for spin up. So for me, it's cards or (my favorite) the Transcend "industrial" flash modules. But the modules are Female, so must be cable-adapted for the Plus 2.0. I'm not complaining. I'm happy to work with what is being offered for sale. But in a perfect world... Let's see, if I fold that cable, turn it 90 degrees, and reverse... ;) -Larry A hard drive power supplied via XL/XE bus connector sometimes causes disturbance when it steps and/or starts spinning. That's why I changed to CF cards years ago and last autumn to SD cards. I wonder if there will be many users really attaching hard drives to it. It's too unconvenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodByteXL Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 So for me, it's cards or (my favorite) the Transcend "industrial" flash modules. But the modules are Female, so must be cable-adapted for the Plus 2.0. That's what I thaught as well. do you think they can manage to survive or will they get killed like SSD, which would be my favorite. I'm not complaining. I'm happy to work with what is being offered for sale. But in a perfect world... Me too. It's a great interface and the best compromise one can think of. People with special needs should not complain but develop solutions ... Let's see, if I fold that cable, turn it 90 degrees, and reverse... ;) Ehm, it might help to use some "Lufthaken" and some "Luftkabel", which are said to be provided by Siemens and have been developed in the 19th century already. Those guarantee no need to be turned, twisted or drilled ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simius Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 The IOR and IOW lines to the IDE device are edge-triggered inputs, and, as such, are very sensitive to overshoot/ringing. What happens is the IDE logic sees two reads or writes for a single transfer. (lloking like a 'lost' byte) Like a lot of Atari problems, a matter of too fast for its own good. Besides good ground paths, you may get some relief by adding a series resistor to each circuit - 50 to 100 ohms. Connect it as close as you can to the source pin on the IC that drives the signal. You are absolutely right. Therefore, these resistors were post-mounted in prototype version 1.0 and assembled as standard in version 1.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 I take it this is getting brand new, speed-record breaking firmware. It indeed is getting a brand new firmware, yes. After supporting CHS for 16 years, I think I'll drop that and stick to the LBA. This probably means no drives produced before 1997. At the other hand, if anyone wants to use such a drive, the old ("legacy") drivers from KMK/JŻ IDE 1.x or IDEa will still work (these use CHS). I have not yet decided if the legacy support is to be included in the new ROM. If it is, it will "only" be important for partitions with 128- and 256-byte sectors. The 512-byte sector partitions are 100% backwards compatible. This is so because I have decided to map 1:1 logical to physical sectors (as warerat has done in the new MIO). 16 years ago it was unacceptable for me - my 2,5-inch disk had only 30 MB and with mapping sectors 1:1 I would have to tradeoff a half of its capacity. This difficulty is now mostly gone. Also, the new firmware will be "safer", i.e. it will detect transmission errors caused by host adapter malfunction (noises on the PBI bus etc.). This is done at no speed tradeoff. At any case, the interface's internal ROM is flashable, so anyone can now experiment with his own PBI ROM code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender II Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 I noticed a comment in the new Pre-Order thread that SDX functionality only works on the XE series. Is that correct? Is there a reason why? SDX on-board is not active on the XL series, because I didn't think that it's needed at all. Adapter isn't connected to the cartridge slot, unlike on the XE series. Furthermore, if SDX is on, there is inevitable conflict with any cartridge connected to its slot or built inside, due to lack of some signals present on the cartridge slot, but not present on the PBI. If it's important for you and accept the possibility of such conflict, I can make SDX active on the XL series. This shouldn't be a very big trouble. Would it be possible to have a switch to make SDX on-board active for the XL series? Since SDX is enabled on the XE version how does that affect the use of the cart socket on your board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simius Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Switch which already exist will working regardless of machine type. It can, if it comes to accuracy, only deactivate SDX. Turn to the "on" position is not enough to activate SDX. It is also necessary to set appropriate bit in control register. When SDX is enabled on the XE series, cart socket on board is inactive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Switch which already exist will working regardless of machine type. It can, if it comes to accuracy, only deactivate SDX. Turn to the "on" position is not enough to activate SDX. It is also necessary to set appropriate bit in control register. When SDX is enabled on the XE series, cart socket on board is inactive. The cartridge slot on this device needs follow the same rules as the cartridge slot on an XL/XE with IntSDX, which basically duplicates operation of the pass-through slot on the original SDX cartridge. The difference is that the SDX cartridge doesn't need to pass the signals through when disabled, you just remove the cartridge when its use isn't wanted. IntSDX intercepts the original S4'/S5'/RD4/RD5 signals, when SDX is disabled these signals are connected to the cartridge port so that a cartridge can still be used, I have included the IntSDX schematic below. When SDX is active I believe these connections to the cartridge slot are under its control. The simplest method I can think of to enable the SDX/cartridge port on this device with an XL is by plugging an adapter into the XL cartridge slot and connecting any signals missing on the PBI by cable to the device. This would require making the adapter and installing a header for a cable on the device. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) At any case, the interface's internal ROM is flashable, so anyone can now experiment with his own PBI ROM code. That sounds like my cup of tea. The software error detection sounds awfully clever... I assume - since the drivers are backwards compatible - that the partition table layout hasn't changed? Edited April 2, 2011 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) At any case, the interface's internal ROM is flashable, so anyone can now experiment with his own PBI ROM code. That sounds like my cup of tea. I'll also probably release a file, which you flash into a flashcart (like Maxflash), and insert the cart it whenever you need to erase the PBI ROM contents (because if some faulty PBI code hangs during initialization, there is hardly any other way to recover). I assume - since the drivers are backwards compatible - that the partition table layout hasn't changed? The partition table layout has changed internally, partition parameters (starting sector and size) are now all 32-bit. The backward compatibility is maintained, because the firmware converts the old partition table (if detected) into the new layout. Of course, the same way it can convert any other partition format (like a PC one), and I am planning to adopt it. Edited April 2, 2011 by drac030 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 If you set up your system with an option for a 400/800 OS, that will not hang on PBI code. (since it never tries the PBI hardware) Then, you can re-load the PBI code from there. Bob At any case, the interface's internal ROM is flashable, so anyone can now experiment with his own PBI ROM code. That sounds like my cup of tea. I'll also probably release a file, which you flash into a flashcart (like Maxflash), and insert the cart it whenever you need to erase the PBI ROM contents (because if some faulty PBI code hangs during initialization, there is hardly any other way to recover). I assume - since the drivers are backwards compatible - that the partition table layout hasn't changed? The partition table layout has changed internally, partition parameters (starting sector and size) are now all 32-bit. The backward compatibility is maintained, because the firmware converts the old partition table (if detected) into the new layout. Of course, the same way it can convert any other partition format (like a PC one), and I am planning to adopt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 If you set up your system with an option for a 400/800 OS, that will not hang on PBI code. (since it never tries the PBI hardware) Then, you can re-load the PBI code from there. Yes, if one cares to install the old OS in XL/XE just for that. Or have a Turbo Freezer 2005. But I was speaking about less or more standard Ataris (like mine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 N00b question: isn't it possible to design the board to have it flat behind an XL instead of standing or connected with a ribbon cable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 N00b question: isn't it possible to design the board to have it flat behind an XL instead of standing or connected with a ribbon cable? Read the last 6 pages of this thread.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiroProX Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I would certainly have to use a ribbon cable, the PBI I "kludged" into my 1200XL is an IDC-50 header. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 N00b question: isn't it possible to design the board to have it flat behind an XL instead of standing or connected with a ribbon cable? Read the last 6 pages of this thread.. You're right but before posting I quickly read the 4 (not 6) pages of the thread (f.e. I found your design perplexities) and I've found nothing. I have to do my homework better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Phil - Ken has some interesting and informative information about this interface in the "News" section of his website if you haven't already seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Phil - Ken has some interesting and informative information about this interface in the "News" section of his website if you haven't already seen it. That's some awesome F-1200XL there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Heh... the ironic thing is the 1200XL doesn't even have a parallel bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Heh... the ironic thing is the 1200XL doesn't even have a parallel bus. Mine does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Heh... the ironic thing is the 1200XL doesn't even have a parallel bus. Mine does Yeah mine too, but ironic point taken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Heh... the ironic thing is the 1200XL doesn't even have a parallel bus. Mine does Yeah mine too, but ironic point taken SHOW-OFFs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Heh... the ironic thing is the 1200XL doesn't even have a parallel bus. Mine does Yeah mine too, but ironic point taken SHOW-OFFs! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Heh... the ironic thing is the 1200XL doesn't even have a parallel bus. Mine does Yeah mine too, but ironic point taken SHOW-OFFs! LOL Mine doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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