flashjazzcat Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) You can mess up the legacy (Y/C) video by hooking up the RGB sync wrongly. I did that a couple of times when creating a gated RGB sync signal by feeding an output of the CD4050 back into the unused gate, and taking RGB sync from the resulting output. First couple of attempts, I didn't realize Atari had tied the unused gate to GND (input or output - I forget which). So a trace needed to be cut. However, in cutting the trace I also clobbered CD4050's GND pin, which wrecked the Y/C output even though the RGB worked. Of course it seems you haven't hooked up a gated sync, but I'm just alerting you to the pitfalls nevertheless. Edited July 6, 2014 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 PS--per an above post of mine, s-video was still working after removing RF. Where are you sourcing the VBXE sync? Since you removed the RF modulator there is no longer a composite signal on the monitor jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonbar Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 All- Thanks for your replies & input. Clearly, I'm stumbling through this & don't grasp what's going on. *blush* --- Here's my progress since last time...well, I don't know if I'd call it "progress," but I did work on it a bit... I attempted to reconnect my RF modulator PCB. When I removed it, I desoldered the 4 large ground/mount joints, but wasn't terribly cautious about the 5 power/signal/whatnot pins on the edge of the board. I damaged the little board during removal. So, I tried to see where the 5 traces had gone & tried to wire it back up--4 of them seemed pretty straightforward, but not the 5th. I tried soldering to a few locations that looked right, but my 130XE still exhibits the same behavior: appears to be putting out OK video in S-Video or RGB mode, but w/ no sync in either mode, and no sound (or perhaps super duper quiet sound). See attached PCB image. I tried jumpering the wire to position 1, position 2, & to both position 1 & 2 simultaneously. All 3 looked the same. @flashjazzcat: sorry, your CD4050 discussion is way over my head--I appreciate the effort, but it's lost on me... :\ @BillC: I was pulling sync from the monitor jack, which I've apparently disconnected... Summary: I am more than happy to pay somebody a fair fee to rescue my poor 130XE. I don't know what else to try at this point, & I'm already clearly not sure what I'm doing. Is there any kind soul out there who can revive my poor 130XE?Thanks so much, -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonbar Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Howdy- I'm resurrecting my old post to see if anybody has: 1 - A 130XE (or equivalent...I presume 65XE?) RF/composite mini PCB 2 - An otherwise broken 130XE that has a good RF mini PCB that I can scavenge 3 - Interest in helping repair mine, perhaps not too difficult if you have an intact unit on hand for comparison. Thanks, -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) Howdy- I'm resurrecting my old post to see if anybody has: 1 - A 130XE (or equivalent...I presume 65XE?) RF/composite mini PCB 2 - An otherwise broken 130XE that has a good RF mini PCB that I can scavenge 3 - Interest in helping repair mine, perhaps not too difficult if you have an intact unit on hand for comparison. Thanks, -Jason Jason, what is exactly RF/Composite mini PCB?. If you're looking for an RF module I may have an extra one here in my parts box. EDIT: Reading old messages in the thread I now know what PCB we are talking about and yes I do have a spare one and I can send it to you for the price of shipping, just PM me and I'll tell you the cost. Do you have Paypal? Edited December 3, 2014 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonbar Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Thanks tons for your offer to ship me an XE's RF modulator. I appreciate it! I have, however, *just* purchased one from myatari.com for $20 shipped. They're just up the coast from me, here in California. I hope to get it in a few days & try to install it. ( PRA023 on http://www.myatari.com/atarixlh.txt ) If things go south or if I need another, I'll be sure to take you up on your generous offer! Thanks, -Jason ...yes I do have a spare one and I can send it to you for the price of shipping, just PM me and I'll tell you the cost. Do you have Paypal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 If things go south or if I need another, I'll be sure to take you up on your generous offer! Thanks, -Jason No problem, anytime... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+JAC! Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) In 2010, I entered a demo compo for the first time and SillyThings became my first winning demo. Back then I received an awesome "as new" 65XE with a VBXE board installed. But it took 4 years until I managed to create the proper "strange 9-pin to SCART" adapter and make it work after several hours with the help of Tigerduck. But the result is amazing. Crystal clear picture on LCD and on CRT via SCART. And even a native test machine for the upcoming SillyPack2k14 which also has 4 VBXE pictures in it. This has been a great day. Edited December 30, 2014 by JAC! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Hello Peter I'm already looking forward to the demos you're gonna write for the VBXE. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk40001 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 In 2010, I entered a demo compo for the first time and SillyThings became my first winning demo. Back then I received an awesome "as new" 65XE with a VBXE board installed. But it took 4 years until I managed to create the proper "strange 9-pin to SCART" adapter and make it work after several hours with the help of Tigerduck. But the result is amazing. Crystal clear picture on LCD and on CRT via SCART. And even a native test machine for the upcoming SillyPack2k14 which also has 4 VBXE pictures in it. This has been a great day. 20141230_215833.jpg 20141230_215901.jpg I think I know how you feel about the vbxe. When I got my machine back with vbxe installed, I thought this was just too good to be true. I like the picture quality on lcd but I do love when connected to crt monitor such as commodore 1084s or atari sc1435. That combination of retro feeling, scanlines, vibrant colours and totally sharp, pixel perfect picture can not be described but must be seen. This thing just spoiled me. I can hardly imagine to return back to s-video. Worth of every Eur spent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonbar Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Time to punt. I installed a new RF modulator. Still can't get an image out of my 130XE VBXE. Last request effort before I sell it off or part out the good bits: anybody for hire to debug/fix/finalize my installation? Or, anybody have for sale a 130XE w/ a VBXE installed?Thanks, -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I'd be happy to offer my services were I not thousands of miles away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 RF modulator shouldn't make a difference for VBXE - the only component of the legacy video required is the CSync signal which you pick off the motherboard. But even if CSync is missing, on a CRT monitor you'd still get a picture, albeit barely recognisable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonbar Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I'd be happy to offer my services were I not thousands of miles away. PM incoming! =D 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjsaville Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Just fitted my vbxe board yesterday to my unmolested 65xe, working great - colours are very intense. Slight issue though, the image background is slightly grainy. Reading through this thread, I think it's similar to the problem flashjazzcat had. My setup is a Samsung Syncmaster T260HD TV Monitor and I've done the scart lead hookup to an atari st port, which I have mounted just above the existing monitor port on the back of the xe case. I'm taking Composite Video (Purple Wire) and Audio (Brown Wire) from the bottom of the circuit board where the monitor pins are soldered on. These connections have been double checked. I tried disconnecting the Comp Video but loose the picture entirely due to loss of sync. I'm looking for a bit of assistance to resolve the grainyness, I thinking I should look for a different location for the Comp Video signal and did try the CSync signal from pin15 of the CD4050 chip but nothing. Any advice would be appreciated. thanks MJ Edited January 8, 2015 by mjsaville Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Gated sync might help. Also ensure RGB out has its own clean GND. But as to the gated sync: If you look at the CD4050 in the Atari schematic, you'll notice there's an unused gate. If you isolate this unused gate you can feed sync out into the gate, and pick sync off the new output. That can make quite a difference to picture stability, although I didn't pay much attention to any effect it had on sharpness or noise. You need to be careful isolating the unused gate: one of the pins (input or output - I forget which) is tied to GND, but if you cut the trace in the wrong place you'll also leave CD4050's GND floating. I did that once and lost the legacy output. Also worth fiddling with cable and wire routing in case you're picking up any noise. EDIT: Nice clean looking installation, BTW. Edited January 8, 2015 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjsaville Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Flashjazzcat thanks for the super quick reply. Forgot to say its 130xe, not a 65xe (that's another of my atari's). Okay I will go and modify the gnd wire going to the new monitor connection (remove it from Pin1 of J4 on VBXE board and pick it from somewhere clean on the main pcb. As for the gated sync, sounds interesting although you need to bare with me as I'm a techy guy but not an electronics guru. I've pulled a web page showing the stock 130xe video circuit (see below) you can see the gates used 2, 4, 6, 12 & 15. Also the datasheet for the CD4050BCN chip (below 2) and you are right there is a gate free (pin 10). Looking at the atari board pin 10 has no connection pin 9 has a feed coming from some resistors. Is it correct to - issolate / cut the track going to pin 9, then feed the comp video signal from the original monitor jack into pin 9, then take the cleaned comp video / sync output from pin 10 straight to pin 20 on the scart cable ? thanks again for your help, very much appreciated. MJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Leave GND on J4 - that's fine as it is. I meant not to tie GND to anything else. Taking a few pics of the underside of the 130XE board... Edited January 8, 2015 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Right: I see I did it the easy way this time and left the pins out of the socket to avoid the perils of cutting the chip's GND trace. Pretty simple: bend up only pins 9 and 10 so they're horizontal, snip them short, add a jumper wire from pin 15 (output) to the lifted pin 9 (input), and pin 10 is your new sync output, wired straight to the monitor jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 You guys do love to torture these poor old machines (treat this as jealousy ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjsaville Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Right: I see I did it the easy way this time and left the pins out of the socket to avoid the perils of cutting the chip's GND trace. Pretty simple: bend up only pins 9 and 10 so they're horizontal, snip them short, add a jumper wire from pin 15 (output) to the lifted pin 9 (input), and pin 10 is your new sync output, wired straight to the monitor jack. Okay, sounds fine - I think I'll unsolder the chip and fit a socket (gives me more flexibility). The only issue is I'm using the scart port rather than vga connector (DB9) - I thought csync (pin 15) was only for monitor port. Can I use this instead of Composite Video then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Yes, this sync will do for SCART and DB9: I have cables made up for both. Definitely socket CD4050. What I did at first before fitting the socket was sever GND to one of the unused pins on the topside of the board but it wasn't till I reassembled it that I realised ground on the chip was left floating since it's fed off the same trace. So socketed chip with two lifted legs is how it ended up. Not as neat as wiring to the underside of the board, but at least it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjsaville Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Great Stuff, just done the mod - fitted the socket pins - bent up pins 9 + 10 as discussed. Existing Composite Video purple wire disconnected from new monitor port. New board layout is as follows - Using the pink wire from pin 15 to 9, then pulling cleaned sync from pin 10 to new monitor port (white wire). Grainyness now gone but the picture is not stable, screen does a flicker every 6 - 10 secs, I've taken a quick video - see below (I'm guessing its a timing issue), what do you think? Having difficulty linking the video file, try this url - http://vid87.photobucket.com/albums/k123/mjsaville/CD4050%20mod%20with%20unused%20gate%20-%20Picture%20unstable_zpsb4h3rv8m.mp4 Very nearly there though, I have also tried just using the output from pin15 directly as sync, picture quality still better than I had before (not as good as when I use the spare gate), but the 6-10 second screen flicker remains. Very weird - what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I had the exact same issue (periodic flickering) with - at the time - my chosen display device, an LG M227WD LCD TV. This was before I did the gated sync mod, which in that instance fixed it. But Candle had previously suggested another mod which also worked. Trouble is, I took the mod to bits and can't remember how it worked. Basically, its purpose was to attenuate the sync signal, which (according to Candle) was perhaps a bit strong. I can tell you the components: a three-legged variable resistor, and 10uf electrolytic capacitor. ...never mind - found it: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/142283-vbxe-2/page-32?do=findComment&comment=1917871 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjsaville Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Wow you must have the forum on speed dial, lightening response here...... Okay, great info here - I have a 10uf cap in the house but need to source a variable resistor. it appears Maplin don't sell them so will double check again then off to ebay. Might take a couple of days to get parts and rig something up, but very much appreciated. You are the man... I'll be back in touch shortly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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