+MrFish Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 ...need to ask phaeron to add it. Speaking of asking phaeron, maybe we can ask him to move the connection status a little lower in the window; it's getting in the way of text output sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I just helped a friend write his first bit of TUTOR code, via a combination of TERM talk, TERM help, monitor mode, and the info lesson... Watching him from my terminal, typing chat with him as he typed code into the editor. Even today, I am in awe, because very little software has this level of integration! -Thom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Someone's using modem-based software and doesn't know about +++? S12 is settable in Altirra but currently ignored... I'll fix that. S2 should work to change the guard character. On the connection speed when emulating -- the actual connection over TCP/IP is buffered both in the network stack and in the emulator, and then the serial port and modem are emulated in Altirra in simulation time according to the negotiated baud rates. Warp speed in the emulator is designed to speed up the entire universe so that everything in emulation stays in sync. If you are running the emulator in warp speed, the serial port and modem will also run fast and no longer match the specified baud rates. Thus, I wouldn't recommend warping during serial port emulation if you're going for authenticity. Different speeds for the serial port and the modem connection are possible with real modems, though the emulator takes some liberties -- old 300/1200 baud modems don't usually support this and the remote side can't actually be held off by XON/XOFF or RTS/CTS handshaking without LAPM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Thanks phaeron. PLATO emits some _VERY_ interesting sequences, and it is altogether possible that +++ can occur in isolated sets, especially when using + to do cursor manipulations. This terminal is something else, it's a complete PLATO terminal emulation (minus the micro-tutor part), and i've been bouncing back and forth between PTERM and it for testing and just all around use. -Thom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 This is all so awesome guys! Just within the last year or two I was reading about the Plato cart and Cyber1 to see if anyone knew of a way to get an Atari connected. It didn't sound like it was possible, so I kind if gave up. I thought it'd be super cool to play some Moria, dnd and pedit5 on an Atari! Fantastic work everyone. I am definitely going to delve into this before too long. My thanks to all you dedicated Atarians! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Probably don't use three +'s in a row for now. +++ is the escape sequence for smart modems... which was not an issue on many direct connect or dial it yourself and hand up the phone modems of the day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 The guard time is what's killing it. If we can set a new guard time, then we can prevent this from happening, dunno if we can do e.g. ATS12=255 or not... if we need it, need to ask phaeron to add it. -Thom on most modems that came later you could turn it off or assign a new escape sequence to the modem...(pick a different set of characters or characters. you could also set a pause +++ pause guard if that wasn't you fancy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Someone's using modem-based software and doesn't know about +++? S12 is settable in Altirra but currently ignored... I'll fix that. S2 should work to change the guard character. On the connection speed when emulating -- the actual connection over TCP/IP is buffered both in the network stack and in the emulator, and then the serial port and modem are emulated in Altirra in simulation time according to the negotiated baud rates. Warp speed in the emulator is designed to speed up the entire universe so that everything in emulation stays in sync. If you are running the emulator in warp speed, the serial port and modem will also run fast and no longer match the specified baud rates. Thus, I wouldn't recommend warping during serial port emulation if you're going for authenticity. Different speeds for the serial port and the modem connection are possible with real modems, though the emulator takes some liberties -- old 300/1200 baud modems don't usually support this and the remote side can't actually be held off by XON/XOFF or RTS/CTS handshaking without LAPM. thank you Phaeron, I am very happy to see you delve into this and help with the endeavor. Modem emulations and their improvement is going to be a great help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) has anybody looked at device polling/commands on the sio as the rom boots: any observed any activity on the joystick ports? lastly for giggles and amusement pbi activity? any interference? with all attached devices on? with all devices off? with each modem turned on individually? lastly with a DOS 2.0s and autorun, or named file present, for serial device driver? direct connect modems etc. I'm looking for something... although it might not be here This may map out a useful course for people in using different equipment even if nothing out of the ordinary is found... Edited February 8, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) Got Altirra set up and connected. Looks like I'm in. Edited February 8, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) Someone's using modem-based software and doesn't know about +++? Nope... can't say I recall. I don't even recall the term "guard key", and I used modems a lot for terminal connections in the 90's. So, either it was outside of my experience or age is taking it's toll. Edited February 8, 2018 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Having a problem with both versions of the hacked ROM: when in the "Bigjump" and using the + key to scroll down the list, it always bails out at the point shown below, prints the text "OK" off to the left side of the list, and then Altirra's connection status changes to "(in command mode)". At that point I can do nothing but reboot and start over. I can type text, but nothing seem to have any effect on the mode I'm stuck in. bigjump problem.png Until Phaeron adds his update for this you can type ATO and ENTER. This resumes the session (here and with most 'AT' modems). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Until Phaeron adds his update for this you can type ATO and ENTER. This resumes the session (here and with most 'AT' modems). That's helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccorm Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Someone's using modem-based software and doesn't know about +++? S12 is settable in Altirra but currently ignored... I'll fix that. S2 should work to change the guard character. I remember there was a command to disable the escape sequence entirely (which, IMHO, we'd want). I found this on a random webpage... S2 contains the decimal value of the ASCII character used for the escape sequence character. The default value corresponds to an ASCII "+". See the Hayes Improved Escape Sequence with GuardTime. Values over 127 disable the Hayes Patented Escape Process with guard time. That is, no escape character is recognized. Values for S2 are stored in nonvolatile memory profiles by the &Wn command. I didn't know if this functionality was in Altirra's Hayes command set emulation, so I thought I'd throw this out there for consideration. It seems worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 @jmccorm yes, phaeron mentioned this. He'll add the functionality in an upcoming Altirra release. -Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccorm Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 @jmccorm yes, phaeron mentioned this. He'll add the functionality in an upcoming Altirra release. -Thom My apologies for not giving this my full attention, and thank you for the confirmation. The shame of multitasking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 A long and brutal game of Battleship... -Thom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 ... and I used modems a lot for terminal connections in the 90's. Speaking of which... time for a modem script for this login process... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 BTW, I was looking at the character set on the ROM (which is quite nice for what it is) and I think I can make some improvements to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Awesome! Go for it! -Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) A long and brutal game of Battleship... pr20.PNG -Thom This does not look like my Atari Played this game 7 hours ago. Playing another now. In both games PLATO has hit my battleship on its first shot! [EDIT] ...but I was victorious! MUAH! Edited February 8, 2018 by a8isa1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I'm currently soaking up TUTOR knowledge to see what it takes to write lessons, especially multi-user ones. I want to do a couple of games: (1) a version of Berzerk that can be played with multiple players (2) a pill-box tank game like scorched earth with lots of silly weapons. The TUTOR language has a ton of functional density and flexibility, something that only happens with decades of creative use. -Thom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 About the TERM talk feature: One of the keys on the PLATO keyboard is the TERM key. It puts the terminal into some very special modes, and can be likened to "desk accessory" type multitasking. Once you use a feature, you return to the lesson you're using. Once you press TERM, you are presented with a prompt > that allows you to type a command. two useful commands include: 'talk' talk to another user. After you specify a user and a group, the user is paged, and if they answer, you can quickly converse with the user. This is akin to today's IM. 'help' - Bring up a quick reference page for a given TUTOR feature. This is INVALUABLE while programming in the editor, as you can quickly get a reference of a particular TUTOR function. talk also has another feature: Monitor Mode. If you press SHIFT-LAB while talking to another person in term talk, the other person can watch your screen in real time. This is INVALUABLE while teaching someone else a particular feature, or working through a lesson, etc. There IS also an 'ask' TERM feature, but since there aren't really any staff on cyber1, there's nobody to ask questions to. They really had such a beautiful focus on "TEACHING" people through this system, it's astounding, and the level of integration is something sorely missing even from most of today's software. -Thom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just a side note, as I was showing off PLATO to a friend, they would hit the zoom, move the screen to look at a thing and then leave zoom and then type.... I had to show them that you can still type etc. while in zoom... Not sure why a person would think that you can't continue making selections and see updated screen info in zoom, I suppose it's worth mentioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 @16kRAM: can we shift over to the dis6502 disasm? Or have you already started commenting? I'll make a Makefile to call atasm for it. -Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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