macgoo Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 (edited) Interlace with tremendous sunburn.... Typical response. Care to point to any photo-realistic colour images on the A8 in 320*200? Typical response.... comparing final stuff with work in progress... Imagine this one in interlace.... emkay-demo100.xex C64 needs interlace for more colours. A8 needs interlace for more details. Yes C64 requires interlace for more colors (although some additional mixes can be presented non-interlaced via pal blending) Can the A8 display 320 hires pixels horizontally in interlace however? Not sure if one of the frames can be shifted 1 pixel hires increment. if it cant, it will always be x2 horizontal res maximum. Can you provide me with the original of that picture you put. I just want to see how it looks non-interlaced on the c64 via my converter. :-) I am not trying to have a grudge match etc. C64 is great, so is Atari, each have their strengths and weaknesses. Algorithm you are new here, but I know your work from csdb, but emkay is well known here for being full of shit and never delivering [anything other than underwhelming] 'amazing' examples when pushed and nothing but a dick head troll with zero talent and very little understanding of anything outside his blinkered flaming fanboy world of Atari 8bit....the most mighty machine in the whole world which apparently has ZERO compromises and is BETTER than a 68k Amiga amongst things in his tiny mind It's a shame because he seems to ruin every thread he posts in between 1% and 100% Oswald gave up on his antics here longgggggggg ago PS welcome here and thanks for all the great tools you've released for us mate. Edited July 27, 2012 by macgoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvas Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Interlace with tremendous sunburn.... Typical response. Care to point to any photo-realistic colour images on the A8 in 320*200? Typical response.... comparing final stuff with work in progress... Imagine this one in interlace.... emkay-demo100.xex C64 needs interlace for more colours. A8 needs interlace for more details. Yes C64 requires interlace for more colors (although some additional mixes can be presented non-interlaced via pal blending) Can the A8 display 320 hires pixels horizontally in interlace however? Not sure if one of the frames can be shifted 1 pixel hires increment. if it cant, it will always be x2 horizontal res maximum. Can you provide me with the original of that picture you put. I just want to see how it looks non-interlaced on the c64 via my converter. :-) I am not trying to have a grudge match etc. C64 is great, so is Atari, each have their strengths and weaknesses. Algorithm you are new here, but I know your work from csdb, but emkay is well known here for being full of shit and never delivering [anything other than underwhelming] 'amazing' examples when pushed and nothing but a dick head troll with zero talent and very little understanding of anything outside his blinkered flaming fanboy world of Atari 8bit....the most mighty machine in the whole world which apparently has ZERO compromises and is BETTER than a 68k Amiga amongst things in his tiny mind It's a shame because he seems to ruin every thread he posts in between 1% and 100% Oswald gave up on his antics here longgggggggg ago PS welcome here and thanks for all the great tools you've released for us mate. This was really unnecessary ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 a magyar Atari user? I only know 3... the guys from HARD. Svevasz. Szevasz a magyar Atari user? I only know 3... the guys from HARD. Svevasz. Szevasz too The HARD guys were not just simple Atari users, like me ... Though I haven't knew them personally nor met them. Hi.I really like their work on A8.Anyone knows anything of them today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Algorithm you are new here, but I know your work from csdb, but emkay is well known here for being full of shit and never delivering [anything other than underwhelming] 'amazing' examples when pushed and nothing but a dick head troll with zero talent and very little understanding of anything outside his blinkered flaming fanboy world of Atari 8bit....the most mighty machine in the whole world which apparently has ZERO compromises and is BETTER than a 68k Amiga amongst things in his tiny mind It's a shame because he seems to ruin every thread he posts in between 1% and 100% Oswald gave up on his antics here longgggggggg ago PS welcome here and thanks for all the great tools you've released for us mate. This was really unnecessary ... Don't feed the troll. Such level of selfish faked up and unrealistic babble don't deserve any caution. I wonder, if he has more recognition abilities in the real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealgorithm Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 If something should be proven, it should be proven with solid facts, not made up with words. Credentials are via evidence and facts only and by work created, not by words. The example picture with the unrestricted color mixing of the atari's colors' is impossible on the real thing hence should not have even been posted. Either a snapshot or executable of the real image as displayed on the atari is all that is required. Why can't people just discuss and share idea's instead of just arguing. One other person previously shared a link to interlaced images on the atari using this example pic in this thread which are true outputs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 It would be nice to have a thread completely dedicated to the beautiful images generated by the awesome converter made by Jakub "ilmenit". That tool really gave colors, once reserved to the classes, to the masses. Original image (optional), converted image preview, Atari .xex file (filenames format: "Author's name_imagename" to keep Kaz atarionline.pl's format). Posts without images are not allowed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I'd like to see more amazing pictures on this thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) If something should be proven, it should be proven with solid facts, not made up with words. Credentials are via evidence and facts only and by work created, not by words. The example picture with the unrestricted color mixing of the atari's colors' is impossible on the real thing hence should not have even been posted. Either a snapshot or executable of the real image as displayed on the atari is all that is required. Why can't people just discuss and share idea's instead of just arguing. One other person previously shared a link to interlaced images on the atari using this example pic in this thread which are true outputs. 1. Why can't people have a look at the thread's title, keeping the topic? If you feel attacked by ... again something the A8 could do better... why not making a new thread? 2.You want to discuss and post that virtual picture, that has nothing to do with the thread, and isn't allthough a "true output". 3. We only can do proven argues, when a base is there... depending on the development tools. So, here is a real screenshot.... not some dither added double picture(interlace).... .... And, now , end offtopic. If you want to make a clear discussion, start a new topic. Edited July 28, 2012 by emkay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urborg Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 OK. Here is my first converted image: Source: Result after few hours of computations: output.xex 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) Some pictures do well, with the usage of the correct resize filter and no additional dither... emkay-wiz50.xex emkay-colours250.xex Edited July 29, 2012 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I took a stab at the Silvia Saint pic, but I first tracked down an original which had less color processing and jpeg artifacts... Here's the result after 710k evals. (knoll dither 0.5 strength, default palette, s=10000) RevEng_SilviaSaint.xex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 This was really unnecessary ... Yes, posting an entire screen-full of five-deep nested quotes just to tack on a one-line response was EXTREMELY unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Ok, a challenge for you all, and one which really pushes the limits of this program: Original: My pathetic attempt: synthpopalooza-rainbowrose.xex I used knoll dithering, 10000 solutions, and gave up on it after a few days and 120M evaluations. Can anyone improve on this? This is a difficult one because of the sheer number of color changes per scanline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Not sure that'd get much improvement - maybe posturize the original to reduce the possible number of lumas would allow more colour but probably reduce the look of the pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 /h=143 /pal=atari800winplus /filter=box /dither=chess /s=10000 Wrathchild-Tron.xex 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 /h=143 /pal=atari800winplus /filter=box /dither=chess /s=10000 Sometimes I wonder , how the converter avoids to keep the essential of an image. The guy looks like he has 2 noses... The old calculation bug is still in there... And another one... bug.xex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 High contrast parts get adopted fast, low contrast parts get handled like a flip-flop. emkay-zx260.xex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Mike, are you preparing a 21 Blue A8 version? Surely someone will be able to produce a better image from the original (I used standard RC settings): Philsan_WALL-E.xex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Another one ... another ranbowy one, but more success. At 81M evals, knoll dither, 10000 solutions: Original: Rasta: synthpopalooza-rainbow-eclipse.xex 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Another one ... another ranbowy one, but more success. At 81M evals, knoll dither, 10000 solutions: Original: Rasta: synthpopalooza-rainbow-eclipse.xex Gorgeous pic - the original and the conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Another bug (or a repeat of the same one I posted earlier). I was assisting A8ISA1 get a decent set of SMPTE colour bars. I fixed a blurry jpeg with artifacts in PhotoShop. I cut out all the bars, and filled them in with a single solid colour - taken from the middle of each bar. Every edge was crisply defined. I saved the image as a 24-bpp BMP at 320*240 resolution. Options for running Rasta Convertor 5.1 were - yuv colourspace, no dither, 10000 solutions, use only colours in picture, laoo palette. Ran to 12.7 million evals (an hour). The destination PNG looks plerfect. The XEX screws up the bottom 3 vertical narrow stripes - they should be 3 shades of gray. Source:smpte_320.bmp RastaConvertor: (note the skinny blue & red bar - it should be all black) output.xex All files to run in "continue": SMPTE.zip output.xex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) The destination PNG looks plerfect. Note the violett bar that had to be blue. And, as my 256 colour "warrior" screenshot shows, the red is too brownish. while the rest of the palette is ok. Blue has a "brighter" state than white. Which is an error in the colour chosing. Same with a straight blue, that gets turned into a violett. And the old bug with the unnecessary different coloured line in the center of a unicoloured range. emkay-zx450.xex Edited July 31, 2012 by emkay 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmenit Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Another bug (or a repeat of the same one I posted earlier). I was assisting A8ISA1 get a decent set of SMPTE colour bars. I fixed a blurry jpeg with artifacts in PhotoShop. I cut out all the bars, and filled them in with a single solid colour - taken from the middle of each bar. Every edge was crisply defined. I saved the image as a 24-bpp BMP at 320*240 resolution. Options for running Rasta Convertor 5.1 were - yuv colourspace, no dither, 10000 solutions, use only colours in picture, laoo palette. Ran to 12.7 million evals (an hour). The destination PNG looks plerfect. The XEX screws up the bottom 3 vertical narrow stripes - they should be 3 shades of gray. Thanks for the bug report. I will take a look into that. Most probably this is the known bug with the imperfect emulation of ANTIC sprite repositioning in RC. In this case the expected output is different then from the behaviour of the executable running on the real Atari (or Altirra). Well... only because of this bug I still use the beta versioning I still did not have time to think up the best way to fix it not screwing the Phaeron optimizations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Work-in-progress: Please disregard the values under Norm. Dist. RC was restarted several times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Another bug (or a repeat of the same one I posted earlier). I was assisting A8ISA1 get a decent set of SMPTE colour bars. I fixed a blurry jpeg with artifacts in PhotoShop. I cut out all the bars, and filled them in with a single solid colour - taken from the middle of each bar. Every edge was crisply defined. I saved the image as a 24-bpp BMP at 320*240 resolution. Options for running Rasta Convertor 5.1 were - yuv colourspace, no dither, 10000 solutions, use only colours in picture, laoo palette. Ran to 12.7 million evals (an hour). The destination PNG looks plerfect. The XEX screws up the bottom 3 vertical narrow stripes - they should be 3 shades of gray. Thanks for the bug report. I will take a look into that. Most probably this is the known bug with the imperfect emulation of ANTIC sprite repositioning in RC. In this case the expected output is different then from the behaviour of the executable running on the real Atari (or Altirra). Well... only because of this bug I still use the beta versioning I still did not have time to think up the best way to fix it not screwing the Phaeron optimizations. I don't see anything fancy going on in the raster program in that area, just a ton of NOPs. The error is also showing up both in Altirra 2.0 and 2.1 test so it's definitely not the bug that I found. The b3-based source I have seems to spot the problem and re-evaluate it. The problem might be that in the current versions there is some state that is not being tracked in the line cache key, which would cause the raster evaluator to use a cached solution that doesn't actually match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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