What is the best model of MSX to buy?...

[ataridave]

For years I've thought about getting an MSX, due to the high number of shmups on it-particularly those developed by Compile. I was told on a different forum to get an MSX2+, but there are SO many different makes and models, that I don't even know which brand is considered the best. I would just use it to play cartridge games; I'm not planning on getting into disc games.

[ApolloBoy]

Any MSX2 or MSX2+ system will do really, although I really think you'd be better off getting one with a floppy drive as you'll be paying out the nose for most carts (which are ridiculously overpriced) and MSX disks are easy to make. Panasonic and Sony machines tend to be the best from what I've seen, mine's a Panasonic FS-A1 which would be up your alley I think. If you want the best of the best, there's always the FS-A1GT which has enhanced graphics, a built-in YM2413 FM chip and S-video, but they're very expensive and hard to come by.

[ataridave]

Any MSX2 or MSX2+ system will do really, although I really think you'd be better off getting one with a floppy drive as you'll be paying out the nose for most carts (which are ridiculously overpriced) and MSX disks are easy to make. Panasonic and Sony machines tend to be the best from what I've seen, mine's a Panasonic FS-A1 which would be up your alley I think. If you want the best of the best, there's always the FS-A1GT which has enhanced graphics, a built-in YM2413 FM chip and S-video, but they're very expensive and hard to come by.

 

OK, thanks! Where are some good sites where you can buy an FS-A1? Ebay's pretty sporadic when it comes to MSX hardware.

[ApolloBoy]

You could try asking around the forums at MSX.org, although most of the prices there are about on par with eBay (which is to say needlessly overpriced). You might have better luck with a Yahoo Japan middleman service like Shopping Mall Japan or Celga, but be aware that you have to pay some fees in addition to shipping. It may or may not be as expensive as eBay depending on what you get. Original FS-A1s are lower end MSX2 machines so they usually go for about 1500-2000 yen before shipping and middleman fees.

[ataridave]

Any MSX2 or MSX2+ system will do really, although I really think you'd be better off getting one with a floppy drive as you'll be paying out the nose for most carts (which are ridiculously overpriced) and MSX disks are easy to make. Panasonic and Sony machines tend to be the best from what I've seen, mine's a Panasonic FS-A1 which would be up your alley I think. If you want the best of the best, there's always the FS-A1GT which has enhanced graphics, a built-in YM2413 FM chip and S-video, but they're very expensive and hard to come by.

 

Did most (or all) of the games that came out on cartridge come out on disk? Aliens is one title that I've seen on cartridge format on Ebay, and it's one that I'd HAVE to get if I got an MSX!

[ApolloBoy]

Not officially, but people have converted ROMS into disk images so if you get an MSX with a disk drive, you can just make disks as opposed to buying expensive carts. The MSX uses a double density drive so keep that in mind when making floppies.

[+nanochess]

I'd recommend a Sony HB-F1XDJ MSX2+, incorporates FM music and various people at Spanish forums say that is better than the Panasonic FS-A1 that I was near to buy. Besides it looks great.

The only problem I find with these machines is that the floppy disk tends to fail, but as you'll be playing cartridge games there is no problem.

You can check some offers at http://www.retroclasificados.com (last time there was a Panasonic for sale)

[+nanochess]

Yep, I've found the link http://www.retroclasificados.com/?o=1&n=15&g=1&s=4&p=1&i=1001

Shipping can have a high price, though.

[JamesD]

I'd recommend a Sony HB-F1XDJ MSX2+, incorporates FM music and various people at Spanish forums say that is better than the Panasonic FS-A1 that I was near to buy. Besides it looks great.

The only problem I find with these machines is that the floppy disk tends to fail, but as you'll be playing cartridge games there is no problem.

You can check some offers at http://www.retroclasificados.com (last time there was a Panasonic for sale)

But do any of the games support the FM music? If not and you aren't interested in music... you might find something that is otherwise compatible at a lower price.

To be honest, I liked a lot of the older MSX designs better than the later Sony and Panasonic ones, but to each their own. FWIW, I still bought a Turbo R.

 

Something to consider is where you are from and where the machines come from.

For example, if you are from the USA you might want a Japanese model because they use compatible power and a variation of NTSC close enough that it works on US TVs.

A machine from Europe or South America might not work out of the box.

If you are in Europe, you might not want a Japanese version if there is a European version of the same machine available.

 

BTW, my Turbo R has these nice Japanese menus I can't read. If anyone has a translated ROM I'd be very happy.

[Seob]

I have 3 msx2 machines all from Philips. They are easy enough to buy because they where made in the Nethelands, where I live. They tend to have broken floppy drives, due to the beltdrive failing. This can be fixed easy. There is a guy in the Netherlands selling upgrade parts to convert these standard msx2 machines to msx2+ but it isnot very cheap. Be aware that you need extra memory to play converted cartridge games. My stock msx2's haven't got enough memory.

[Arkhan]

You want to find any MSX2 or 2+ model. The 2+ is ideal because of the onboard FM sound, and improved video chip. You can slap that same video chip in an MSX2, but you still miss out on onboard FM and will need an external cart. That sort of sucks.

 

Don't sweat the floppy drive. Shoot for a model that has one, but you're probably going to need to replace the belt in it either way, and acquiring disk games isn't a simple process anyway. You're better off downloading disk images.

 

The better solution is to buy a NoWind interface. It lets you use one of the cartridge slots as a floppy drive. You connect it to your computer and send .DSK images over to the MSX. The MSX think sit's a real floppy drive and boots as if it were a disk.

 

combine that with an SCC MegaFlash cartridge, and you can play more games than you can handle. The MegaFlash is a flashcart that supports everything and has an SCC for Konami sound chip excitement. It requires a floppy drive on the MSX to flash it though.

 

which is what the NoWind is for!

 

 

I have a Sony HBF1-XV and a Panasonic Turbo R FSA1-GT. Panasonic makes a 2+ also (FSA1-WX). I prefer the Sony models. They're easier to find, and easier to find replcaement parts for. All the keyboards from the XD models are interchangable should yours ever die.

 

 

Don't buy a Turbo R unless you're insane. You have little use for the thing, and it costs alot of money.

[JamesD]

Panasonic MSX 2+ and Turbo R models can run the Z80 at 5.38MHz instead of just 3.58MHz with a just a couple BASIC commands.

SONY does not support a high speed mode and that may be part of the reason why SONY models are easier to come by.

 

The Panasonic MSX 2+ models that support high speed are: FS-A1FX, FS-A1WX, and FS-A1WSX (All of the MSX 2+ models from Panasonic?)

The first model doesn't support MSX-MUSIC (FM Music) so I'd go with the WX or WSX, preferably the latter due to the upgradable RAM.

All Turbo R models support the high speed mode and also have the higher speed R800 chip.

BTW, the R800 can be clocked to 40MHz by changing the clock crystal. I haven't tried it yet but it's on my to-do list.

Games may play smoother at the higher speeds btw.

 

Turbo R machines also have higher resolution graphics modes and a scroll feature in those modes.

If you wanted to play with it that is... so call me crazy.

 

These are the commands that were shown to enable 5.38MHz mode:

out 64,8: out 65,0

I believe this returns it to normal but Japanese translations are iffy:

out 64,8: out 65,1

[Arkhan]

Not that you really need to speed things up in most cases. In my experience, it's kind of frivilous. Most people seem to use the speedup for Undeadline and Aleste 2. I never saw the point.

 

If you can find a Panasonic cheap, go for it. Otherwise, I wouldn't look too hard if there's a Sony sitting there waiting to be bought. The Sony MSX2+ models are one of the best ways to get into the MSX. The majority of the great games don't really have any slow down.

 

If you want something neat, check out the Sanyo Wavy PHC-70FD MSX2+. The BASIC-Kun compiler is pretty neat for making BASIC go apeshit.

 

The Turbo R is only for if you are crazy. There are only a few games of note worth actually owning. (Illusion City, Dragon Seed, Tir Nan Og). It's basically the thing-to-get if you are going to develop for the msx, since you can do all kinds of experimenting, and have enough RAM to run anything you attach/insert.

[+nanochess]

I'd recommend a Sony HB-F1XDJ MSX2+, incorporates FM music and various people at Spanish forums say that is better than the Panasonic FS-A1 that I was near to buy. Besides it looks great.

The only problem I find with these machines is that the floppy disk tends to fail, but as you'll be playing cartridge games there is no problem.

You can check some offers at http://www.retroclasificados.com (last time there was a Panasonic for sale)

But do any of the games support the FM music? If not and you aren't interested in music... you might find something that is otherwise compatible at a lower price.

To be honest, I liked a lot of the older MSX designs better than the later Sony and Panasonic ones, but to each their own. FWIW, I still bought a Turbo R.

 

Something to consider is where you are from and where the machines come from.

For example, if you are from the USA you might want a Japanese model because they use compatible power and a variation of NTSC close enough that it works on US TVs.

A machine from Europe or South America might not work out of the box.

If you are in Europe, you might not want a Japanese version if there is a European version of the same machine available.

 

BTW, my Turbo R has these nice Japanese menus I can't read. If anyone has a translated ROM I'd be very happy.

I'd recommend a Sony HB-F1XDJ MSX2+, incorporates FM music and various people at Spanish forums say that is better than the Panasonic FS-A1 that I was near to buy. Besides it looks great.

The only problem I find with these machines is that the floppy disk tends to fail, but as you'll be playing cartridge games there is no problem.

You can check some offers at http://www.retroclasificados.com (last time there was a Panasonic for sale)

But do any of the games support the FM music? If not and you aren't interested in music... you might find something that is otherwise compatible at a lower price.

To be honest, I liked a lot of the older MSX designs better than the later Sony and Panasonic ones, but to each their own. FWIW, I still bought a Turbo R.

 

Something to consider is where you are from and where the machines come from.

For example, if you are from the USA you might want a Japanese model because they use compatible power and a variation of NTSC close enough that it works on US TVs.

A machine from Europe or South America might not work out of the box.

If you are in Europe, you might not want a Japanese version if there is a European version of the same machine available.

 

BTW, my Turbo R has these nice Japanese menus I can't read. If anyone has a translated ROM I'd be very happy.

Appears like only floppy disk games use the FM sound, I got it because I wanted to know how it sounds.

Besides the MSX2+ scrolling feature is better than the MSX2 (check Konami's Space Manbow that supports both)

And also I choosed a Japanese model because in Mexico we use NTSC video standard and same voltage level (110-127 VAC)

[JamesD]

So there's no need to speed up the machine huh?

Not even if you want to work out and test an algorythm in BASIC before using another language?

Not even if you do development on the actual machine and want to reduce compiler or assembler times?

I think you might have too much blood in your SONY stream.

 

There are a few MSX 2+ machines on European ebay sites right now, I think there are usually more but a lot of people end auctions on the weekend and this is Monday.

These are the ones I found this morning:

SONY listed at about $200 + shipping.

Panasonic WX B.I.N. is about $243 and lists free shipping which is about what the SONY costs shipped.

Panasonic WSX B.I.N. price is more than I spent on my Turbo-R, but bidding is only around $100 (Reserve not met) with 3 days to go.

 

More might have been listed since so look for yourself. These were in the UK and France.

[Tempest]

I'd recommend a Sony HB-F1XDJ MSX2+, incorporates FM music and various people at Spanish forums say that is better than the Panasonic FS-A1 that I was near to buy. Besides it looks great.

The only problem I find with these machines is that the floppy disk tends to fail, but as you'll be playing cartridge games there is no problem.

You can check some offers at http://www.retroclasificados.com (last time there was a Panasonic for sale)

This is the model I have, and I can confirm that the floppy drive tends to fail as mine is going bad already (probably a bad belt or something)

[Arkhan]

So there's no need to speed up the machine huh?

Not even if you want to work out and test an algorythm in BASIC before using another language?

Not even if you do development on the actual machine and want to reduce compiler or assembler times?

I think you might have too much blood in your SONY stream.

 

The original poster is getting one primarily for games, so no, development speed doesn't really factor into any of this. The quickest route is to find a commonplace Sony MSX2+ and start playing games, as intended.

 

Dial back your condescension-o-meter a bit and focus on the topic at hand (playing games. Incase you forgot!), dude. The OP wants to play cart games, and doesn't plan on disk games really.

 

It's easier to cross develop on the MSX, and well, any old machine these days anyways.

 

Especially with a NoWind and SCC MegaFlash. My Turbo R just sits there until I send already compiled things at it to test. There exist better tools on PC to dev for the MSX than there are MSX-Native programs. Use a disk image creator, and you are all set to just fire it over with NoWind.

 

Anyway, back on topic since the OP doesn't care about any of this jive and just wants to play games, the floppy belts in most MSXs have died by now. They dry/rot and snap when they try to spin again. Sometimes they even get stuck to the fly wheel thing.

 

Replacements are cheap and extremely easy to replace. I've replaced belts in at least 10 floppy drives by now. Both Panasonic and Sony. Easy.

[JamesD]

Lighten up Fancis, I'm just giving you crap for being a SONY fanboy.

[ApolloBoy]

Lighten up Fancis, I'm just giving you crap for being a SONY fanboy.

What on earth made you think he was? He said he preferred the Sony MSXs for several reasons, not because of blind fanboyism, geez.

[JamesD]

Lighten up Fancis, I'm just giving you crap for being a SONY fanboy.

What on earth made you think he was? He said he preferred the Sony MSXs for several reasons, not because of blind fanboyism, geez.

Lets look at his reasons.

 

He said there were a more SONYs but when I looked up MSX2+ machines on ebay on 5 euro sites and on 2 Japanese auction sites, there were about the same number of each. There was actually 1 more Panasonic than SONYs. But then maybe the SONYs were more common when he bought his or it was an unusual day.

 

He talked like SONYs were cheaper, but of the MSX2+ machines I found, they were priced about the same with the exception of the 1 more collectable boxed Panasonic which was WAY overpriced. Then he says "you'd have to be crazy" to get a Turbo-R which SONY didn't make. The Turbo-R machines are certainly more expensive but they were the next generation, they are rare, they can be clocked to 40MHz, and only Panasonic made them so it's understandable if they are more expensive. FWIW, I paid about $100 more for my Turbo-R than typical MSX2+ machines seem to go for.

 

His choice of having his Turbo-R just sit there most of the time while he uses his SONY is just that, his choice. He likes the look of SONY better. That's certainly ok but it's a personal preference, not an advantage. MSX2+ is a standard and any machine that meets it should run the same software. The only differences in MSX2+ machines are Panasonic's high speed mode, and MSX-MUSIC standard support, which only the Sanyo Wavy 35 and lowest end Panasonic didn't support. I couldn't even find the low end Panasonic for sale.

 

That leaves only one real difference, the Panasonic's high speed mode. But he dismissed the Panasonic's high speed mode as no advantage in spite of the fact that there are multiple comments on MSX forums and youtube videos about it offering smoother frame rates on a few games. It seems a bit odd with all other things being equal, someone would summarily dismiss the only other advantage between the SONY and Panasonic. I'd have loved a 30% faster machine back in the day, and with all other things being equal, I certainly can't see anyone here saying they would prefer a slower machine.

 

And finally, in other threads he has seemed to support the SONY.

 

So yeah, I thought he's a bit of a fanboy. BTW, when does a fanboy ever say they prefer a machine due to their own blind fanboyism? Geez indeed.

[Arkhan]

Lets look at his reasons.

 

He said there were a more SONYs but when I looked up MSX2+ machines on ebay on 5 euro sites and on 2 Japanese auction sites, there were about the same number of each. There was actually 1 more Panasonic than SONYs. But then maybe the SONYs were more common when he bought his or it was an unusual day.

They are more common. At least in Japan they are, if you walk into an actual shop or look around a bit. That's because there were so many iterations of the Sony HB-F1xxx line of computers. Over the past 5 years, I've routinely seen more Sony MSX models for sale than Panasonic ones. I guess I had like 1800 unusual days then.

 

Maybe YOU had an unusual day. I've been buying MSX computers for awhile now, and I've dealt with both the Euro/Japanese models, and bought them from USA, South America, Europe, and Japan. I've seen a ton of crap.

 

 

He talked like SONYs were cheaper, but of the MSX2+ machines I found, they were priced about the same with the exception of the 1 more collectable boxed Panasonic which was WAY overpriced. Then he says "you'd have to be crazy" to get a Turbo-R which SONY didn't make. The Turbo-R machines are certainly more expensive but they were the next generation, they are rare, they can be clocked to 40MHz, and only Panasonic made them so it's understandable if they are more expensive. FWIW, I paid about $100 more for my Turbo-R than typical MSX2+ machines seem to go for.

When I last got my Sony MSX2+s (note the plural), I paid significantly less for them, boxed. I'm talking like, I paid 60$ for a CIB XV, and 55$ for a CIB XDJ that I later traded for a Famicom Disk System. These were CIB ones with the Sony books and everything. That's cheap. I don't think I ever saw any Pansonic 2+s in that condition for that price. I saw a plain ol' FS-A1, but those suck.

 

Also, I said you'd have to be crazy to get a Turbo-R because they are more expensive, and don't offer much perks to anyone looking to simply play GAMES. Ask any of the other developers in the MSX scene who are actively deving. They'll probably tell you the same thing. They're only really useful if you're doing development, and even then, are only useful if you're doing some over the top things.

 

 

His choice of having his Turbo-R just sit there most of the time while he uses his SONY is just that, his choice.

Oh ignorance, what a riot. My Minty fresh Turbo R FSA1-GT with a recently replaced FDD belt is hooked up to my XRGB3, attached to a 55" TV, with a NoWind and SCC MegaFlash attached to it. It's what I use to play games. It's got MIDI. The mint box, thermal printer, modem, and all the packin loot are sitting on a shelf nearby for me to stare at while I play Illusion City and Maze of Galious.

 

The Sony MSX2+ is hooked up next to me for development testing, since I am working on an MSX2+ project. So, I use both. Every day.

 

 

He likes the look of SONY better.

On the contrary, I like the look of the Turbo R FSA1-GT the most, and the Sanyo Wavy 23 MSX2 second most. When we're talking strictly MSX2+'s however, nothing beats the Wavy PHC-70FD, but they're often hard to come across, so I suggest the easier to locate, and usually cheaper Sony MSX2/+ models.

 

I also really like the look of the Toshiba HX Pasopia MSX1 models. Those aren't Sony either.

 

The Sony HB-F700 and 900 are both extremely awesome looking too. They're like the NMS82xx models, but not tacky looking.

 

 

That's certainly ok but it's a personal preference, not an advantage. MSX2+ is a standard and any machine that meets it should run the same software. The only differences in MSX2+ machines are Panasonic's high speed mode, and MSX-MUSIC standard support, which only the Sanyo Wavy 35 and lowest end Panasonic didn't support. I couldn't even find the low end Panasonic for sale.

MSX in general is a standard. There are still some caveats to that standard. Also, don't forget BASIC-Kun, which is another difference for some 2+ machines (PHC-70FD), and the fact that 2+ machines use a v9958 as opposed to a v9938 (like the 2) for the video chip.

 

and if an MSX doesn't have FM, just slap an FM-Pac in.

 

 

 

That leaves only one real difference, the Panasonic's high speed mode. But he dismissed the Panasonic's high speed mode as no advantage in spite of the fact that there are multiple comments on MSX forums and youtube videos about it offering smoother frame rates on a few games. It seems a bit odd with all other things being equal, someone would summarily dismiss the only other advantage between the SONY and Panasonic. I'd have loved a 30% faster machine back in the day, and with all other things being equal, I certainly can't see anyone here saying they would prefer a slower machine.

For starts, most MSX forums suck. So, I'd take any comments from forums with a grain of salt. :3

 

and sure, it offers smoother framerates for a FEW games. A few. Like, Aleste 2, Undeadline, and maybe Laydock 2 or something. It's not like you can't play the games without the speed up.

 

Plus, if I am going to be developing, I might as well ignore sped up machines in favor of targetting the normal machine speed, since that's likely what everyone will be using...

 

 

And finally, in other threads he has seemed to support the SONY.

 

So yeah, I thought he's a bit of a fanboy. BTW, when does a fanboy ever say they prefer a machine due to their own blind fanboyism? Geez indeed.

 

Boohoo, I like the Sony's HB-F900's appearance. Sue me.

 

I have both Sony and Panasonic models here.

 

I find it overly pathetic that your justification was HURRR I SAW HE LIKED SONY IN ANOTHER THREAD AND HE SEEMED LIKE A SONY FANBOY HERE, SO, HURHRHRHRHRR

 

Congratulations.

 

 

EDIT: I just realized I am wearing my MSX T-Shirt today.

 

That made me giggle like a fat kid in a candy store.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Arkhan

[Tempest]

Easy guys. Just let it go.

[Arkhan]

 

Let.

It.

Go.

 

 

 

lol

[JamesD]

When I said unusual day I was talking about what I found.

I have no doubts about what you've found in the past I'm just not finding them now.

Feel free to post some links so we know where to look, or is visiting Japan the best way?

 

FWIW, I did see an auction for a Wavy 35 last week, bidding was at just about 80 euros with a day to go but I didn't see the final bid. Nice looking machine. That with SD + FM would be cool!

 

I thought you posted the MSX machine you thought looked best in the following thread, but after looking at it again you didn't say that. I also thought you were defending the SONY when you were defending the later MSX machines in general. That was where I first got the idea you were a SONY fanboy. My bad.

http://www.atariage....25#entry2444789

 

BTW, what the best place to buy Turbo-R disk drive belt these days? Mine seems to have self destructed since I last used it.

I found a couple places but the web sites don't appear to be maintained.

Edited July 18, 2012 by JamesD

[Arkhan]

BTW, what the best place to buy Turbo-R disk drive belt these days? Mine seems to have self destructed since I last used it.

I found a couple places but the web sites don't appear to be maintained.

 

bas-ditta.info

 

His site is super-goony looking, but he is very legit.

 

 

Visiting Japan is a sure-fire way to score the best MSX deals, because alot of shops don't list online.

 

That's a hard option for most. Checking Yahoo.JP daily is a great way to find good ones.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Arkhan