+CyranoJ Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I'd love to say I'm shocked, but I'm not really - more disappointed at whoever did this, it's quite sickening. Especially as a free release was always on the cards. Rush, if you need anything don't hesitate to contact me (or anyone from Reboot, or, and I think I can speak for them here regarding this, Jagware) and we'll see what we can do to help things along. I wouldn't turn your back on the Jaguar scene over a few stupid people. Much better to shame them in public for all to see and carry on proudly doing what you enjoy and believe in. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Turbo Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Rush, if you need anything don't hesitate to contact me (or anyone from Reboot, or, and I think I can speak for them here regarding this, Jagware) Of course, what you need don't hesitate to ask, if we can help, we will do it. GT Turbo (Jagware) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 So of the supposed biggest 23 Jaguar fans out there, one of them is actually a complete t**t? From speaking with him quite regularly recently, I know rush was feeling more than a little pi**ed off with the attitude of certain so-called "fans" who gave him and jag slave all kind of grief after going to all the effort of making & releasing this game. When you go to these lengths to make something, present it so well and even promise to give it away to help combat speculators (obviously in the interests of any true jaguar fan) all this stuff takes your time & attention from doing the fun part - making the games. Compound that with the hassles of making your software run on as many different flavours of the hardware as possible and now this, and you've got a recipe for one big headache. To whichever one of the 23 people who bought this and dumped the ROM even with the promise of a freely-released version on the horizon: I hope you are satisfied. I wonder if you realise your cart binary is unique and it'll be trivial to trace it back to you? Message to Jeff and Shawn: Please don't let them win like this. We decided to call it quits once in the face on all kinds of drama/bs. I lost time of how many times Gorf quit and returned. Take some days away from it all and don't let 1 dick head prevent your and everyone's else enjoyment of the system (and If we all work together we can get any technical issues ironed out quickly, referring to what we discussed last night, I know this came at a time when you were already pi**ed off with the way things were going). Don't let one idiot spoil it for all of us - the Jaguar needs people like you two to continue moving forward. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
life_is_pleach Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 WTF? That couldn't be, right. You kidding us? I couldn't believe it. Who is so a stupid idiot and read out a rom and copy it? I think i understand your reaction, Shawn and Jeff, but please do not stop your works and don't punish the communitiy for the crime of a dumbass. Please. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimm Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I would just like to say i sincerely hope its just emotions talking about throwing in the towel. I myself critisized the price tag a little on anohter forum, but did my best to be polite about it and understood the pricing more once you guys told me you wanted to cover those dev kits etc.. I even asked if you could hold me a copy. So there are still plenty of people who want to support your project, and in hardcopy format, myself included given the ability. Especially considering how fast those 23 copies sold out. Look at that as an indicator, not the fact that one of the buyers is a dick. Ive used roms now and then and i have no moral inclinations regarding them what so ever, but as a collecting gamer, i want to own the physical cart, with box and manual. I want my collection of games i play to be a physical representation and played on actual hardware, not a bunch of files in a folder played on an emulator. Please dont give up already, there are plenty of people like me who doesnt want to use or settle with a simple rom! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) I've googled my arse off and cannot find a link to a Black Out! ROM anywhere. Does anyone have any further information? At the moment there's a really bad situation where 22 innocent people have something pretty nasty hanging over them and I think this needs further information asap. I tried to contact them here by PM, but they seem to have blocked them. I looked for their facebook and twitter pages - both have been taken down. If anyone has direct contact with either Jeff or Shawn, please ask them to clarify the situation and put an end to the speculation - it's not at all healthy for the innocent 22 people who bought the game with good intentions. I was speaking with Rush last night and he was already mightily pissed off with the Jaguar (not the people who use it or those who claim to be fans, but the Jaguar itself). I hope it was a snap decision due to already being in a bad mood regarding Jaguar development. He's been at this stuff for way to long to give up now and after the highs of finally getting something out the negative things can bring about a real comedown... come on, man... rethink your decision, please. EDIT: Plus, it's also worth considering: as it stands, with only 23 copies out there, we're left with yet another limited release game that crazy collectors will be prepared to pay through the teeth for. $80 game = $800 game in 1 year? Who knows... Edited July 21, 2012 by sh3-rg 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) WTF? That's the same sh@$ that when on with Mad Bodies! Edited July 21, 2012 by walter_J64bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD-i Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Just realised that the project is taken down. Sadly I hadn't the chance to order, since they were sold out. With just 23 carts out there, we'll have terribly collectors prices increasing through the roof, on which every serious Jag fan will suffer from. Don't let just one stupid idiot win over the whole jaguar community, thats not worth it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 WTF? That's the same sh@$ that when on with Mad Bodies! Erm, nope, if you check back, Mad Bodies stopped selling when it was discovered the mod in the intro was used without permission. When Fabrice refused to allow them to continue to sell it, the sales were supposed to stop there and then. ... To be quite honest, it feels there must be more to this story than any one of us can piece together right now. Rush seemed really pissed off and annoyed with the Jaguar last night (and I don't say that lightly, he was properly f***ed off). An hour later they've found a ROM of the game then quit the scene, shut the site, pulled twitter, pulled facebook & cannot be contacted :/ It could be that the recent legal threats played a big part in this - he and jag Slave were both threatened with legal action over some really minor idiocy, to the point where Rush was thinking of seeking legal advice. It's like one thing after another after another... It's a real shame as I have really been enjoying talking all things Jaguar with him and discussing our plans and theirs a little to see where we were headed. I know the materials for a 2nd run are on their way to Rush as we speak. He's not made this decision lightly - he's got a lot of money tied up in this. JagSlave says to check ebay in future (in small print) - I don;t know if that means a 2nd run will appear there or what? There are far too many questions and nobody to offer answers right now, not the best situation. As things have been left it's just going to lead to speculation and rumor (and we've already witnessed full jagtard finger pointing by infamous bullshittmongers who are in possession of less facts than anyone out there ). I see it like this - this isn't going to end good for the Jag scene as a whole unless we see some facts. Where is the ROM online? Whose personal details are hidden in it (all 23 are unique binaries)? We can all move forward with that info. Without it, there's always going to be stories and rumors for the idiots to fuel the fires with and that's not healthy for anyone (or hey, you could just blame Jagware - that usually works, right? ) While the fact remains that the game was going to be released for free anyway... this doesn't mean whoever is responsible is somehow to be let off lightly - they've done a really shitty thing. But... StormWorks have a chance to rise above it. You simply cannot let the actions of one selfish person ruin your whole activities and directly affect every Jaguar fan out there looking for more games to play and more things to add to their collection - not just this game but the 3 or 4 your have WIP for. If all devs reacted like that every time a single individual did something idiotic there wouldn't be anyone left on any "homebrew" platform anymore. If we lived in a perfect world we wouldn't have a worry.. but there's pricks out there who don't care about the time, effort, expense and sheer hard work it takes to make these games... they just see binaries to improve their upload/download ratio on romkiddies sites? Who knows what they get out of it... Take a look at how others have reacted in similar circumstances. People like GroovyBee have had actual WIP prototypes stolen in physical form... it's not stopped him working on loads of games on tons of platforms, he shrugged it off and got on with what makes him happy. Yeah, it pissed him off, of course, but letting idiots spoil it for everyone is playing in to their hands and the hands of the drama boys and hangers on who don't care about the Jaguar at all but get off on the politics and fighting that results from it. The real fans are the ones who suffer. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rush6432 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) I said i wasnt going to get into detail or bring in the drama because we all know this community has plenty of it and i DO NOT want to contriube to it. This obviously goes against what i just said as im opening my mouth and telling a short bit of the story... Here is the short run-down... (mind you not everything) I've found a rootkit running on my jag dev only linux box here.. Over the past few months i had seen odd things in my code, i had fixed spacing on it so it was perfect so that it was more easy on the eyes when scrolling through source and reading or editing, only to find odd spacing added hours after i had fixed things, or comments deleted completely that i JUST put in next to code i had written. i was very perplexed and though its possble something is off with saving or the program i am using... The box i use to develop has nothing more than what i have source code wise and a net connection and an IM client to communicate with shawn and no one else pretty much. I DONT browse web pages on this box as i know the implications that can happen with malware/malicious php/java/python/perl scripts. It was running regular Clam AV anti-virus. Weather or not the source is out there i dont know.... The rom file was sent to my own personal gmail address from a randomly generated spam gmail email address. Believe me ive checked the headers for an ip address or a way to trace it back but have found nothing usefull as gmail doesnt let you have the senders IP from full email headers.... and if someone went through this trouble im sure it went through a proxy. Mind you i'm not new to investigating or backtracking things like this, its part of my dayjob technically... Ive checked the rom file or a serial key (yes we did serialize them) and the key has been stripped and replaced with junk. Please dont ask me to post any details further here as im washing my hands completely of this situation and walking away as im very disgusted. We've pulled our sites, changed passwords on everything we own, deleted any sort of contact due to this stuff. At this point i dont know what has or hasnt been compromised unfortunately... I really appreciate the support guys but i think at this point we are more dissapointed and discouraged and throwing in the towel. im not willing to continue with shennanigans like this.... We may come back some other time but right now i just dont see it in the cards. We will try to liquidate what parts we had ordered of the game and possibly push it on ebay at the same price but im torn at this point if i even want to still make it available.... Thank you all for the kind words and concern and support. Edited July 21, 2012 by rush6432 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Henning Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 It's sad when this kind of s$%t happens. These guys were doing great work and someone just had to get their hands in it and ruin what they were doing. It's just too bad people can't just all work together for the greater good of the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) That sounds like some Jason Bourne shit, wtf?! Thanks for replying. If you want to continue with the release via eBay or whatever, we can help investigate the Tom 1.0 vs Tom 1.1 issues it seemed Gaztee discovered. Also, the fake NTSC in PAL info is now live on the Jagware forum i the developer section for you, hope that helps, too. Edited July 21, 2012 by sh3-rg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.golden.ax Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I said i wasnt going to get into detail or bring in the drama because we all know this community has plenty of it and i DO NOT want to contriube to it. This obviously goes against what i just said as im opening my mouth and telling a short bit of the story... Here is the short run-down... (mind you not everything) I've found a rootkit running on my jag dev only linux box here.. Over the past few months i had seen odd things in my code, i had fixed spacing on it so it was perfect so that it was more easy on the eyes when scrolling through source and reading or editing, only to find odd spacing added hours after i had fixed things, or comments deleted completely that i JUST put in next to code i had written. i was very perplexed and though its possble something is off with saving or the program i am using... The box i use to develop has nothing more than what i have source code wise and a net connection and an IM client to communicate with shawn and no one else pretty much. I DONT browse web pages on this box as i know the implications that can happen with malware/malicious php/java/python/perl scripts. It was running regular Clam AV anti-virus. Weather or not the source is out there i dont know.... The rom file was sent to my own personal gmail address from a randomly generated spam gmail email address. Believe me ive checked the headers for an ip address or a way to trace it back but have found nothing usefull as gmail doesnt let you have the senders IP from full email headers.... and if someone went through this trouble im sure it went through a proxy. Mind you i'm not new to investigating or backtracking things like this, its part of my dayjob technically... Ive checked the rom file or a serial key (yes we did serialize them) and the key has been stripped and replaced with junk. Please dont ask me to post any details further here as im washing my hands completely of this situation and walking away as im very disgusted. We've pulled our sites, changed passwords on everything we own, deleted any sort of contact due to this stuff. At this point i dont know what has or hasnt been compromised unfortunately... I really appreciate the support guys but i think at this point we are more dissapointed and discouraged and throwing in the towel. im not willing to continue with shennanigans like this.... We may come back some other time but right now i just dont see it in the cards. We will try to liquidate what parts we had ordered of the game and possibly push it on ebay at the same price but im torn at this point if i even want to still make it available.... Thank you all for the kind words and concern and support. If you quit you let the bad guys win. Simple as that. Who are/were you doing this for, and why? Remember that, give it some time, and please reconsider. I don't see how one bad apple means that you have to throw away your whole refrigerator. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Um...exactly what distro were you using on that box?? I'm sorry, but I find the whole rootkit thing a little hard to swallow, unless you were using some custom made distro or live CD made by someone other than yourself. In which case, I'd says it's unlikely that whoever managed to root your machine actually would give a f*** about the Jag in one way or another. Seriously, not accusing you of anything here, but something about it just doesn't sit right with me. I think you should follow the suggestions that have been laid out here, though. Sit back, relax, take your mind off the bullshit for a little while, and then come back later and start anew. Don't blow off the Jag scene once and for all because of what may or may not have happened with your source code. You came too far with everything to just dump it off like that. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I've had code change like that. The reason was rum 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rush6432 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Um...exactly what distro were you using on that box?? I'm sorry, but I find the whole rootkit thing a little hard to swallow, unless you were using some custom made distro or live CD made by someone other than yourself. In which case, I'd says it's unlikely that whoever managed to root your machine actually would give a f*** about the Jag in one way or another. Seriously, not accusing you of anything here, but something about it just doesn't sit right with me. I think you should follow the suggestions that have been laid out here, though. Sit back, relax, take your mind off the bullshit for a little while, and then come back later and start anew. Don't blow off the Jag scene once and for all because of what may or may not have happened with your source code. You came too far with everything to just dump it off like that. Thats totally fine and you are entitled to your opinion. Ive hit many road bumps with this game and havn't given up once yet along the way. yes there were slowdowns but i didnt give up. Im sure sh3 or some of the others had seen my frustrations with a few things but it never stopped me... This is something quite more than just jag-dev issues i ran into. Ubuntu 10.10, quite old by now... However i had checked a few files and yes the attributes had been changed and lsattr did show this... cleverly named files too.. immutable flag set. I was able to see the process running and eating up a bit of processor time using using and resources but nothing hugely horrid. runing and strace did give some very fun output and confirmed my suspiciousness...system calls TO MY JAG DEV folder.... Edited July 21, 2012 by rush6432 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I don't see how one bad apple means that you have to throw away your whole refrigerator. We're not talking one bad apple now, we're talking industrial espionage and 1337 haxx0r stuff now... "we found the rom file dumped ALREADY...." this is not... So who is so heavily invested in the Jaguar that they can't wait a few weeks for a ROM to a game to be released for a game they could buy for $80? They really _had_ to have it straight away? Seems like a really bizarre series of actions to undertake... if someone is that skilled why the hell are they stealing jaguar ROMs and not $millions in cold hard cash? ROMs we will or would have had a few weeks from now? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Just checked and yes, gmail does allow you to see the full internet headers on email. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Im sure sh3 or some of the others had seen my frustrations with a few things but it never stopped me... Yep, I can confirm, this guy has had to put up with a lot of grief from our devious little kitty... you've been at it for longer than any of us though, so I hope you reconsider. Our door will always be open, you've always got friends and people to talk things over with at #jagware as you know. Best of luck with everything, Jeff. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Um...exactly what distro were you using on that box?? I'm sorry, but I find the whole rootkit thing a little hard to swallow, unless you were using some custom made distro or live CD made by someone other than yourself. In which case, I'd says it's unlikely that whoever managed to root your machine actually would give a f*** about the Jag in one way or another. Seriously, not accusing you of anything here, but something about it just doesn't sit right with me. I think you should follow the suggestions that have been laid out here, though. Sit back, relax, take your mind off the bullshit for a little while, and then come back later and start anew. Don't blow off the Jag scene once and for all because of what may or may not have happened with your source code. You came too far with everything to just dump it off like that. Thats totally fine and you are entitled to your opinion. Ive hit many road bumps with this game and havn't given up once yet along the way. yes there were slowdowns but i didnt give up. Im sure sh3 or some of the others had seen my frustrations with a few things but it never stopped me... This is something quite more than just jag-dev issues i ran into. Ubuntu 10.10, quite old by now... However i had checked a few files and yes the attributes had been changed and lsattr did show this... cleverly named files too.. immutable flag set. I was able to see the process running and eating up a bit of processor time using using and resources but nothing hugely horrid. runing and strace did give some very fun output and confirmed my suspicousness...system calls TO MY JAG DEV folder.... Don't take it personally, I'm not calling bullshit to what you said. I was just wondering if you were mistaken in your observations. It's not uncommon for custom distros to have rootkits and other backdoors hidden in them, in fact it's pretty common. It's just pretty hard to imagine that someone would specifically target your Jag dev stuff had they somehow managed to slip a rootkit onto your system, unless it was a distro given to you by someone else in the Jag scene. Like other have mentioned, it seems quite a lot of trouble and effort for something so stupid as to grab the ROM of a game that was going to have the ROM released anyway. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I am so shocked by all this I am sitting here with tears in my eyes. Please reconsider, I believe you will still sell every cartridge of the batch you have already ordered the parts for. Ane probably still sell at least some CDs. Every group is different I know but look at Reboot. They still sold out of Superfly and Beebris even with both freely available on thier web site for download. I am pretty sure I bought both after the ROM was released. I do not wish to be one of the few to get a chance to play Blackout. BTW I have cart 9/23 and while no way to prove it, I definitely had nothing to do with it. Maybe someonecan elaborate, but from my understanding of RUSH6432 message that the ROM may not have come from a cart at all and maybe not even someone in the JAG community. While it is still a very bad situation no matter what, if my understanding is correct then I will feel a little bit better about the JAG community. I said i wasnt going to get into detail or bring in the drama because we all know this community has plenty of it and i DO NOT want to contriube to it. This obviously goes against what i just said as im opening my mouth and telling a short bit of the story... Here is the short run-down... (mind you not everything) I've found a rootkit running on my jag dev only linux box here.. Over the past few months i had seen odd things in my code, i had fixed spacing on it so it was perfect so that it was more easy on the eyes when scrolling through source and reading or editing, only to find odd spacing added hours after i had fixed things, or comments deleted completely that i JUST put in next to code i had written. i was very perplexed and though its possble something is off with saving or the program i am using... The box i use to develop has nothing more than what i have source code wise and a net connection and an IM client to communicate with shawn and no one else pretty much. I DONT browse web pages on this box as i know the implications that can happen with malware/malicious php/java/python/perl scripts. It was running regular Clam AV anti-virus. Weather or not the source is out there i dont know.... The rom file was sent to my own personal gmail address from a randomly generated spam gmail email address. Believe me ive checked the headers for an ip address or a way to trace it back but have found nothing usefull as gmail doesnt let you have the senders IP from full email headers.... and if someone went through this trouble im sure it went through a proxy. Mind you i'm not new to investigating or backtracking things like this, its part of my dayjob technically... Ive checked the rom file or a serial key (yes we did serialize them) and the key has been stripped and replaced with junk. Please dont ask me to post any details further here as im washing my hands completely of this situation and walking away as im very disgusted. We've pulled our sites, changed passwords on everything we own, deleted any sort of contact due to this stuff. At this point i dont know what has or hasnt been compromised unfortunately... I really appreciate the support guys but i think at this point we are more dissapointed and discouraged and throwing in the towel. im not willing to continue with shennanigans like this.... We may come back some other time but right now i just dont see it in the cards. We will try to liquidate what parts we had ordered of the game and possibly push it on ebay at the same price but im torn at this point if i even want to still make it available.... Thank you all for the kind words and concern and support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rush6432 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Just checked and yes, gmail does allow you to see the full internet headers on email. Sure you can see a header, there is an ip, but go look up that ip... run a traceroute, run it through geoiptool.com gmail to gmail you are screwed and at the mercy of google for that info Edited July 21, 2012 by rush6432 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari_Owl Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Ah The Jag 'Community' It never changes does it I finally get back from travels to change Blackout to released on the homebrew thread and Stormworks are no more Jeff & Shawn Very Very sorry to see this happen. Dont blame you whatever decision you make. Unfortunately, not surprised at what goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+atari2600land Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Question: Why would they shut down everything when the ROM got released? There are some people who can't put Jaguar games onto cartridges. I guess they won't be getting $88 of my money any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Unfortunately, not surprised at what goes on. You are seriously not surprised to find that a rogue computer program/hacker targeted a Jaguar developer to obtain a ROM of a game with an imminent free release? Srsly? You must really get bored at the cinema if that didn't raise an eyebrow at least, it blew my f***ing mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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