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Harmony and paddles


atari2600land

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Thomas, I think I've found a case in which it's consistently reproducible (at least on my system). If I navigate to a folder with nothing in it, or only one item in it, then the menu becomes unresponsive to button presses (including holding down the button for long filenames).

 

By slowly rotating through different positions, I can eventually find one where it will respond, but it's only a very narrow slice of the paddle's range. This behavior has been consistent across four different sets of paddles, so it's definitely not the controller.

The empty/single item sub folders indicate that the menu might rapidly jump in and out the sub folder. This would indicate a bouncing fire button. But then it happens with four different set of paddles, so that only leaves the console/power supply. Or my code.

 

I'll check this out next weekend. Can you try on a different console?

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I'll check this out next weekend. Can you try on a different console?

 

I just tried it on my 7800 with two different pairs of paddles, and got the same result. :(

 

I should mention that I'm occasionally seeing non-responsive button presses even with a full menu -- but when there are only 1-2 items on screen, it happens more often than not. Actually, let me refine that: 1-2 selectable items, since it's happened on the credits screen as well where there's a lot of text but only one selectable menu item.

 

Could the code for Genesis controller support be in any way implicated?

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  • 4 weeks later...

Wouldn't it be possible for you guys to just use a joystick to select a game then when the game loads switch out for the paddle controller? That is the same method I used when I played Sonic the Hedgehog with an Atari 2600 joystick since it had no start button. I would be interested to know because I might get one of these if I get another Atari 7800. (I would skip getting a 2600 console because I would want to minimize space)

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Of course, but swapping controllers puts strain on the 9-pin connector, and over time can wear it out (as happened to my childhood VCS). IIRC the Genesis connector is a bit "looser" and seems less likely to be harmed by swapping. The idea of playing Sonic with a 2600 joystick is funny! :D

 

Thomas, did you happen to do any more research on this one?

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Thomas, did you happen to do any more research on this one?

Yes, I did. I found no bug, but some GUI issue (which I found no solution for, within the limited space I have).

 

If you enter a directory with no or only one entry and the paddle is in scroll up or down position (this means, after you pressed the fire button to enter the directory, you accidentally moved the paddle into that position), you cannot notice that. It will look like the paddle is stationary, but it is constantly scrolling up or down and you therefore cannot select a game.

 

The workarounds are:

a. make sure not to move the paddle when entering a directory.

b. when a. doesn't work, slowly move the paddle and press/release fire until you find the non-scrolling area.

 

Not sure if that is related to the originally reported problem.

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  • 10 years later...

I just got a new Harmony Encore in the mail yesterday. So far it works perfectly with a joystick but I can't navigate the menu with a paddle. The paddle moves the selection indicator, but not correctly. It only moves it back and forth between the "[.]" and the last folder, skipping all other folders, and the paddle's button doesn't do anything. Also, I can't even use the console's select and reset switches to navigate the menu like I can when a joystick is connected, because they are completely non-responsive. So the only way I can play a paddle game is to navigate to and start it with the joystick and then unplug the joystick and plug in the paddles (which work fine in the games, just not in the menu).

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10 hours ago, MaximRecoil said:

I just got a new Harmony Encore in the mail yesterday. So far it works perfectly with a joystick but I can't navigate the menu with a paddle. The paddle moves the selection indicator, but not correctly. It only moves it back and forth between the "[.]" and the last folder, skipping all other folders, and the paddle's button doesn't do anything. Also, I can't even use the console's select and reset switches to navigate the menu like I can when a joystick is connected, because they are completely non-responsive. So the only way I can play a paddle game is to navigate to and start it with the joystick and then unplug the joystick and plug in the paddles (which work fine in the games, just not in the menu).

I just tried it with an Atari 7800 and a 4-switch woodgrain 2600, as well as with a different pair of paddles, and they did the exact same thing as with my heavy 6-switch 2600. Menu navigation doesn't work with the paddles and it doesn't work in exactly the same way on all 3 consoles that I tested it on. The firmware version is 1.06.

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2 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Paddles were never meant for Stella menu navigation, sorry.

What do you mean? Stella the emulator? I'm talking about navigating the Harmony cartridge menu. The Harmony cartridge manual says you can do it:

 

Quote

The menu system can also be navigated with a paddle controller or driving controller in the left port.

 

https://harmony.atariage.com/files/harmony_manual_v2_online.pdf

 

It doesn't work for me though, not on any of the three consoles I tried it on.

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I have two standard (non Encore) Harmony carts and I can navigate the menu with paddles on both of them. The firmware is shared between standard and Encore Harmony cart, so it should work in the same way.

 

The way it works requires a bit of practice:

There's a really small range of rotation that allows to scroll through the entries in a page. Only if you're in this range you can start a game with the button. If you move outside that small range by rotating counterclockwise, it will keep cycling back the pages (if the directory you're browsing has more files than can fit in a single page). To stop the page cycling you have to move the knob back in that previous small range. If you move outside it clockwise it does the same thing, but in this case it cycles the pages forward.

 

So:

1 ensure that you have a reasonably clean and jitter free set of paddles

2 turn the knob slowly across the entire range to learn where the three areas of movement are: cycle pages back, select games in a page, cycles pages forward.

 

Edited by alex_79
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5 hours ago, alex_79 said:

I have two standard (non Encore) Harmony carts and I can navigate the menu with paddles on both of them. The firmware is shared between standard and Encore Harmony cart, so it should work in the same way.

 

The way it works requires a bit of practice:

There's a really small range of rotation that allows to scroll through the entries in a page. Only if you're in this range you can start a game with the button. If you move outside that small range by rotating counterclockwise, it will keep cycling back the pages (if the directory you're browsing has more files than can fit in a single page). To stop the page cycling you have to move the knob back in that previous small range. If you move outside it clockwise it does the same thing, but in this case it cycles the pages forward.

 

So:

1 ensure that you have a reasonably clean and jitter free set of paddles

2 turn the knob slowly across the entire range to learn where the three areas of movement are: cycle pages back, select games in a page, cycles pages forward.

 

Thanks. In my case, after booting to the Harmony cartridge, when I turned the knob it would just move the selection indicator from the "[.]" to the last folder, skipping all other folders, and turning the knob in the other direction from there would just move it back to the "[.]", no matter how slightly I turned it. Even if I found the exact position where it would jump back and forth rapidly and automatically between two selection, it still skipped everything between the last folder and "[.]", plus the paddle's button wouldn't do anything.

 

After reading your post I fiddled with it some more and I discovered that if I turned the knob CCW a little ways there was a point at which it would start moving the selection indicator correctly, and once you're at that point / in that range you can turn the knob in either direction and the selection indicator moves correctly (down for CW and up for CCW), and it doesn't skip any folders and the paddle button works to make a selection. So the paddle's knob needs to be about in the middle of its rotational travel to be in the right range to work correctly. When it's rotated almost all the way CW it will start moving the selection indicator again, but incorrectly, like I described in my first paragraph.

 

Previously I was always turning the knob CW until the selection indicator moved, so I always ended up in the end-of-the-travel range where it doesn't work right.

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7 hours ago, MaximRecoil said:

What do you mean? Stella the emulator? I'm talking about navigating the Harmony cartridge menu. The Harmony cartridge manual says you can do it:

Sorry, I was doing too much Stella lately. :) 

 

Like the joystick, the paddle can do quite a lot:

centered, no fire    : do nothing
centered, fire       : start game (on release)
no fire, centered + n: index++
no fire, centered - n: index--
fire, centered + 1   : page++
fire, centered - 1   : page--
fire, centered + 2..n: page += 10
fire, centered - 2..n: page -= 10

I admit it is not easy too use, but with some practice it should work.

Edited by Thomas Jentzsch
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