popmilo Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Just for fun, here is an animation of popmilo's graphics mode on Altirra: Wow Nice work man! I know it's "just" a movie but .... Ughhh.... Looks great! Stuff like this is what motivates people to work more The Youtube video is somewhat distorted. Emulator executable here. Github repo here. Nice thing you got going on there with perl-asm combo ! Thanks for sharing code! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Was wondering about how many cycles it would 'waste' a scrolling of this... No need to redraw whole screen each frame... With simple wrapping (or even better MWP scrolling) we only need to draw stuff at the edge of screen (1 column and-or 1 row of bytes). P.s.- Popmilo how are you doing the PFs changing 'LDA/STA' each scanline? In my demo it's just a simple loop with lda-sta and wsync... Much better is version with interrupts.. I'll work on that this week... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) Awesome stuff ... not sure how well it'd work in a game, but if you used PMG's and softsprites, you could do a nice R-Type or SideArms type game ... maybe something like Zybex would work in this mode. Also, idea for a name for this graphics mode: XL-PAC ... because it uses the 16 color blending in XL PAINT (which scrolls PF registers every scanline), but in a method similar to APAC. Edited October 3, 2012 by Synthpopalooza 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Awesome stuff ... not sure how well it'd work in a game, but if you used PMG's and softsprites, you could do a nice R-Type or SideArms type game ... maybe something like Zybex would work in this mode. PMGs can help for main character, bullets, status info etc... I'm thinking now more about something slower and simpler to code, which would benefit much more from lots of colors... Hold your fingers crossed and maybe it can be done before a year passes Also, idea for a name for this graphics mode: XL-PAC ... because it uses the 16 color blending in XL PAINT (which scrolls PF registers every scanline), but in a method similar to APAC. Didn't think it is a 'mode' and that it needs a name I thought someone else must have tried it before.... I'll focus on speed of it, and try to make something more dynamic... ps. This will finally force me to fix my 'real hardware' setup and make it permanent focus point for testing code as it should be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I noticed that Green was not green enough, and changed hue a little... This rgb approach is good for base colors (red, green, blue and grey).... Yellow, purple and such are tricky to achieve without them looking a little funny... Test, test , test mixcolorsmode7.xex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 Surely this mode is going to rely on a well-chosen palette which compromises to achieve the best-fit general purpose effect. I kind of liked the "old" green, since it seemed to serve well as a yellow when the luminosity was high enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Surely this mode is going to rely on a well-chosen palette which compromises to achieve the best-fit general purpose effect. I kind of liked the "old" green, since it seemed to serve well as a yellow when the luminosity was high enough. Yes, previous one was not bad at all... Like you said - bright, saturated yellow color... I just wanted to see how good the green can be on that Last Ninja grass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) Yes, previous one was not bad at all... Like you said - bright, saturated yellow color... I just wanted to see how good the green can be on that Last Ninja grass This large LN pictures get me the idea of a beat'em'up like Bankok Knights with large guys but for a static image. Taking some static pictures from LN like these ones a build a box/weapons game could also work. Edited October 4, 2012 by José Pereira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 but did we never head this kind of setup? I mean polish guys always played around with interleaved PAL bleeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 but did we never head this kind of setup? I mean polish guys always played around with interleaved PAL bleeding. This is what I assumed - however, I've seen no mention of this particular mode elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 This is what I assumed - however, I've seen no mention of this particular mode elsewhere. I found this (Based on info that Synthpopalooza mentioned): It has this kind of 4x4 mixed colors mode in first part of demo but later in demo they focused on mixing two frames of (offset by 1 pixel verticaly) these to get better vertical resolution... Unfortunately, with lots of flicker ... http://atari.fandal....p?files_id=6627 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 There was also another 160x192 interlace using Graphics 15, called Interpainter. The difference is, no color palette changes are done on the scanline. This method allowed for 9 colors onscreen at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Things get weird People always smile over the Gr. 7 solution, this mode uses the 160x96 resolution. You should keep in mind that a stock A8 never can handle such game with "16" colours in the single scanline mode.... in this fluent animations speed. It's very nice to see the "realtime" Video using this mode though. Possibly a charset mode with defined pattern and charmovement could do useful speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 People always smile over the Gr. 7 solution, this mode uses the 160x96 resolution. Quite the contrary in my case: I always thought a bit-planed 160x96 mode with 16 colours would have been damned useful. The solution described here is the nearest thing to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Quite the contrary in my case: I always thought a bit-planed 160x96 mode with 16 colours would have been damned useful. The solution described here is the nearest thing to it. I think a couple or two of medium sized sprites and maybe multiple smaller sprites could be done in this mode in 25fps without much hasle... I'll try to convert my PoP bitmap sprite routine to work in this mode over weekend and see how it looks... Now just to find some nice background and sprite graphics for testing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I like 1:1 version... "Squeezed" version looks ... well, squeezed. Don't know if ninja game with such a large sprites is possible, but I would love to see those two guys fighting I wasn't expecting this mode to work at all on my NTSC 800XL but this is what I see via my "scan converter", which is my normal method of using my Atari. My camera isn't perfect. Hues actually are shifted more toward yellow than I see and saturation is a bit stronger here, as well. Is this what one would expect to see? Sorry, I'm pretty naive about the various fabricated graphics modes. -SteveS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 The scan convertors have the benefit of blending fields, so we get no flicker on the interlaced modes. It has the side effect of only a 30Hz display refresh. But I have found that the "PAL blending" modes also work well for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I think they work well on NTSC if you don't look too closely. Also, it is possible to jitter the display by changing one of the "skip 8 scan lines" instructions to "skip 7" and back every VBLANK, though that might eat up some processor time. Anybody have the source .ASM code to displaying in this mode? I want to do some experimenting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 There was also another 160x192 interlace using Graphics 15, called Interpainter. The difference is, no color palette changes are done on the scanline. This method allowed for 9 colors onscreen at once. a lot of polish demos used that mode in the 90s... best example is Overmind by Slight http://atari.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=3633 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I think they work well on NTSC if you don't look too closely. Also, it is possible to jitter the display by changing one of the "skip 8 scan lines" instructions to "skip 7" and back every VBLANK, though that might eat up some processor time. It wouldn't be cpu intensive Could be an option in main game menu "Flicker: On or Off" Anybody have the source .ASM code to displaying in this mode? I want to do some experimenting. Here... Should work... (with MADS assembler). mixgraphicmodes.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuel Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Here's a movie using the "XL-Paint Max Preview" flicker mode (effectively 160x240, 16 colors, 50Hz): http://youtu.be/37QGXsSVQ7Y Emulator executable here. Github repo here. Youtube butchers the frame rate. Best viewed on Altirra with PAL Artifacting (High) and your desktop monitor refresh rate set to 50Hz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmutzpuppe Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) This mode produces awesome results. Technically it looks like the Technicolor Dream (http://atari.fandal....p?files_id=3722) mode to me only with a higher resolution and less colors. I didn't expect such good results by using mode 15. Edited October 5, 2012 by Schmutzpuppe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Here's a movie using the "XL-Paint Max Preview" flicker mode (effectively 160x240, 16 colors, 50Hz): ... Nice work! Too much flicker for my taste but still good. Converted graphics doesn't do it justice... Original art adjusted to resolution and colors would be much better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) This might be our best hope for playing colour videos from a hard disk? Decent resolution and a reasonable amount of colours. Edited October 5, 2012 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuel Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 This might be our best hope for playing colour videos from a hard disk? Decent resolution and a reasonable amount of colours. phaeron made an awesome demo of playing a movie from an IDE device here. It uses 4x1 pixels without flicker but it could be adapted to do 2x1 pixels without flicker. As a bonus, it uses pulse-width-modulation to achieve ~7-bit digital sound at 15kHz. Unfortunately, I think you'd have to halve the screen size or frame rate or resolution to do a flicker mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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