Andromeda Stardust Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I played several games this morning and noticed when you have the hammer on the second girder of the first stage, barrels no longer roll down to hit! This is one thing that somewhat annoys me with this port. I haven't played the latest release yet, but the hammer is basically required to kill the fireball (you can technically jump over the fireball, but you risk death if the fireball switches direction, causing mario to land on it). Once I destroy the fireball, I am left holding the hammer with nothing to do until the hammer time expires. Maybe you could allow the barrels to drop down one additional level after the fireball is destroyed. That would allow the player to destroy additional barrel sprites with the hammer after defeating the fireball. Otherwise wasting precious seconds by wagging the hammer until the timer expires with no enemy sprites to destroy with it is lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS_Dracon Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 The jump is five blocks (5*4 pixels) wide. In the arcade version it's three blocks (3*8 pixels). I experimented with shortening it, but found that it makes jumping over enemies too hard, so I decided to leave it as it is. I think a short jump would add a good difficult your game needs. It is difficult to jump over the enemies in the arcade, that's what you need learn to master the game. You can work with enemy collision tolerance to balance that. There's even room for more ladder graphics, but it would require a lot of code (in a different bank). If your kernel support, you can use an indirect indexed addressing to point the ladder graphics to PF. Draw some blank lines below the ladder gfx, then adjust the pointer to "show" some of these blank lines. You can simulate the animation with few bytes. The game is great as that, BTW, it's just nitpicking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Musashi Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 I think a short jump would add a good difficult your game needs. It is difficult to jump over the enemies in the arcade, that's what you need learn to master the game. You can work with enemy collision tolerance to balance that. The enemy collision tolerance was added because people found it too hard otherwise. Shortening the jump would take that away. I've been watching some people play and my impression is that it seems as hard for them as the arcade version was for me back in the day. For expert players that want a challenge it's possible to start out at level 9 (press up while pushing the button.) If your kernel support, you can use an indirect indexed addressing to point the ladder graphics to PF. Draw some blank lines below the ladder gfx, then adjust the pointer to "show" some of these blank lines. You can simulate the animation with few bytes. The game is great as that, BTW, it's just nitpicking. That is a clever idea! I thought about just switching between a half and a complete ladder. But your are right, by changing the index the ladder could go up and down smoothly. If that could be made to work it would be really cool. I would estimate 30-50 bytes for the program, that will be tough. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 That is a clever idea! I thought about just switching between a half and a complete ladder. But your are right, by changing the index the ladder could go up and down smoothly. If that could be made to work it would be really cool. I would estimate 30-50 bytes for the program, that will be tough. You can do it. This reminded me that there should be a wiki set up with byte saving techniques and code snippets all aimed at programming for the 2600. There is so much that could be added to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Musashi Posted April 11, 2016 Author Share Posted April 11, 2016 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd-w Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) That looks like emacs on a WYSE terminal! I used a similar setup back in the early 90s. I miss the distraction free experience, but the lack of graphics was a pain sometimes. Chris Edited April 12, 2016 by cd-w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Musashi Posted April 12, 2016 Author Share Posted April 12, 2016 Almost. It's emacs in Cathode. I occasionally use it as a shell when doing 2600 programming (what else would one use a retro-styled terminal program for ). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Musashi Posted April 12, 2016 Author Share Posted April 12, 2016 Get ready... for the next feature packed update! What's new: You can now use SELECT to choose a starting level (L=1-9) during the climbing sequence. The buttons on both the left and right controllers can be used to jump. What's this good for? It can be used for simple cooperative game play, where one player (left) controls Mario's direction, while the other player (right) controls jumping. You now have to use the elevator. As per Ivan's suggestion, the width of the right elevator shaft has been increased at the top. You can still jump over the left shaft, but not over the right one anymore. A heart for fiery fiends: enemies killed with the hammer will be re-spawned. In the girder stage the interval will decrease with the level. Be prepared to kill more than one fireball from level 2 on. In the rivet stage the flame is re-spawned when the hammer is gone. And... the pie factory got smoothly moving telescope ladders, which will make you more nervous when getting to the second conveyor. Enjoy! D.K.VCS_160412_NTSC.bin D.K.VCS_160412_PAL60.bin 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo-Torch Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Love the reduced flicker. And you worked in bonus items! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Wow - this is really shaping up!! Did the length of the jump change in this revision though? Seems like your jumps take you much farther, which is a problem especially on the elevator stage. When jumping on to the first elevator, you almost miss it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 This is getting excellent! Some suggestions (I am no expert of the game): It should be possible to abort the intro with fire. It is nice, but after a while you just want to play the game again. Also, in the arcade, the horizontal movement stops when you press up. This may help aligning to the ladders. What doesn't work in the arcade too, is reacting to diagonal input, which I would prefer most. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Cathode.png Holy cow! People still program on those! Get ready... for the next feature packed update! Thanx, you're the best! Gotta go fire up the Harmony now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arenafoot Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Wow - this is really shaping up!! Did the length of the jump change in this revision though? Seems like your jumps take you much farther, which is a problem especially on the elevator stage. When jumping on to the first elevator, you almost miss it! I can't get past this level because of this. I land on the elevator and die every time, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo-Torch Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 I've made it through level 3. The jump length just took a bit of trial and error on the elevator stages. I actually like having to time things just right on the area where the elevator goes down. Getting to the bonus item and then back past the springs without falling can be tricky but definitely doable. The current jump length does work very well when trying to jump over fireballs. So far I haven't been able to get past the barrel screen on level 3. I get killed every time while trying to get to the top girder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Holy cow! People still program on those! This is sooo cool! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 I can't get past this level because of this. I land on the elevator and die every time, I played earlier today and wasted my last two lives on the elevator stage. You can actually jump over the first elevator if you climb to the top. What threw me off was the second elevator. In previous revisions, you could jump across both sections. This was a throwback to early revisions when the elevators didn't work. Not anymore. I took that leap of faith and fell to my death... I don't know how set in stone the kernel is, but perhaps the jump could be shortened only on the elevator stage, so we don't overshoot the platforms. As is, jumpman overshoots the elevator and falls in the gap between the elevator and next platform. I have to stand on the back edge of the platform to jump forward so I don't overshoot. IMO it feels unintuitive and a bit unfair. Otherwise on the barrel, pie, and rivet stages, the jump length is perfect. He needs to have a nice arc to clear barrels, pies, and fireballs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Musashi Posted April 14, 2016 Author Share Posted April 14, 2016 Wow - this is really shaping up!! Did the length of the jump change in this revision though? Seems like your jumps take you much farther, which is a problem especially on the elevator stage. When jumping on to the first elevator, you almost miss it! Nope. It hasn't been changed. It should be exactly 5 blocks. This is getting excellent! Thanks! Some suggestions (I am no expert of the game): It should be possible to abort the intro with fire. It is nice, but after a while you just want to play the game again. Also, in the arcade, the horizontal movement stops when you press up. This may help aligning to the ladders. What doesn't work in the arcade too, is reacting to diagonal input, which I would prefer most. I tried aborting the intro once, but clearing the audio when going from one screen to the next caused noise. Also, the abrupt change felt like there was something wrong. I could do it if the audio could be faded out, for which I did not want to invest the code so far. However, now that all the features I wanted are in, it might be worth another look. The bank containing the intro still does have some free space. The diagonal input is intentional to prevent Mario from stopping if the controller is accidentally not exactly pushed left or right. I tested once against MAME and I like it better this way. I played earlier today and wasted my last two lives on the elevator stage. You can actually jump over the first elevator if you climb to the top. What threw me off was the second elevator. In previous revisions, you could jump across both sections. This was a throwback to early revisions when the elevators didn't work. Not anymore. I took that leap of faith and fell to my death... I don't know how set in stone the kernel is, but perhaps the jump could be shortened only on the elevator stage, so we don't overshoot the platforms. As is, jumpman overshoots the elevator and falls in the gap between the elevator and next platform. I have to stand on the back edge of the platform to jump forward so I don't overshoot. IMO it feels unintuitive and a bit unfair. Otherwise on the barrel, pie, and rivet stages, the jump length is perfect. He needs to have a nice arc to clear barrels, pies, and fireballs. I think having a different jump distance just in one stage would feel too irritating. I agree that jumping in stage 3 may be unusual and not exactly easy, but I don't think it's unfair, you just have to find the right strategy. At the first elevator you don't have to walk to the left, you can let it catch you in the middle of your jump. For people having difficulties to get past this stage I've attached a video that shows one way to do it. DK_Stage3.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Okay, so 5 blocks is probably 1 too many then. Shouldn't be very easy to jump over a fireball anyway. If you're in a tweaking mood, may I suggest that the jump spacing be taken down a block please? Might be the best overall equalization between the elevator stage and the rest. Elevator stage just feels so unnatural compared to the rest of the levels as is IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arenafoot Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 I played earlier today and wasted my last two lives on the elevator stage. You can actually jump over the first elevator if you climb to the top. What threw me off was the second elevator. In previous revisions, you could jump across both sections. This was a throwback to early revisions when the elevators didn't work. Not anymore. I took that leap of faith and fell to my death... I don't know how set in stone the kernel is, but perhaps the jump could be shortened only on the elevator stage, so we don't overshoot the platforms. As is, jumpman overshoots the elevator and falls in the gap between the elevator and next platform. I have to stand on the back edge of the platform to jump forward so I don't overshoot. IMO it feels unintuitive and a bit unfair. Otherwise on the barrel, pie, and rivet stages, the jump length is perfect. He needs to have a nice arc to clear barrels, pies, and fireballs. exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeneerJansen Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Again, thank you very much for making this homebrew. Donkey Kong has always been my favorite arcade game and this port to the Atari 2600 is the best homebrews I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS_Dracon Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 I don't have problems jumping on second elevator... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 I don't have problems jumping on second elevator... Yeah, but look how far away you have to stand in order to make it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 The diagonal input is intentional to prevent Mario from stopping if the controller is accidentally not exactly pushed left or right. I tested once against MAME and I like it better this way. I think I didn't make myself clear. I really like diagonal input. But e.g. in stage 1, when I push up and left when coming to a ladder, Mario continues moving left. "Intelligent" diagonals would take the new direction and Mario would climb the ladder. Then I would press up and left, and when Mario reaches the top of the ladder he would switch to moving left. Regarding the intro: When Donkey Kong jumps in the arcade, the platform changes shape. I know this is not possible here, but how about some other change? Any platform reaction the jump would do. E.g. the platform initially shows no diagonals and those get created when D.K. jumps. Or the whole platform moves a bit down with each jump. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Musashi Posted April 15, 2016 Author Share Posted April 15, 2016 Okay, so 5 blocks is probably 1 too many then. Shouldn't be very easy to jump over a fireball anyway. If you're in a tweaking mood, may I suggest that the jump spacing be taken down a block please? Might be the best overall equalization between the elevator stage and the rest. Elevator stage just feels so unnatural compared to the rest of the levels as is IMO. Even 4.5 blocks was bad with the barrels when I tried last. But come to think of it, I never really experimented with changing the height of the jump. Maybe that could help. I'll give it another shot. I absolutely agree that in the elevator stage 4 blocks would be better. This would have several advantages. Not only could you not jump over either elevator shaft anymore, you would also not have to step back from edges (or at least not so far). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Musashi Posted April 15, 2016 Author Share Posted April 15, 2016 Again, thank you very much for making this homebrew. Donkey Kong has always been my favorite arcade game and this port to the Atari 2600 is the best homebrews I've seen. Thanks! It's nice to see if people like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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