rockman_x_2002 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So if I was Farsight, I would make sure their business model first focused on new tables to make sure they make money and stay solvent. Then add the tables from the other games later on. Otherwise, people who have been buying these other collections may hold off and then Farsight won't have money to get to the good tables. Well I know they've said that, at least for the iOS and Android versions, the table prices will vary. I know they've said that one table each month will be a special $0.99 offer, and the other tables will range from $1.99 to $3.99. Now what I wouldn't mind seeing is $3.99 for new, licensed tables (such as Ripley's Believe It Or Not!, The Simpsons, The Addams Family, etc.), $2.99 for new tables that have never been featured before, $1.99 for classic tables that were in the previous two collections, and one of those classics for $0.99 cents. That seems to be how they did it this month, and I wouldn't mind if they continued to do that. After all, $10 a month for four new tables, each and every month, is actually not too bad a deal. I'll take all they can give me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 So when will Xbox 360 be getting this? I hope will be one of the games we can get. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammR25 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 So when will Xbox 360 be getting this? I hope will be one of the games we can get. They're saying the end of March. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammR25 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Also looks like people going to the Texas Pinball Festival in DFW in late March will be able to see the official debut of the console versions. http://texaspinball.com/tpf/pinball-arcade-debuts-at-the-texas-pinball-festival/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_lynx1989 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) I just hope this can be grabbed off PSN for my PSPs too.That would really rock,as I have the UMDs and the DLs of PHOF and Pinball Heroes already. Will be great to have my own arcade of 50 or 60 Bally,Gottlieb,Stern and Williams tables! I'd like to see other makers added too -- Zacarria,Sega,Chicago Coin,Data East,Sonic and etc. Would be cool. Edited February 19, 2012 by chris_lynx1989 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 So when will Xbox 360 be getting this? I hope will be one of the games we can get. They're saying the end of March. http://www.facebook....324584767562590 Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_lynx1989 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 It was supposed to be launch time or following it for Vita.We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlysublime Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 It was supposed to be launch time or following it for Vita.We'll see. for the Vita, is the person holding the system vertically like the Lynx? ah, memories of Klax... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 for the Vita, is the person holding the system vertically like the Lynx? You can do that in the standard PSP versions. My guess is it will likely be an option in the Vita version as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_lynx1989 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) It was supposed to be launch time or following it for Vita.We'll see. for the Vita, is the person holding the system vertically like the Lynx? ah, memories of Klax... Klax,huh?Midway Arcade Treasures had that and others for PSP. Having used a Vita for some 20 min 2 wks ago,I'm not sure vertical use is easy... It was inconvenient with PSP. Edited February 21, 2012 by chris_lynx1989 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockman_x_2002 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 If you haven't seen it yet, yesterday Kotaku posted an article and a mini-documentary video from the folks at FarSight, detailing what actually goes into making these pinball games. It's an amazing amount of work, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 They uploaded that mini-documentary a couple of months back. Still though, it's a good watch, definitely reccomended if you are a fan of their previous pinball games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlysublime Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) If you haven't seen it yet, yesterday Kotaku posted an article and a mini-documentary video from the folks at FarSight, detailing what actually goes into making these pinball games. It's an amazing amount of work, really. the video is in post #24 (http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/189404-new-pinball-arcade-from-makers-of-williams-collection/page__view__findpost__p__2464845). Edited February 23, 2012 by onlysublime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockman_x_2002 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 If you haven't seen it yet, yesterday Kotaku posted an article and a mini-documentary video from the folks at FarSight, detailing what actually goes into making these pinball games. It's an amazing amount of work, really. the video is in post #24 (http://www.atariage....ost__p__2464845). Ah okay. See, I missed it. I posted in a hurry and I didn't go that far back since it only appeared yesterday on Kotaku, and I tend not to watch videos here at home (the only internet I have is mobile broadband with a 5GB data cap). I figured it might've been something new they put out there is why I posted it, but I didn't know it was posted earlier. Even so, what amazes me is the sheer amount of work that goes into tuning each table and getting things just exactly right before it's sent out. It's amazing at the stuff they do, right down to taking a table completely apart to make sure no stone is unturned. You can definitely tell these pinball games are a labor of love for these folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I really hope the ball physics are beefed up on the whole. The ball clearly looks different now (certainly a plus!), but it doesn't seem to bounce terribly different than in the last game. It still seems floaty from what you can see in the videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlysublime Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 If you haven't seen it yet, yesterday Kotaku posted an article and a mini-documentary video from the folks at FarSight, detailing what actually goes into making these pinball games. It's an amazing amount of work, really. the video is in post #24 (http://www.atariage....ost__p__2464845). Ah okay. See, I missed it. I posted in a hurry and I didn't go that far back since it only appeared yesterday on Kotaku, and I tend not to watch videos here at home (the only internet I have is mobile broadband with a 5GB data cap). I figured it might've been something new they put out there is why I posted it, but I didn't know it was posted earlier. Even so, what amazes me is the sheer amount of work that goes into tuning each table and getting things just exactly right before it's sent out. It's amazing at the stuff they do, right down to taking a table completely apart to make sure no stone is unturned. You can definitely tell these pinball games are a labor of love for these folks. I know, the video is pretty amazing and makes me hope that people will support their efforts. Pinball Hall of Fame: The Williams Collection had the best physics and real tables. If they play their cards rights, I'll definitely be buying more of their tables. I'll still love and support Pinball FX2, but it doesn't match PHoF physics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Even so, what amazes me is the sheer amount of work that goes into tuning each table and getting things just exactly right before it's sent out. It's amazing at the stuff they do, right down to taking a table completely apart to make sure no stone is unturned. You can definitely tell these pinball games are a labor of love for these folks. Did you hear the one guy talking about gravity and what he can do with it that he couldn't before? Sounds like there is still a lot of 'cheating' that has to be done. I hoped by now that someone would create realistic ball physics that would work correctly without any cheating. Although I'm disappointed that real ball physics haven't been mastered, I'm still going to buy it when it becomes available. It will be nice to have a Pinball FX 2 type of setup, but with real pinball games that I might have played at an arcade or bowling alley or convenience store. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockman_x_2002 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Even so, what amazes me is the sheer amount of work that goes into tuning each table and getting things just exactly right before it's sent out. It's amazing at the stuff they do, right down to taking a table completely apart to make sure no stone is unturned. You can definitely tell these pinball games are a labor of love for these folks. Did you hear the one guy talking about gravity and what he can do with it that he couldn't before? Sounds like there is still a lot of 'cheating' that has to be done. I hoped by now that someone would create realistic ball physics that would work correctly without any cheating. Although I'm disappointed that real ball physics haven't been mastered, I'm still going to buy it when it becomes available. It will be nice to have a Pinball FX 2 type of setup, but with real pinball games that I might have played at an arcade or bowling alley or convenience store. Yeah, I'm sure they have to fudge quite a bit. Pinball is a game of physics, inherently, and modeling physics is hairy when you're trying to do actual physics in real-time with equations that can essentially give you decimal values that are never-ending (like pi or any of the other natural numbers). You also have to deal with mathematics applied to irrational values since pinball is a game occurring in the real world, and that adds in a whole new area of complexity. You jump off into a land of trying to programatically define continuous differential equations (in a computer that processes discrete values by design) in relation to gravity, friction, and other forces that, while it's understood generally, not every little minute detail is fully understood even by physics professors and mathematicians. So no equation or simulation will ever truly be 100% perfect because the mathematical equations underlying aren't all 100% perfect, physics concepts aren't fully understood in all degrees, and you're dealing with computers which have to further estimate those values. To that end, real ball physics, unfortunately and quite sadly, can never be achieved in any computer simulation, not even on a supercomputer. It's physically impossible to do it due to rounding errors in the way computers process fractional values and such (consider this: due to computer models being made up entirely of triangles, you can never actually create a perfectly round ball. And that's just one of many problems). But there is yet good news. You can still get pretty darn close, even if you do have to fudge things just a tiny little bit. Close enough that you'd have to be a physics professor to notice any real difference. So it does boggle the mind that they're able to get it as close as they are, even if they do have to fudge it just a little bit. It's amazing stuff they've done, and I've seen the physics engine get better and better over the years. It's refined to the point that, unless you're just really intimately familiar with each table in the collection, the game looks and plays just like real pinball. And I'm pleased with that. Edited February 23, 2012 by rockman_x_2002 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlysublime Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 my only question is... since they're constantly going back and forth between the real table and trying to make sure their simulation matches the experience exactly... what if their machine is not representative of all other copies of that machine? so they could be modeling their game after a bad copy. these machines are dinosaurs. what if the rubber is old? how a ball bounces off new rubber versus old rubber differs, i would assume. of course, they can't get brand new copies of these machines. So I find it funny that they could be modeling based on an incorrect baseline.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricDeLee Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I can't wait for this! I always thought that the Williams collection should have had downloadable titles. This is great news. I hope they make this for the VITA as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) my only question is... since they're constantly going back and forth between the real table and trying to make sure their simulation matches the experience exactly... what if their machine is not representative of all other copies of that machine? so they could be modeling their game after a bad copy. these machines are dinosaurs. what if the rubber is old? how a ball bounces off new rubber versus old rubber differs, i would assume. of course, they can't get brand new copies of these machines. So I find it funny that they could be modeling based on an incorrect baseline.. The parts are fairly (but not entirely) standard, you can refurb a machine to almost-new specs. I would expect that they're not using some beat-to-hell machine. Edited February 23, 2012 by Rex Dart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlysublime Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The parts are fairly (but not entirely) standard, you can refurb a machine to almost-new specs. I would expect that they're not using some beat-to-hell machine. Not quite... I couldn't find the newspaper article I read awhile ago about it. They talked about how rare many of the parts are and how they often have to scavenge many of the parts from other machines. I did find the following article in a search (not the same article I originally read). Talking about the art of pinball repair: http://online.wsj.co...3526210330.html the following are excerpts. refer to the link for full text: You think it's a pain getting a repairman to come fix a knob on your washing machine? Try finding someone who will replace the flipper assembly on your pinball machine. "I'm the third guy they called," Mike Hooker was saying in his car one Saturday. "You can't get anybody to show up." Mr. Hooker, 51 years old, makes pinball house calls in his down time. His main job is repairing locomotives for the Long Island Railroad. The technology, as he explains it, is about the same. Driving to a pinball-distressed home in this village on Long Island, he recounted a recent triumph: A delicate rebuild of a rare "Spring Break" machine with an unusual clutch on the score motor. "I knew I could never buy that part," Mr. Hooker said. "If one little thing broke, it would've been Game Over." Buyers, mostly middle-age men, cart them home in hope of reliving moments of youthful wizardry playing the silver ball. There is a drawback. "Nobody sells a working pinball machine," says Clay Harrell, who edits old repair manuals and writes a daily webzine called Pinball Repair Tips & Tricks. "If it was working," he says, "they wouldn't sell it. If you buy one, it's always broken." Video games killed pinball for two reasons: one, because computerized levels of difficulty allow novices to play while aces never grow bored. Two, because pinball machines get banged up. A plunger shoots a ball onto a steep wooden playfield where it gets bounced hard from bumper to bumper. Bells ring and lights flash until the ball dives into a drain. Whether a machine runs on motors (pre-1975) or microchips, "nudging" is the way to win. That is, jerking the table around just short of tripping the "tilt" switch. No wonder games conked out—and no wonder every pinball maker except one—Stern Pinball Inc. (still alive in Chicago)—was out of business by 1999. Of course, any mechanical device treated lovingly can continue to work for a long time, but route operators who own and maintain soda machines and video games often allowed their pinball machines to waste away. Pinball-machine maintenance requires unfailing replacement of the rubber bands that protect flippers, bumpers and vital "plastics" such as clown heads and spaceships. "If a ball gets nicked, it's like sandpaper," Mr. Cihak said, "It wrecks everything." He added: "If one of my pinballs gets busted, I'm out there right away." In a year's 51 nontournament weeks, Mr. Eckert comes in every day to "clean and tighten." Couldn't he fit in a few house calls? "Never," he says, adding, "I always hear people say, 'I bought a machine and I can't get a repair guy to come out.'" One directory lists 750 of them in 50 states. They can charge (cash preferred) $150 an hour. But pinball games were built to last just five years. A used one might have been in storage for 10 more. Even if a repair guy does come out, that doesn't mean he'll fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 All that junk just to say he had a rare machine with an unusual clutch? You can probably print one on a 3d printer these days. I doubt they're including "Spring Break" in the collection. More likely going to have more popular machines, wouldn't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_lynx1989 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I'm hoping for popular ones! Then again,I'm also hoping for rare and obscure and licensed tables and other variants they made. PHOF:TWC/TGC was very nice,just tables were absent I'd wish they had included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggomania Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The other day I bought this for my iPod Touch. I don't have an iPad and figured it would not work as well on the iPod Touch. That being said, it works fine. I like the tables. I hope they keep their promise on new tables being added every month. I also hope they come out with some tables that have not been featured in previous collections. Licensed titles would be nice. There is promise with this app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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