"Tempest 2000" and Rotary Encoders

[RARusk]

It has been three years since I started this topic and I moved on from it. However, with PAX South 2016 approaching, I have been mulling going back to my controller and finishing it in the best way possible: a full size controller with arcade parts. I don't know how sensitive a SlikStik Tornado Controller or even the original controller would be but I would like to find out. Everything would be mounted to a metal top, just like with the arcade original - would also like to use the lighted cone buttons if possible (they would be hooked up to an external adapter instead of relying on the Jag for power). My vision would include a customized arcade laminate - something that would be an update of the arcade original but tweaked to fit the T2K art. I don't know how hard that part would be - I'm not much of an artist - and I certainly don't know how much that would cost. Mind you, this is just stuff bouncing in my head and I don't know how far I may actually get with it or long it may take. But I will try to acquire one of the arcade spinners and try it out with my setup within the next couple of months at least. Depending on how that goes I'll see about tackling the other stuff.

[82-T/A]

It has been three years since I started this topic and I moved on from it. However, with PAX South 2016 approaching, I have been mulling going back to my controller and finishing it in the best way possible: a full size controller with arcade parts. I don't know how sensitive a SlikStik Tornado Controller or even the original controller would be but I would like to find out. Everything would be mounted to a metal top, just like with the arcade original - would also like to use the lighted cone buttons if possible (they would be hooked up to an external adapter instead of relying on the Jag for power). My vision would include a customized arcade laminate - something that would be an update of the arcade original but tweaked to fit the T2K art. I don't know how hard that part would be - I'm not much of an artist - and I certainly don't know how much that would cost. Mind you, this is just stuff bouncing in my head and I don't know how far I may actually get with it or long it may take. But I will try to acquire one of the arcade spinners and try it out with my setup within the next couple of months at least. Depending on how that goes I'll see about tackling the other stuff.

 

 

Is this something you would produce? If that's true... you can definitely mark me down for one!

[+orpheuswaking]

I've had the same thoughts on making a controller I just don't have the time or funds to throw at a project right now. Having a blueprint to follow of another successful build would make things a lot easier.

 

If only there were a kit one could buy

[jetusenet]

Hi,

I know that this is an old thread but in case anyone is interested:

 

https://www.classicarcaderestorations.com/tempest-2000

 

Just finished up the optical encoder install and I am pumped - far superior than the mechanical.

 

Jeff

Edited July 27, 2017 by jetusenet

[+Stephen]

Hi,

I know that this is an old thread but in case anyone is interested:

 

https://www.classicarcaderestorations.com/tempest-2000

 

Just finished up the optical encoder install and I am pumped - far superior than the mechanical.

 

Jeff

Damn that's a cool setup!!!

[Machine]

Hi,

I know that this is an old thread but in case anyone is interested:

 

https://www.classicarcaderestorations.com/tempest-2000

 

Just finished up the optical encoder install and I am pumped - far superior than the mechanical.

 

Jeff

 

Is the second controller an optical? Would love to see how you made that!!!

[jetusenet]

Thanks guys.........

 

The second controller is a mechanical encoder, the amount of electronics to allow the Tempest spinner to be used for the T2K will not fit into the plastic shell. Of course if I sent the design out and had it produced using SMD's, that would be a different story.....

 

I also include a third D-Pad controller for entering high score etc.

 

It's funny how they never allowed for the high score entering using the encoders, just does not make sense but I am glad that they work at all, it make a 1000% difference in game play.

 

~ Jeff

[catmando]

Can anybody recommend a place in the UK (preferably with a direct link to the item) for the correct rotary encoder to buy to do this mod?

 

I'm obviously searching on google but it often is not clear if the encoder is smooth or is incremental, maybe I'm just using the wrong combo of words or there's not a consistent industry way of describing these things.

 

Thanks in advance

Edited February 20, 2020 by catmando
needed punctuation

[catmando]

Or if someone could post a good quality close up of their modded controller so it shows the part number on the rotary encoder that would help also...

[Gummy Bear]

50 minutes ago, catmando said:

Or if someone could post a good quality close up of their modded controller so it shows the part number on the rotary encoder that would help also...

PM me your address and I'll post you some great encoders. 

I have a few left over after I stopped making my Opal controllers. 

[catmando]

19 minutes ago, Gummy Bear said:

PM me your address and I'll post you some great encoders. 

I have a few left over after I stopped making my Opal controllers. 

Thanks, have just sent you a PM

[ulao]

I have a question of another type but along these lines.

I want to make this rotary work on an emulator but the obvious limiting factor is the poll rate. The goal here is to use a real modded jaguar controller. 

 

I got a USB adapter, I made it and it's polling at 1ms (trick using LUFA)

I got the jaguar controller polling under 1ms and the encoder seems to output the left and right buttons as it should.

I can see on my analyzer that it's polling well with in the 1ms limit.

USBLyzer also shows time stamps of 1ms, so the OS is ok with it.

I set up the emulators to use the rotary mode.

but naturally it is slow as h3ll.

 

So few things,

1) I'm pretty sure the emulator does not poll at 1ms, nor do I think any will and I have no way to know this other then testing with it. tempest is out, looks like 16ms, phoenix seems slow also. Maybe mame will poll fast but the game will be slow.

 

2) What is the poll rate of the actual hardware, is 1ms even good enough for the game? From my testing the controller will respond every 100us with all 4 lines polled one after the other.  I could never reach that speed with USB 2.0.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by ulao

[Zerosquare]

11 hours ago, ulao said:

1) I'm pretty sure the emulator does not poll at 1ms, nor do I think any will and I have no way to know this other then testing with it. tempest is out, looks like 16ms, phoenix seems slow also. Maybe mame will poll fast but the game will be slow.

I don't know if any emulator polls the controller more than once per frame, as it wouldn't have any benefit for a normal gamepad (and potentially slow things down). Maybe the old one that's made specifically for Tempest 2000?

https://www.zophar.net/jaguar/t2k.html

 

Otherwise, I don't see any solution except modifying an open-source emulator like Virtual Jaguar.

 

11 hours ago, ulao said:

2) What is the poll rate of the actual hardware, is 1ms even good enough for the game? From my testing the controller will respond every 100us with all 4 lines polled one after the other.  I could never reach that speed with USB 2.0.

The polling rate is software-controlled. 1 ms is enough to get correct rotary readings, with significant margin.

[ulao]

I move about two positions for a half turn of the rotary. It's a lot better then the other emulators but I think the actual hardware does a lot better.

Edited October 28, 2021 by ulao

[RARusk]

It has been awhile since somebody has blown the dust off of this topic. Now that the GameDrive Cartridge has been released and that there is a somewhat decent emulator out there I wonder if it is possible to patch the game ROM to add the ability to adjust sensitivity within the game which would allow for use of a wider range of encoders instead of just trying to find more specific ones. Perhaps an option to account between standard and optical types which may reduce or eliminate the need for a clean-up circuit thus making construction easier. 

[Zerosquare]

Patching the game to change the sensitivity is probably not too hard ; I'm not sure I really see the point though, since it isn't hard to find encoders that work well as is.

 

Getting optical encoders to work as-is is not possible with a software patch only, at least not without dropping support for the 1 to 6 number pads buttons.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Zerosquare

[RARusk]

Having an option in-game to tweak the sensitivity will help in finding your "sweet spot" regardless of encoder. Besides, Minter added the encoder support at the last minute and didn't have time to smooth things out. It would be neat to go back in and finish the job so to speak.