Nosty's Tomek Cartridge for 8-bit Atari - great!

[Sikor]

Look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Uqtxvnk8f0&feature=youtu.be

Arek put info on atariarea.org.pl - original info you can find here: http://www.atari.org...ic.php?id=10411

My poor translation to english:

 

Sorry for poor quality of movie (on youtube - sikor note).

Hi-res 256x208px.

Object mask are drawing separately, so we can speak, that of the end of this demo we can see:

-16 sprites 16x9px

-16 sprites 32x32 px

-16 sprites 64x58px

+some textes.

Every elements is set with 1px precizion.

Animation has 50fps without buffering.

Movie was rejestrated on standard Atari 65XE without any modification. Picture was generate with Antic with normal method.

...

Because Zenon named his cartridge with woman names - I'm named my Tomek - as my son named

 

Sorry for my poor and short translation - Nosty now is on vacation and has problem to connect with atariage. Cartridge now has stabil prototype status - when Nosty come back from his vacation - put here more precizion info.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Sikor

[Rybags]

Very impressive. That must be some quick CPU in the cart, normal Atari would probably manage 1 big and a couple of small asteroids at once, Project Veronica probably 2-3 times that.

 

This demo maintains full framerate and looks to have a dozen big + dozen small as well as the Death Star object all going at once.

[+wood_jl]

Good grief! Would be fun to show this to friends who grew up with non-Atari machines....and watch their expressions.

[carmel_andrews]

Numen all over again, and that was one hell of a demo

[Jetboot Jack]

Sorry to be a bit dim, but what is the Tomek-8 Cart - a hardware accelerator of some type in a cart?

 

I have google translated the thread on atari.org, but google does a very rough job.

 

if it is a plug and play accelerator for the A8 that would be genius - a non intrusive upgrade!

 

sTeVE

Edited September 3, 2012 by Jetboot Jack

[Sikor]

if it is a plug and play accelerator for the A8 that would be genius - a non intrusive upgrade!

 

If I good known Nosty's words - yes, it is. And not only accelerator. But we see it for few days - when Arek return from his vacation.

[Jetboot Jack]

Ooh - I am so excited, a proper democratic and by the sounds of it cheap upgrade.

 

Re-reading atari.org it seems to also indicate the idea of games coming on a cart with this built in that would be super awesome - an invisible upgrade!

 

sTeVE

[Heaven/TQA]

What the hell is that?

[+JAC!]

I guess some ARM/FPGA based CPU/Blitter which provides the 8/16K of plain HIRES display in the module port ($8000-BFFF), written by the ARM CPU. One of the things on my "If one day I create a hardware, I will..." list, together with the double GTIA luma mixer and a few others :-)

Edited September 3, 2012 by JAC!

[Jetboot Jack]

The atari.org article refers to other ANTIC modes, not just HIRES, if my feeble translation is anything to go by...

 

sTeVE

[+JAC!]

I was referring to the dmo in the video. Of course you can put anything in the memory block which is seen by the CPU/ANTIC.

But let's wait and see...

[Mclaneinc]

And something I dare say Altirra could emulate nicely?

[Rybags]

I'd imagine so. Another use could be emulating other sound chips e.g. SID. Cart CPU presents the sample data needed for each frame, 6502 just uses Timer IRQ and only needs to stuff the data and update the pointer.

[roland p]

It uses a PIC Microcontroller: http://translate.goo...=155605#p155605

 

Google translation:

 

 

Cart, of course, contains a microcontroller. It is a 16-bit PIC24 Microchip production. 40MIPS performance, 8KB RAM, 128KB flash. I will say right away that this model poczatkwo chose only to do a prototype proof-of-concept, and ultimately wanted to use the more expensive and more powerful Prock. But suddenly it turned out that this also will be quite useful, and at the same time is so cheap that you can use the will to give specific games. But more about that later.

Cartridgu are located at 4 chips: PIC, 7400, 2x 3V3 voltage converter <-> 5V. For this several discrete elements, and that's all.

Cost elements <30zl.

 

Coprocessor for cartridgu fix was my idea for many years. It is easy, but the problem has always been the exchange of data with Atari. Because cart as we know it can not zhaltowac 6502 and Antica to access the RAM Atari. They were known for at least 3 solutions to this problem:

First Ordinary 8KB memory plugged into the area $ A000-$ BFFF which address data bus and shuttle are exchanged between Atari and the coprocessor. It is applied in Konop Zenon and Veronica, but electronics needed for this is quite large.

Second Dual-port memory. Seban experimented with this, but this memory is available it is difficult and expensive.

3rd My old idea: fast enough teeth coprocessor managed to decode the address and substitute the corresponding data for Atari, as if simulating the Atrai ordinary memory cartridge incorporated into the area in the background by doing the assigned calculations.

But a week after I had a sudden revelation Głuchołazy and invented the fourth way He resigned from the decoding addresses. Because I invented how to do everything that I showed in the demo and what described the XXL, without Connectivity to the coprocessor address bus. And that is (modestly speaking) the only stroke of genius which I had

So Atari communicates with CART TOMEK-8 only by $ D5xx page. And now the most important: coprocessor has no idea where on the page writes / reads Atari. And yet it is able to realize orders. As long as a developer on the Atari will stick to protocol.

And it is a simple protocol. For example, multiplication is effected as follows:

lda # $ 40; orders multiplication

sta $ D500

lda multiplicand

sta $ D500

lda count This

sta $ D500

lda $ D500; lsb result

ldy $ D500; msb result

In the case of commands, whose execution takes more time and data can not be answered immediately, reading from the $ D5 will return code issued orders last for ever on the calculation, and the end of their returns 0 It is a signal that one can pick up the results (if assumed command of some results will be returned), or spend the next command.

But I noticed as unemployed, even with the best support, Atari zdązyloby not draw such effects. A well Jell wrote that the coprocessor is a "content generator RAM, read by antic."

Only that simple and probably invented ingenious solution: a screen memory RAM'ie coprocessor. We determine the amount of the line width of the screen display mode.

We determine the background, issue commands by moving objects (as you have seen, even tens of large sprites on the box), and then, as the frame before Antic will retrieve the data, issue a simple command to "generate data for Antica".

The whole myk including the Display List looks like this (for hi-res mode):

, Display lists

dl

dta $ 70, $ 70, $ 70

192 dta $ 4F, a ($ D500)

dta $ 41, and (dl)

So the memory of each line indicates the $ page D5

Additional profit from this idea to gain a few KB memory at Atari.

This cartridge has changed in the banal graphics card simple operation on the part of Atari. I wrote a simple frimeware far to high resolution mode: support "ghosts" of any size, to draw points, lines, text, writing, etc. I create documentation. When I come back I will deal with color modes.

But there is nothing in the way of teeth, eg add support for 2D and 3D transformations, texture, and what you just someone desires. That is, stand in the way of my paltry skills. But if someone with experience and abilities such tebe or willed Konop also create orders, to think of Doom on Atari would be in our footprint.

I would add that the developement that allows the cart to create and debug programs from the PC PIC'a will cost about 160 and I gladly will finance the above mentioned tool for the experienced programmer or other-scenowca, who wants to take part in the creation of such a universal frimeware.

As for questions about wydanosc, examples:

- Drawing the screen at the desired location (in pixels) of the object background 64x64 pixels OR (or XOR, or AND) is about 110 clock Atari

- Draw a line with a length of 100 points (bresenhamem) is 63 bars of Atari,

- Rewriting the background 320x192 points are about 175 bars. (Tebe asking whether you had the right bits and bytes, and xxl responsible fades. This order is not only a precision 2-bit byte, ie it uses the coprocessor is 16-bit, so it's a bolt)

So it is fast. Very quickly. And remember with me is quite miserable programmer and for me it was a completely new assembler, whom I learn from the month. I think that such drawing sprites easily could it be about 30% faster if he wrote it such Konop

What else?

WSPR for graphics is imho the most important, but you can add to frimeware calculator for real numbers, you can support matrix calculations, can be the music player, there are no restrictions.

I've done some interesting experiments. For example cartridge is fast enough to be able to put the code for Atari to $ D5xx page. What is wykorzysac? I've got some interesting ideas for the future ...

Or I've done such an experiment: set text mode DL $ 02 where each line indicates $ D500. At the same time address generator set characters (CHBAS) to $ D400. I Antica cartridge at the same time generate the image data in text mode and data characters (32 to 63).

I also have an idea how to write support for playing music.

Well, an idea of ​​a few days. I'm pretty sure I will be able to boot from the Atari cartridge without EPROM memory.

Include a pic of the current protorypu. Elements of the deposit of another, more resembling cart I will have unfortunately only for 2 weeks. If you arrive at the party to Warsaw and, of course, be bringing demonstrate.

[MaPa]

IMHO nice hw effort but "useless" like VBXE. I think there will be "nobody" who will write something for it. And personally I'm not even interested in some games/demos for it... I have a PC for superb looking games. But that's just my opinion.

[AtariNerd]

Could this be of any benefit for the emulators writen for the A8 - not A800 or Altira, but things like the Apple or Spectrum emulators, written for use on the A8?

[Bryan]

Could this be of any benefit for the emulators writen for the A8 - not A800 or Altira, but things like the Apple or Spectrum emulators, written for use on the A8?

That's an interesting point. Heck, as long as you can transfer data back and forth quickly you could probably emulate a slow PC with it.

[Rybags]

If it has enough internal Ram then in theory it could emulate another machine then just present the graphics and sound data in a format the A8 can use.

 

Since there's no super-quick way of transferring data to/from it from the 6502 point of view, emulating with code resident in normal Ram wouldn't really be much use.

[candle]

JAC!: you already have all the gear it needs to write something, right? that vbxe equipped machine you won at sillyventure is still getting dust in your storage i suppose, and we're always looking forward for anyone willing to write something neat

 

MaPa: thanks for making that comment, now is this makes electron "useless", and me "nobody", or it is other way around?

 

this cartridge was thought of as dedicated cartridge for dedicated game, and doesn't work without it, that makes it as "useless" as any other cartridge with game on it, and whoever writes that game "nobody" too - nice though, well expressed too...

 

thank you, from the botton of my heart indeed

Edited September 4, 2012 by candle

[candle]

electon's response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f0zHgs0GpI

[+Philsan]

DM, my favourite band.

Useless, a very nice video from Ultra album.

[+orpheuswaking]

IMHO nice hw effort but "useless" like VBXE. I think there will be "nobody" who will write something for it. And personally I'm not even interested in some games/demos for it... I have a PC for superb looking games. But that's just my opinion.

 

The difference here is that you are not making for a limited userbase, The "upgrade" is on the cart, so you write your software for it and distribute it in one package. So I think there will be people using it.

 

It's no different from the Atari 7800 Ballblazer carts with Pokey on board, or N64 carts with physical enhancements.

[nosty]

Ooh - I am so excited, a proper democratic and by the sounds of it cheap upgrade.

Re-reading atari.org it seems to also indicate the idea of games coming on a cart with this built in that would be super awesome - an invisible upgrade!

 

Yes, this is my target. No soldering, just plug-and-play

 

IMHO nice hw effort but "useless" like VBXE. I think there will be "nobody" who will write something for it.

 

I'm writing a simple general-purpose frimeware with soft-PMG support in various Antic modes. So you don't need to learn PIC asm for use it.

In my opinion a cartridge is the best and natural way for Atari upgrade. TOMEK-8 with PIC24 microcolntroller for Atari can be like Super-FX for SNES (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_FX).

[+Stephen]

This sounds like an awesome idea!

[Chilly Willy]

Oh yeah! When these are available, I'm definitely getting one.