Harmony and paddles

[+atari2600land]

I can't get a game to work with Harmony using paddles. Am I doing anything wrong or are my paddles just being stupid? I press fire and nothing happens.

[LidLikesIntellivision]

Harmony works very well with paddles!

If I remember correct, you need to use the second paddle. Have you tried both?

[+atari2600land]

Yep, I tried both. And to test the fire button on the paddles, I used Demons to Diamonds and the fire buttons work.

[AtariBrian]

kind of off topic, anyone try the super pots from Best for the paddles ?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

So you can navigate with the paddles, but neither select a game or display its full name?

[+atari2600land]

So you can navigate with the paddles, but neither select a game or display its full name?

I can select a game with the paddles, but fire, which should get me to the game, doesn't work.

Edited September 6, 2012 by atari2600land

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Can you select the full name of the game?

[+atari2600land]

I don't know what you mean. The full name of the game is already on there. The white bar selecting the game goes up and down.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Some game names may (or may not) be longer than one row. So if you press the button longer, the screen switches and only displays the name of the current game until you release the button again.

 

Does this work for you?

[snstay]

I have no problem using my paddles

[+atari2600land]

Some game names may (or may not) be longer than one row. So if you press the button longer, the screen switches and only displays the name of the current game until you release the button again.

 

Does this work for you?

I don't know, I don't have any game names longer than one row. Is there a ROM I can download and test this on?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

It works even if the name is not longer.

[+atari2600land]

Wouldn't pressing the button start the game, though?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

No.

 

Why don't you just try? Or RTFM?

[+atari2600land]

Per the manual:

"Use the fire button to open a directory (enclosed by [ ]), and to select a menu entry to be loaded."

"The menu system can also be navigated with a paddle controller or driving controller in the left port."

It didn't really say anything else about paddles (I searched for the word "paddle" in the pdf document.)

I tried pushing the fire button on a name and it showed the full name (eventually), but I can't get it to open the file.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

 

Per the manual:

"Use the fire button to open a directory (enclosed by [ ]), and to select a menu entry to be loaded."

"The menu system can also be navigated with a paddle controller or driving controller in the left port."

It didn't really say anything else about paddles (I searched for the word "paddle" in the pdf document.)

I know, I was also involved into writing it.

 

I tried pushing the fire button on a name and it showed the full name (eventually), but I can't get it to open the file.

So your paddle fire button works and is detected in the Harmony menu. Good.

 

Hmm... The game is started by releasing the button. I suppose you did not only press the button but also released it, right?

[+atari2600land]

I think what may be the problem is the rapid changing from page 0 to 1 most of the time. I tried releasing the button when this didn't happen and it works, but not when it quickly blinks between pages 0 and 1.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Why does it "blink" between pages 0 and 1? If you center the paddle, it should stop or move slowly, but not rapidly.

[+atari2600land]

If I get to the bottom of the page and move the paddle right, it goes to the next page and blinks.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Yes, that's how it works.

 

You can only start a new game if the cursor does not move between pressing and releasing fire. Else the menu will assume you want to page quickly and move to the next page while you continue pressing the button.

 

So: Press button, release button and do not move paddle in between should result into starting the game.

[+thegoldenband]

Hmmm, I'm also seeing inconsistent behavior on this front. I've power-cycled my Harmony cart with paddles attached several times tonight, and on different power cycles the paddle's fire button will go from being quite responsive, to erratic, to entirely unresponsive.

 

However, in at least some cases I was able to resolve the issue by tapping the fire button very lightly, as in only about halfway. Then the menu items would select. (Note that I don't have this problem during normal gameplay, so the fire button is working fine.)

 

In certain positions, the paddle has very mild jitter; maybe, though the cursor on the menu isn't moving, the amount of data is sufficient that the menu is refusing to select because it thinks I'm trying to move...? That's the only explanation I can think of, since my workaround means that the button is only "on" for a fraction of a second, whereas a normal button press lasts much longer.

 

BTW I'm not sure how to tell which BIOS.bin file I'm running -- right now it's just hbios.bin with a modification date in November 2010 -- but the firmware tells me it's version 1.05.

 

Also, on a different but related note, I can't seem to get Tac-Scan to start. Unfortunately I don't have an original copy of Tac-Scan to test, but when I play either the "~" version or the PAL variant from Rom Hunter's collection, it simply won't start when I press fire on either paddle controller. Meanwhile, the same ROM starts up fine in Stella (using fire), and both paddles work fine with other carts. Any ideas?

 

EDIT: I installed hbios_105_NTSC.bin to make sure I was current. I can't tell whether the menu selection problem is any better -- it seems like it might be, but I could just be getting used to it.

 

OTOH, the Tac-Scan problem remains. I think I'll split that off into a separate topic presently.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Hmmm, I'm also seeing inconsistent behavior on this front. I've power-cycled my Harmony cart with paddles attached several times tonight, and on different power cycles the paddle's fire button will go from being quite responsive, to erratic, to entirely unresponsive.

I hope this doesn't come over like a lame excuse, but I cannot see, how the Harmony menu code could be responsible for that at all. I will have another look into the code, though I wouldn't expect anything from that.

 

However, in at least some cases I was able to resolve the issue by tapping the fire button very lightly, as in only about halfway. Then the menu items would select. (Note that I don't have this problem during normal gameplay, so the fire button is working fine.)

Could it be that mechanical the button is somehow affecting the paddle position? A button can be either pressed or not. So if a light press causes a different result, that would indicate a problem with your paddle.

 

In certain positions, the paddle has very mild jitter; maybe, though the cursor on the menu isn't moving, the amount of data is sufficient that the menu is refusing to select because it thinks I'm trying to move...?

No, that shouldn't be. In the menu the paddle position is only scanned with each menu position. So if you have a mild jitter but the menu position stays unchanged, then the menu code doesn't detect any movement.

 

How does the long press for displaying the full filename work for you?

 

As you can see, I am pretty lost on this, except for wild guesses about some weird hardware problems.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

The only major difference to normal games in the Harmony menu code is, that selecting something works by releasing the button (like a mouse button in your daily OS), not by pressing it.

 

This was done to support some features, like faster paging, full name display etc.

[Omegamatrix]

Also, on a different but related note, I can't seem to get Tac-Scan to start. Unfortunately I don't have an original copy of Tac-Scan to test, but when I play either the "~" version or the PAL variant from Rom Hunter's collection, it simply won't start when I press fire on either paddle controller. Meanwhile, the same ROM starts up fine in Stella (using fire), and both paddles work fine with other carts. Any ideas?

 

 

On real hardware Tac-Scan needs the paddles to plugged into the right controller port. Stella is just switching the ports around for you automatically.

[+thegoldenband]

I hope this doesn't come over like a lame excuse, but I cannot see, how the Harmony menu code could be responsible for that at all. I will have another look into the code, though I wouldn't expect anything from that.

 

Thomas, I think I've found a case in which it's consistently reproducible (at least on my system). If I navigate to a folder with nothing in it, or only one item in it, then the menu becomes unresponsive to button presses (including holding down the button for long filenames).

 

By slowly rotating through different positions, I can eventually find one where it will respond, but it's only a very narrow slice of the paddle's range. This behavior has been consistent across four different sets of paddles, so it's definitely not the controller.

 

I've also seen the behavior when the menu is partially or completely full, but it's most consistent when the display is reduced to 1-2 entries.

 

On real hardware Tac-Scan needs the paddles to plugged into the right controller port. Stella is just switching the ports around for you automatically.

 

Thanks, my bad on that. We don't have a manual for Tac-Scan on AA, strangely.