+Grig Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 OK, my question is for optimal setup on my Commodore desk. I have a working 128 and a working 64. The 64 operates a little better (keyboard wise) because a few of the keys on the 128 need to be cleaned, but other than that the 128 runs great. I also have a 1541 drive and two 1571 drives. I'm looking for the optimal set up here. I have about 20 carts and probably 200 or more original game disks, including Ultima V. I know the music won't load on the 64 for that game, but am I just taking up space with the 128 or is it better for 64 games (which is 95% of my inventory, only about 5% are the C128 automatic load versions). My thought is to run the C64 with the two 1571 drives (as 8 and 9 of course) and save some space (and a bit of keyboard hassle). Which is the best set up. Thanks for taking the time. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickR Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Don't the 1571's load faster when used with a 128? Not sure if that is the case in C64 mode or not. It it is, I'd go with the 128. Anything to get those disks to load faster. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2487696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grig Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 I believe they do load faster - but do they load faster when the 128 is in 64 mode? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2487700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Don't the 1571's load faster when used with a 128? Not sure if that is the case in C64 mode or not. It it is, I'd go with the 128. Anything to get those disks to load faster. Yeah, the 1571's have a high speed mode that the 128 can take advantage of, the C64, Plus/4, etc... aren't aware of it. The 128 would be my choice if I were to do any programming. The C64 would probably be the better choice space wise if you weren't going to run any 128 programs. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2487701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I believe they do load faster - but do they load faster when the 128 is in 64 mode? No they don't. Get a fastload cartridge if you want high speed in the C64 mode. I have a cart that actually works with 128 and 64 modes, can't remember who makes it. (or should I say made it) Edited March 22, 2012 by JamesD Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2487702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 BTW, I have a 128D and a 1571 but I've never used the 128D. I bought the 128D and it's sat in storage ever since. I just use the 1571 with my Plus/4 once in a while. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2487703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grig Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 I believe they do load faster - but do they load faster when the 128 is in 64 mode? No they don't. Get a fastload cartridge if you want high speed in the C64 mode. I have a cart that actually works with 128 and 64 modes, can't remember who makes it. (or should I say made it) BTW, I have a 128D and a 1571 but I've never used the 128D. I bought the 128D and it's sat in storage ever since. I just use the 1571 with my Plus/4 once in a while. I do have a fast load cart so maybe I can just use that. I'm probably not going to do any programming so the space thing is appealing to me. Thanks for the input. In storage??? But, but, but ... it's a 128D! Is it the european or American model? Would love to get one someday ... I can dream. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2487719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
krslam Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I'd go for the 128 + both 1571's. An Epyx fastload cart will give you faster C64 mode loading, but will always force the machine to boot in C64 mode. A Mach 128 will speed up loading in both modes and is switchable between 64/128, but is somewhat less compatible. There are a tiny number of 128 specific (or enhanced) games, and the 80 column mode is superior for programming and productivity apps. Having two drives hooked up will make copying disks much faster and easier. There are DIP switches on the 1571 so be sure to set one of them to device #9. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2487962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grig Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 I'd go for the 128 + both 1571's. An Epyx fastload cart will give you faster C64 mode loading, but will always force the machine to boot in C64 mode. A Mach 128 will speed up loading in both modes and is switchable between 64/128, but is somewhat less compatible. There are a tiny number of 128 specific (or enhanced) games, and the 80 column mode is superior for programming and productivity apps. Having two drives hooked up will make copying disks much faster and easier. There are DIP switches on the 1571 so be sure to set one of them to device #9. Is there a list of 128 enhanced games? I have a bunch of original disks but most of them say 'C64' or 'C64 or 128'. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2487996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I do have a fast load cart so maybe I can just use that. I'm probably not going to do any programming so the space thing is appealing to me. Thanks for the input. In storage??? But, but, but ... it's a 128D! Is it the european or American model? Would love to get one someday ... I can dream. It's the US version. I turned it on to test it, ran a few games and put it away. It's been in a big plastic storage bag ever since. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grig Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 I keep hoping that I will run across one in a thrift store one of these days ... Shoot, I'd settle for just finding an empty 128 box right now so I can pack up my 128 right! The C64 fastload cart is pretty compatible, isn't it? I don't remember from back in the day which games it did not work with but I think there were a few - something like Forbidden Forest or Impossible Mission or something like that. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
krslam Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Is there a list of 128 enhanced games? I have a bunch of original disks but most of them say 'C64' or 'C64 or 128'. Check here: http://www.commodore128.org/index.php?topic=1008.0. There were about 40 issues of Loadstar 128, too, that aren't listed there and are full of 128 software. Keep in mind that 80-column programs will require a different video cable (and maybe a different monitor). The C64 fastload cart is pretty compatible, isn't it? I don't remember from back in the day which games it did not work with but I think there were a few - something like Forbidden Forest or Impossible Mission or something like that. Yes, it's got pretty good compatibility. Also, if a program refuses to load with it, you can press the English Pound key to bring up the menu and disable Fastload. There are only a few programs that would require you to actually unplug it. Sorry I don't know which ones. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grig Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Thanks very much for the info. I remember seeing a few Loadstar 128 issues back in the day (I'm always saying that), and yes you are correct about the 80 column monitor/cable. I'm sticking with 40 column for now as I don't really have a need for 80 column at the moment. I specifically remember some bingo program with the animated cage turning around - sound familiar to anyone? I think I'll put my 128 away and swap for my 64 with the fastload cart. The 'delete' key and the '4($)' key on the 128 do not respond too well and I could use the space on my desk as my Commodore is sharing time with my Atari 800. I greatly appreciate everyone's assistance here, thanks again. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
20ohm20 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I used my C128 and a single 1571 for years. I put it away about a year ago in favor of a C64 and two 1541's w/JiffyDOS. Mostly because I very, very rarely used 128 mode and I have absolutely no spare parts should anything happen to the C128 or 1571 (and prices for them are getting...stupid). I've also allocated myself much more room for my vintage computers, so space isn't as much of an issue anymore. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grig Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 I used my C128 and a single 1571 for years. I put it away about a year ago in favor of a C64 and two 1541's w/JiffyDOS. Mostly because I very, very rarely used 128 mode and I have absolutely no spare parts should anything happen to the C128 or 1571 (and prices for them are getting...stupid). I've also allocated myself much more room for my vintage computers, so space isn't as much of an issue anymore. Hmmm ... now there is an interesting solution. I would need to get one more 1541 but I think I could find one for about $15 or so if I'm patient. How does JiffyDOS work? I've heard of it but never really looked into it. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
krslam Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Hmmm ... now there is an interesting solution. I would need to get one more 1541 but I think I could find one for about $15 or so if I'm patient. How does JiffyDOS work? I've heard of it but never really looked into it. JiffyDOS requires installation of a chip in the C64 and another one in each drive. It's possible that some soldering is required, depending on which board revision you have. With a 64 and 1541, there's also a switch to toggle between the JD and stock ROMs. Once installed, it's a terrific system. Highly compatible, works on both reading and writing, and adds several nice features. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Why would you need one more 1541? Did I miss something (I admit I read the thread quickly)? I was going to recommend JiffyDOS as well. Get it for the C64 and for the 1541 (you have to have it installed in each), then use a 1571 switched to drive 9 for the rare times you may need 2 drives. Best of all worlds, and nothing else to buy except for JiffyDOS. You can probably still get JiffyDOS from Jim Brain, though I haven't checked in awhile. Edited March 23, 2012 by Mirage Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I see no option for 128D..... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grig Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) My 1541 is the VIC version - would that make a difference? I probably forgot to post that, which is why I may want to get another 1541 - unless the VIC version is fine. Affordable 128D ... I am calling to you ... Edited March 23, 2012 by jtoubeaux Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 My 1541 is the VIC version - would that make a difference? No, that works fine. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 If you don't have a fastload cart you can also try turbodisk. It has to be loaded from disk and won't work with everything but you might find it of some use. http://www.atarimagazines.com/compute/issue59/turbodisk.php Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grig Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 I'm going to set up my C64 tomorrow with the fastload cart and my 1571's and see how things work. I will look into the jiffydos option - that intrigues me. Thanks for the info on that. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seob Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I recently acquired a 128. It's a nice looking machine, but indeed it uses a bigger foot print then a stock c64 or c64c. I have used the 128 in c64 mode with the final cartridge III, for fast loading. I do have one question, i have a 1541-II and when i use it on the 128 in 128 mode, it makes the drive make a terrible noise when i turn the power on. Like the head is bouncing up and down inside the drive. When booting in c64 mode it doesn't do that. Is this normal? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
20ohm20 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Why would you need one more 1541? Direct disk-to-disk copying and software that supports multiple drives that won't run from a uIEC/SD. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Why would you need one more 1541? Direct disk-to-disk copying and software that supports multiple drives that won't run from a uIEC/SD. No no no, I meant when he already has 2 1571's LOL... I was specifically commenting on his situation (if you read further, you'll see that I added "then use a 1571 switched to drive 9 for the rare times you may need 2 drives."). (And the 1541-ultimate-ii doesn't have that limitation that a uIEC does, as an aside). Edited March 23, 2012 by Mirage Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/195614-setup-question-c64-or-c128-1541-or-1571/#findComment-2488326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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