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Wich one of these two Prince of Persia you prefer?


José Pereira

Sprites and colours&luminances (can be others) apart, what of these two Rocks type you think look better designed/better looking:  

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  1. 1. Sprites and colours&luminances apart(can be others), what of these two Rocks type you think look better designed/better looking:

    • PC original looking
      6
    • C64 remake looking
      33

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It's about 150 unique chars.

 

Created with G2F, 49 chars in use, so plenty left for animations.

Yes, a different style, but if you examine http://www.hardcoreg...nceofpersia.htm (insightful), nearly each platform depicts things a little bit different - so I would go this way...

post-7778-0-66581000-1319588138_thumb.png

Edited by Irgendwer
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That it looks good, it looks... indeed very good and using A8 DLIs/Pallete, good!...

 

But even with 49chars you wouldn't get enought chars for all the moving stuff:

-> Most larger 2guys soft sprites that can be on the screen at the same time:

post-6517-0-48139200-1319591613.gifpost-6517-0-25482100-1319591497.gif

30 chars + 32chars

 

gfxs: 49

+

guys:62

________

= 111

no shifting

 

 

With shifting more:

prince moves all 4ways

Enemy only moves horizontal (normally) but also can loose the battle and fall.

Simple to see that the 17chars left aren't enough

 

Now add the falling/destroy floor that need unique chars... bottles that can be on the same screen as Enemys, Floor and Top Blades/Swords...

There's no way to fit this in just only one charset.

 

Would be only possible if at least, one of the guys were PMs only and even with that I have my doubts.

 

 

 

You have there the same basis as C64 in using the light Gray/White that can be used the same way as I and Popmilo are doing but you'll always need soft sprites + PMs overlays.

Edited by José Pereira
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But even with 49chars you wouldn't get enought chars for all the moving stuff:

...

 

Please read my previous posts!

* prince is PMG only

* possible use of different charset (DLI) in opponent areas

* animation data may be copied to chars - chars may not exchanged

 

...

but you'll always need soft sprites + PMs overlays.

 

* I would abstain from PM overlays for softsprites

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But even with 49chars you wouldn't get enought chars for all the moving stuff:

...

 

Please read my previous posts!

* prince is PMG only

 

 

O.k. and you think you can get it in just PMG?

Yes you can, but you have to reduce some frames from 24pixels into 20pixels

And all the four A8 PMs. are lost because you'll need to put them in Multicolour Mode.

 

 

Question now: How will you get the colours for the Enemy?

You need at least two (Skin and Clothe).... thinking that your Sword comes from that Light Gray/White of the PFs.

(this question doesn't apply because you aren't using PMs overlays ;) )

 

Another thing: You still need to Mask PMs and Mask PFs.

-> Prince: Mask PMs.

-> Enemy Mask PFs. and sure colour need to also use PMs. (that you haven't) and also Mask PFs with PMs.

(Work doubled, but also here, it doesn't apply because you are also not using PMs overlays ;) )

 

 

But sure you have some thing in your head... a miracle probably, to get the kid just PMG and still colour the Enemy ;)

Waiting to see :)

Edited by José Pereira
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It's about 150 unique chars.

 

Created with G2F, 49 chars in use, so plenty left for animations.

Yes, a different style, but if you examine http://www.hardcoreg...nceofpersia.htm (insightful), nearly each platform depicts things a little bit different - so I would go this way...

 

 

 

Using PM graphics only for the prince? Funny.

 

Remembering Yie AR ... 320K and only some small animations were there. All the different shaping... and still no background handling or masking there.

 

Charmode is useless for games like this, and far too much transitions on the screen.

 

Not sure if Popmilo will endup with a proper working softwaresprite routine. Doing this in charmode will exceed the gameplay. You know, a joystick request has to be faster than once per second ;)

 

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It's about 150 unique chars.

 

Created with G2F, 49 chars in use, so plenty left for animations.

Yes, a different style, but if you examine http://www.hardcoreg...nceofpersia.htm (insightful), nearly each platform depicts things a little bit different - so I would go this way...

 

As a compromise it looks ok but I don't think there's any need for losing/changing parts of the backgrounds AND removing parts of the map (columns etc) so you can draw the opponent in chars. BTW, the opponent DOES fall down levels and can swap screens and follow you around so you'd have to clear a larger area of colums/any other interfering chars on the screen.

 

If you really think it'll fit in an unexpanded machine (something me and Ste were working towards on the C64 when Mr SID showed us he was 1/2 way through his version but I'm not sure how much anyone on here has looked into) then of course lower graphics overheads are a help but if not, may as well go for the best look possible and use more chars from the beginning.

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O.k. and you think you can get it in just PMG?

 

I wrote that.

 

Yes you can, but you have to reduce some frames from 24pixels into 20pixels

And all the four A8 PMs. are lost because you'll need to put them in Multicolour Mode.

 

No. We have the possibility to change size of player/missles and I'm quite sure

we don't need multi-colour mode anyway with DLI colour changes about 4 coloured PMG objects.

 

Point me to "what you think is the most difficult 'prince animation frame'" and I may show you.

 

Question now: How will you get the colours for the Enemy?

 

Playfield colours, if no torch is displayed the 5th colour is free (even for DLI changes).

Look at 'Karatheka', players have only playfield colours and this was/is a IMHO an entertaining game.

 

Another thing: You still need to Mask PMs and Mask PFs.

-> Prince: Mask PMs.

-> Enemy Mask PFs. and sure colour need to also use PMs. (that you haven't) and also Mask PFs with PMs.

 

PM masking is quicker because less data is involved.

And don't think in strict C64 conversion dimensions. Like mentioned, redesigning opponent areas may be helpful.

If more characters are used for the opponent than for the background stripe, you could even shift the background chars

and fine scroll the opponent.

 

Waiting to see :)

 

Don't expect to much, I'm not in the mood to convert this game.

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You know, looking at my gfx and sound "experiments". I'd code the full game, and right after finishing it, someone would aks for a proof...

Surely the proof would be the game you'd just finished coding??? :)

 

I have immens doubts ;)

Have a look at he latest pics: Right after I showed the 100% solution of the text screen , they started to talk some nonsense about using just hires.

O my latest sound example. Using really 2 16 bit resolution-using channels and the basses were shape corrected (as RMT can do). It's just like POKEY has up to 6 channels. .... no reaction there.

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Playfield colours, if no torch is displayed the 5th colour is free (even for DLI changes).

Look at 'Karatheka', players have only playfield colours and this was/is a IMHO an entertaining game.

 

You're PFs. colours seem have this distribution:

BACKGR.- Black

PF0 and PF1- White and Dark Gray

PF2- Blue

PF3- Torches (and all the other DLIs. stuff)

 

Now this picture of the Enemy:

post-6517-0-95790600-1319616172_thumb.gif

Even if Enemy use the PFs. colour you would have:

-> PFs.- White and Blue

 

Now it starts the troubles:

-> PF2 it's on the Blue clothe colour and how will you get the Skin as PF3 (colour clash)?

 

-> Enemy falls and he has a flame on the the under floor:

You had the Enemy skin using PF3 colour, how to?

(don't show the flames when he is falling?)

 

 

Next I'll show you the Kid...

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Playfield colours, if no torch is displayed the 5th colour is free (even for DLI changes).

Look at 'Karatheka', players have only playfield colours and this was/is a IMHO an entertaining game.

 

You're Your PFs. colours seem have this distribution:

BACKGR.- Black

PF0 and PF1- White and Dark Gray

PF2- Blue

PF3- Torches (and all the other DLIs. stuff)

 

Now this picture of the Enemy:

post-6517-0-95790600-1319616172_thumb.gif

Even if Enemy use the PFs, colour you would have:

-> PFs.- White and Blue

 

Now it starts the troubles:

-> PF2 it's on the Blue clothe colour and how will you get the Skin as PF3 (colour clash)?

 

-> Enemy falls and he has a flame on the the under floor:

You had the Enemy skin using PF3 colour, how to?

(don't show the flames when he is falling?)

 

 

Next I'll show you the Kid...

 

Poor enemy , gets an hot back there ;)

To be honest, a falling guy, could fall without any background handling, simple charmode movement would do fair enough.

Edited by emkay
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Converted 'your' frame04.bmp - that was easy. (I coloured the eye blue to be better visible.)

Attached the G2F PMG definition.

Also the other frames are far away from being 'impossible'. Maybe some pixel have to change, but after a quick look even this seems not necessary. Hope you have better luck when rating the machine abilities in other projects...

 

BTW: Yes, masking forbids the use of PMG horizontal scaling - so I abstained from using it.

frame04.zip

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Converted 'your' frame04.bmp - that was easy. (I coloured the eye blue to be better visible.)

Attached the G2F PMG definition.

Also the other frames are far away from being 'impossible'. Maybe some pixel have to change, but after a quick look even this seems not necessary. Hope you have better luck when rating the machine abilities in other projects...

 

BTW: Yes, masking forbids the use of PMG horizontal scaling - so I abstained from using it.

 

 

Ah! Ah!...

Do you think I am stupid or what?

And why do you used frame4 and not other?

 

Because you have the White right part of trousers using the same Player as the Sword...

And now, if you have the sword at the same lines of the trousers?

And now go telling a coder to do that xPos change of the PMs (that it isn't even possible for all the frames)

 

 

And I hope you in the future you will be more honest in the things you choose to show.

I am not here to fool others and just show concrete facts in 200 or 300 different frames that you simply choose one.

 

This is not a competition and I think I am on a good way but I'll take some of my time and would show you where you're wrong.

And even if the Prince works like this then the Enemy will never work as a soft sprite only...

We are talking of having the real PoP not a version where you, for example, to have all that nice colouring remove Enemy colouring and more, will remove Pillars, some gfxs,... to have an enemy.

 

Mine is possible with all the gfxs. and the all game map, exactly like it is, and the same for the sprites.

Me and Popmilo are slowly going on, but at least we start with something concrete and all the frames, Masks, gfxs, sprites discussed a find a way to go.

If it will work or not? You'll have to wait but I think we have good possibilities in suceeding.

 

 

I also advise you that on your next A8 projects you first get all sprites frames, all gfxs., game map, play the game and see it lots of times on YouTube in all the versions (if it's a conversion from another platform(s)) ;) .

I never post screens nor ideas untill I see all the stuff and some questions to some guys that can advise me on the right way to go.

This is the difference between us...

:)

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post-6517-0-51583400-1319635993_thumb.png

You have all the PMs on the guy and are even changing xPos on one of them to get it possible (and that is always a hard thing to code, but that's what you choosed).

Now what's your solution for colouring the Enemy, mask it with the Pillar and not have PF3 if even you're using PF3 in one of it's colours?

Edited by José Pereira
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And why do you used frame4 and not other?

 

"frame4.bmp" is shown as attachment, I thought you would like to have that - my time is limited.

 

Because you have the White right part of trousers using the same Player as the Sword...

And now, if you have the sword at the same lines of the trousers?

 

Then normally the head isn't on the same line?

 

And now go telling a coder to do that xPos change of the PMs (that it isn't even possible for all the frames)

 

Do you have seen games from Activision? Where a single player is quite colourful by DLI changes?

It doesn't matter if you change a colour register or position register - expert...

 

 

 

And I hope you in the future you will be more honest in the things you choose to show.

I am not here to fool others and just show concrete facts in 200 or 300 different frames that you simply choose one.

 

What was not honest?

 

 

And even if the Prince works like this then the Enemy will never work as a soft sprite only...

 

Now what? Does it work or not? BTW: I never told anything about the enemy being a softsprite.

 

 

We are talking of having the real PoP not a version where you, for example, to have all that nice colouring remove Enemy colouring and more, will remove Pillars, some gfxs,... to have an enemy.

 

Best wishes that a real version becomes real someday.

 

 

I also advise you that on your next A8 projects you first get all sprites frames, all gfxs., game map, play the game and see it lots of times on YouTube in all the versions (if it's a conversion from another platform(s)) ;) .

:thumbsup:

What about unique, creative projects?. I thief cannot imagine to buy things...

 

 

I never post screens nor ideas untill I see all the stuff and some questions to some guys that can advise me on the right way to go.

This is the difference between us...

:)

 

I hope there is some more difference. Calm down, I do not plan to provide concurrency 'game projects' this way - and I have a reliable coder.

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post-6517-0-51583400-1319635993_thumb.png

You have all the PMs on the guy and are even changing xPos on one of them to get it possible (and that is always a hard thing to code, but that's what you choosed).

Now what's your solution for colouring the Enemy, mask it with the Pillar and not have PF3 if even you're using PF3 in one of it's colours?

 

Sorry, José, conversation is over.

 

(Just a last hint for you: DLI xpos change is a totally different thing than xpos on scanline change for PMG reuse. Guess how the baddies are created in 'Miner2049er'.)

Edited by Irgendwer
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