Cupcakus Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 I don't know if those shots are possible with flicker :-) Who is David Winter anyway? If you read his Pong-Story even that is highly suspect :-) He gives credit to Ralph Baer for inventing the video game, when he didn't even build a video game machine until 1966, almost 14 years after Tennis for two. But because Ralph Baer claims to have thought of the idea in 1951 he is the inventor :-) Silly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Slocum Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 I think it would definitely have to be a combo of player and playfield, but I think it has to be coded to see if it's really possible. The details and timing are too tricky (for me at least) to work out without programming. I noticed the dithering on the first shot too, and that's little strange. But it may have just come from the program he used to convert the PCX files to GIFs. It's also a little weird that the shots are significantly taller than what Z26 generates. They appear to be padded on the top and bottom. But I can't find any problems with the cube layout. There are no extra squares of any color or pieces that shouldn't exist. If it is a fake, he was really careful. Also, the longest arrow+text at the bottom is exactly 48 pixels as it should be. -Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyXB Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 It is possible too see a scan from the cartridge or Board or what this is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 ... and here's the amazing solve option. On my 2600, the game would automatically rotate the cube so as to finish the game. Under Z26, that was manually done, yet I don't recall how I got the automatic solve to work. That could be an A/B option, so gimme some time to dig my 2600 out of my attic and I'll give you more infos. Here is something weird, he says it works on his 2600 but he hasn't gotten it from the attic yet. What is that, magic ? I am curious to see more information. ... smells like Airworld ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Slocum Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 It's pretty easy to capture a frame at a time and combine them in Photoshop to show all flickering elements in a game. I've used that to get good screenshots of my homebrews that use the flickery Stellar Track text code. -Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupcakus Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 I noticed that inconsistancy too :-) but I ignored it as maybe he's had this proto for some time and "remembers" playing it a while ago... still highly suspect though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Here is something weird, he says it works on his 2600 but he hasn't gotten it from the attic yet. What is that, magic ? I am curious to see more information. ... smells like Airworld ![/size] I have more faith in this one than I do the Airworld proto, actually. Some of the information doesn't make sense but at least it's not completely unrealistic to think this was in development. Obviously they were not opposed to releasing a Rubik's Cube game, since I have the silver label of that, and when they couldn't work out the licensing they changed it slightly and made Atari Video Cube, and I have the silver label of that too. So why isn't it possible to think that when they were having licensing problems, they switched from the expensive to develop 3-D to the simple to develop 2-D, hoping that if they saved money there the licensing would still be worked out in the end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Monkey Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Could it be possible to know whether David overlaid 2 or more screenshots to obtain the final ones? If not.. then the game must be flicker free... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasty Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Who is David Winter anyway? If you read his Pong-Story even that is highly suspect :-) Well, AFAIK the site has been up for ages and there's even my PC version of pong posted there since long ago (http://www.pong-story.com/pcpong.htm, look for PONG1.2) If I remember well, I've heard from David once or twice when I asked him to replace the binary to the above mentioned Pong version... all went fine! Dunno this time, thou Rasty.- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 And has anybody checked, if the patterns are possible with a real Rubik's Cube As someone who can still solve the Rubik's Cube (yeah I was a geek kid ) looking at those picture.. it seems fine enough to me. Although at first though I was thrown off by this pic: As it initially seemed there there were 5 corners for the orange color! But then I looked closer and I guess there are two very similar colors there.. orange and a mustard-ish color. So it does look ok. I guess I could take a cube and try to recreate some of the patterns.. if only I had a cube here at work Of course however, if you peel off the stickers you can stick them back on in any pattern you want, but I digress... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Who is David Winter anyway? A David Winter exists. If you google for "David Winter" AND Atari you e.g. find this: http://www.atarihq.com/rgvc/profile/david_winter.html http://www.myatari.net/issues/jun2002/pong.htm IMO it's safe to say: The man is not a fake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupcakus Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Who is David Winter anyway? A David Winter exists. If you google for "David Winter" AND Atari you e.g. find this: http://www.atarihq.com/rgvc/profile/david_winter.html http://www.myatari.net/issues/jun2002/pong.htm IMO it's safe to say: The man is not a fake. Ha ha ha ha ha! Wayyyy too much time on your hands :-) So who's gonna bug him for proof? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 e seems much more reputable than the "Airworld" guy. I wish he'd just dump the ROM or AT LEAST bring it to CGE for testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEBRO Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Could it be done without PF graphics or player graphics? Could it have been done with just the background color and self modifing code like in Gene Johannsen's post to the Stella list. There he displays a 8x6 grid of colors that cycle randomly by only using the background color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 I heard some time ago that Peter Niday programmed a version that preceded and differed from the released version (which Peter didn’t do), so this may be it. That's all the info I have on it in my notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Why not at least add something like this to the site ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Since the ROM is dumped already and works with z26, the easiest way for a proof without giving away the whole binary, would be to use the trace mode of the emulator and post the (zipped!) output of the display kernel (lines ~30 ..160) here or e.g. to me . Then it would be quite "easy" to find out how the display kernel works. Maybe not every detail, but the basic principle should be recognizable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyXB Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Why not at least add something like this to the site ? <Pic> WOW, but its fake or I wrong. But please a better scan next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Oberhäuser Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Well, since David Winter is a very reliable and trustworthy person (and the master of all pong systems) I strongly doubt that this game is hoax/fake/whatever... Just my 2 Euro cent. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyXB Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Sorry, I mean only the picture from CPUWIZ, that this is a fake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 OK...I'm going to post this once, because my predictions are usually wrong... The proto is as real as the photo. There ya go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc--- Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 I know David Winter pretty well, I don't think that this proto is a fake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 I know David Winter pretty well, I don't think that this proto is a fake. I totally agree, David and I have corresponded quite a lot over the years when he was initially getting things together for his site and I believe this to be the real-deal. Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.winter Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Hi guys, A few things in this message. 1) Rumors & such As a long time video game collector, I totally understand that you doubt about the existence of this prototype, and I should thank you for doing so because it shows how much interest there is in the 2600 community. So thanks in some way guys. I also discovered in this discussion that this game displayed more colors than possible ? Well, what you see on my screen-shots IS what I captured on my PC running Z26. There is NOTHING changed in the screenshots. I only took the 320x200 bitmaps to do quick captures and provide information faster. Those who know me can trust me: this is NOT a fake. The thing is, I absolutely HATE those lame ebay resellers who abuse of people's possessions, and enjoy reselling what they buy to make more money on people's back. For this reason, I don't want to hear about any ebay resale of this game. I paid to acquire this prototype, and therefore, don't see why some people would give themselves the right to "short-circuit" me and make the money I deserve. As I said, I WILL do cartridge because I want to share with you the interest we have on this game, but this requires some permissions (copyrights, etc), some investment in cartridge cases and such, and this will take some time. I WILL try to provide some proofs of authenticity to 2600 programers, but will NOT provide any binary image. Please understand this. 2) Hardware The prototype came as a small 2-eprom board holding two 2716 eproms. There is NO sarah chip on the board. Just 1 or 2 extra TTL chips for the chip selection (lower 2K / higher 2K). So, maybe this game wil let you discover another trick to display more colors ??? I hope so !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 hmmmm, David ya know I was like totally backing you on this, but.... seeing that Avatar... He's a madman, run!!! Just Joking dude, Glad to see you reading the thread and responding to people's inquiries. If you're considering making carts you should seriously speak with Alex and Albert here at Atariage, you're not going to find a pair of more honest and helpful people in the community and go look at their store, they've got cartridge making down to an art, the boards, cases and especially those labels!!! They'll do such a game total justice in a reproduction-release. Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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