UKRetrogamer Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Well, I dug my last remaining 256MB Transcend card out and encountered the "Incompatible media" error. <snip> This is functionally identical to the old Phi2 hardware error we're so used to. Excellent research. Can this be fixed by updating the driver or can we conclude Transcend CF cards are a non-starter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRetrogamer Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 It would appear NOT ALL Transcend media refuses to work with SIDE. Today I received 2 x 256MB Transcend CF cards and BOTH FDISK and FORMAT flawlessly and work in SDX and SIDE loader mode without problems. They also report as "Transcend 256MB" on the SDX boot-screen. The 64MB Transcend one which reports as "Incompatible Media" is labelled as CF80. The 256MB ones which DO work, don't have this extra marking. Maybe a compatibility matrix is in order. Anyone want to set-out a template for information required to make the matrix work? (Manufacturer, Product code (if known), Capacity, Purchased From, Price) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRetrogamer Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 ...Incidentally, I've found I can go from DOS to the SIDE Loader without touching the switch simply by typing "COLD /C [RETURN]" from a SpartaDOS X prompt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Hopefully the Transcend 2GB modules work, as I just bought another 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) Can this be fixed by updating the driver or can we conclude Transcend CF cards are a non-starter? I was waiting for other technical contributions before replying, but I'll now say that I would tend not to bodge the driver to deal with such transmission errors. We already saw such a driver in the MyIDE package which performs extensive transmission error verification to overcome hardware problems. Some simple and inexpensive checks may be put in place (such as ensuring DRQ is low after a sector has been read), but my testing yesterday suggested this would be a waste of time and space in this instance, since even if transmission errors are detected, they are consistent and do not disappear on the next retry. I believe Spookt is sending Candle one of the offending cards, so if there's any kind of firmware or logic issue, I guess we'll know when that testing is complete. These kinds of problems are hardly unusual on the A8, and when you look at similar alternatives, SIDE is still a very stable and compatible interface. It would appear NOT ALL Transcend media refuses to work with SIDE. Today I received 2 x 256MB Transcend CF cards and BOTH FDISK and FORMAT flawlessly and work in SDX and SIDE loader mode without problems. They also report as "Transcend 256MB" on the SDX boot-screen. The 64MB Transcend one which reports as "Incompatible Media" is labelled as CF80. The 256MB ones which DO work, don't have this extra marking. Maybe a compatibility matrix is in order. Anyone want to set-out a template for information required to make the matrix work? (Manufacturer, Product code (if known), Capacity, Purchased From, Price) Personally I agree that a compatibility list is needed, but I don't doubt that Candle would rather tackle the problem at source so that the problem cards actually work. I suggest we wait a short while until he has tested for ringing, etc, with the proper equipment. My 256MB Transcend card which does NOT work is also labelled as "80x". Interesting. I've tried drivers which set various PIO transfer rates (in any case all far faster than the A8 can keep up with) and it makes no difference at all. These problem cards - do they work with SIDE's loader? ...Incidentally, I've found I can go from DOS to the SIDE Loader without touching the switch simply by typing "COLD /C [RETURN]" from a SpartaDOS X prompt. Yes - this is because the loader is essentially an emulated piggy-back cartridge. You should able be able to obtain the loader simply by typing "CAR" at the SDX prompt. I'm busy testing this capability further at the moment, and it should eventually permit the delivery of a 256KB build of the GUI right on the SIDE cart alongside SDX, RTC and the hard disk. The only additional hardware requirement will be 128KB or more of RAM. I believe this to be the smallest imaginable delivery option for such a large range of facilities (HDD, SDX, RTC and 256KB flash cart). Edited October 5, 2011 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I believe Spookt is sending Candle one of the offending cards, so if there's any kind of firmware or logic issue, I guess we'll know when that testing is complete. Yes, it's in the envelope but not yet in the mail My 256MB Transcend card which does NOT work is also labelled as "80x". Interesting. I've tried drivers which set various PIO transfer rates (in any case all far faster than the A8 can keep up with) and it makes no difference at all. My cards seem to be identical then since they are marked 80x. These problem cards - do they work with SIDE's loader? Good point I'll give it whirl in a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 These problem cards - do they work with SIDE's loader? Good point I'll give it whirl in a minute. Nope, dropped a load of exe's into the FAT32 partition on the card and nothing shows in the menu. Do the same on the SandDisk card and voila, gaming goodness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Nope, dropped a load of exe's into the FAT32 partition on the card and nothing shows in the menu. Do the same on the SandDisk card and voila, gaming goodness OK - thanks for testing that. Hopefully that demonstrates that the SDX driver isn't at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbringer Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Speaking of drivers..... Where are they for this?!?!? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002FHEQG/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=atariage&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=B0002FHEQG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Heh... if someone wants to mail one over here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Nope, dropped a load of exe's into the FAT32 partition on the card and nothing shows in the menu. Do the same on the SandDisk card and voila, gaming goodness OK - thanks for testing that. Hopefully that demonstrates that the SDX driver isn't at fault. The Apple II CFFA card underwent some revisions so that CF cards with sensitive timing would work with it. I would guess that's the issue here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRetrogamer Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 The Apple II CFFA card underwent some revisions so that CF cards with sensitive timing would work with it.I would guess that's the issue here. That reminds me, I've not checked on the status of my CFFA3000 order recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 The Apple II CFFA card underwent some revisions so that CF cards with sensitive timing would work with it. I would guess that's the issue here. Curious question from a less-technical view: Do SD cards have these same issues? Thx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 SIDE page updated with API docs and APT specification: http://www.atari8.co.uk/side/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 The Apple II CFFA card underwent some revisions so that CF cards with sensitive timing would work with it. I would guess that's the issue here. Curious question from a less-technical view: Do SD cards have these same issues? Thx. SD typically has two serial shift registers and a clock signal to convert from parallel at the computer to the serial I/O of the SD card. Microcontrollers have been interfaced to SD just by using built in ports and turning pins on and off. A simple bit banger interface if you will. Other than that, SD works in a similar manner as CF. Commands are used to read, write, etc... Both CF and SD cards have handshaking signals. If and interface has spurious signals, improper timing, whatever, some cards may not work. This is a by the seat of his pants project and the designer doing the best he can with the info he has. If there is a problem with some CF cards it's probably the interface, but there is a chance that some older cards may not meet specs, however it is NOT a problem indicative to CF cards in general. Just delaying a signal slightly so that other signals have time to settle may be all that's required to fix the problem. As long as the control logic sits in a PLD of some sort, it shouldn't be difficult to correct. And as long as you use CF cards that are known to work, it's not an issue anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thgill Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Are any of these still available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Union NJ Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 It would appear NOT ALL Transcend media refuses to work with SIDE. Today I received 2 x 256MB Transcend CF cards and BOTH FDISK and FORMAT flawlessly and work in SDX and SIDE loader mode without problems. They also report as "Transcend 256MB" on the SDX boot-screen. The 64MB Transcend one which reports as "Incompatible Media" is labelled as CF80. The 256MB ones which DO work, don't have this extra marking. Maybe a compatibility matrix is in order. Anyone want to set-out a template for information required to make the matrix work? (Manufacturer, Product code (if known), Capacity, Purchased From, Price) I'll be able to test this same CF as soon as I get my side.. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I have a bunch of Transcend 2GB 80X cards to test - hope they work, as they are currently the only CF cards I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 When remaining SIDE cartridges will be shipped? But I have no hurry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 When remaining SIDE cartridges will be shipped? But I have no hurry! My question too. But I like to hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 When remaining SIDE cartridges will be shipped? But I have no hurry! I have just received a Google Checkout message: my SIDE cart has been sent today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaxon Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Yop, becouse i start posting SIDE abroad. Today only 23 SIDE , and for monday is ready next 20, all be confirmed via mail or google checkout. Anyway, i start made second bath, oly 30 , so preorder page is active again, http://www.zaxon.eu/side.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRetrogamer Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Anyway, i start made second bath, oly 30 , so preorder page is active again,http://www.zaxon.eu/side.html Excellent. Just ordered a second one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+rdemming Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Yop, becouse i start posting SIDE abroad. Today only 23 SIDE , and for monday is ready next 20, all be confirmed via mail or google checkout. Great, I can't wait! If mine is in the next shipment, is the ZX-Spectrum DivIDE interface I ordered finished as well? Then I should dig in my storage room to find my old ZX-Spectrum. Hope it still works :-p Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Yop, becouse i start posting SIDE abroad. Today only 23 SIDE , and for monday is ready next 20, all be confirmed via mail or google checkout. Did the Monday batch get sent yet? I haven't received an email saying so... Thanks, Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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