D.K. VCS

[Joe Musashi]

I think I didn't make myself clear. I really like diagonal input. But e.g. in stage 1, when I push up and left when coming to a ladder, Mario continues moving left.

 

"Intelligent" diagonals would take the new direction and Mario would climb the ladder. Then I would press up and left, and when Mario reaches the top of the ladder he would switch to moving left.

 

Not sure if I get all of this, but if diagonal input would trigger climbing a ladder, it would mean Mario would automatically climb any ladder he reaches (when running with a diagonal direction pressed). While this may be good in some situations it may be bad in others. Basically, you need to prioritize horizontal and vertical movement at a ladder. Since you are more vulnerable on a ladder, I'm not sure if "automatic climbing" would be a good idea.

 

Reaching the end of a ladder is a different situation, however. Here you need to get quickly off the ladder. I'll think about it.

 

Regarding the intro: When Donkey Kong jumps in the arcade, the platform changes shape. I know this is not possible here, but how about some other change? Any platform reaction the jump would do. E.g. the platform initially shows no diagonals and those get created when D.K. jumps. Or the whole platform moves a bit down with each jump.

 

There is probably no space for additional playfield graphics. But there would be room to lower the girder Kong stands on. I'll try it.

 

[Joe Musashi]

Here's an experimental version with a shortened jump distance.

 

As before, the duration of Mario's jump is exactly as in the arcade version. The original jump takes 40 60Hz frames, which are 20 30Hz frames here. Also, the vertical movement is the same as in the arcade.

 

The difference before was that the horizontal distance was 5 blocks (5*4 (wide) pixels), whereas the arcade version uses 3 blocks (3*8 pixels). Now the horizontal distance has been shortened to 4 blocks. Since the jump duration has not changed, the horizontal jump speed is lower than the speed when walking. This is also what the arcade version does, however, it's more noticeable here because of the wide pixels.

 

Jumping straight up from a standing position should work the same a before. Jumping when running is more difficult now but should still be OK. I think, the elevator stage became considerably more playable. Both elevator shafts are now 5 blocks wide at the top and cannot be crossed without using the elevator.

 

There hasn't been much testing and I don't know if this broke anything. To make testing more easier, this version has an infinite lives cheat enabled.

 

Oh, and the intro sequence has also been modified.

 

D.K.VCS_TEST_160418_NTSC.bin

D.K.VCS_TEST_160418_PAL60.bin

[KAZ]

I'm gonna try this right now, thanks for the tweaks Joe!

[KAZ]

The elevator stage is very nice now, I like the new jumping distance change! I also like how I was able to die when I had a hammer in my hand against a fireball (arcade realism).

 

Could you make it so Mario dies after falling for a just a tiny bit longer? I tried to jump to the second elevator from the top ledge, and it counted as 'falling too far' (even tho I made the jump to the platform and it didn't seem like an extreme 'fall'). Just if this is possible or if you agree this is a valid issue.

 

Or maybe make it impossible to die if you 'fall/jump' onto an elevator platform (so it doesn't break other places in the game when you fall-like the rivets stage).

 

I was able to easily get by the elevator stage, so the improvements were very good!

 

Thanks to the infinite lives, I made it to the pie factory also!

Edited April 18, 2016 by KAZ

[LS_Dracon]

I must admit the jump is much better now!

You can't loose life in this version but I think it is a debug feature you forget?

And the fire fox is trying to climb the ladder, that's nice!

Edited April 18, 2016 by LS_Dracon

[KAZ]

Quote by Joe: "To make testing more easier, this version has an infinite lives cheat enabled."

 

Just fyi

Edited April 19, 2016 by KAZ

[Turbo-Torch]

You nailed it! The jump duration is perfect for all screens and I'm still able to clear fireballs.

 

I have a few suggestions that may or may not be possible. I like how you made the ladders move in the mud pie factory, but there's no added danger. Would it be possible to make jump-man drop down when the ladder retracts so that he would be in the path of a mud pie? That would make that level so much more challenging.

 

On the elevator stage, would it be possible to move the bonus item to the lower right corner just to make it more involved to get to?

 

Lastly, could the springs vary more in distance when they drop...make it a bit more dangerous and unpredictable?

[Turbo-Torch]

Could you make it so Mario dies after falling for a just a tiny bit longer? I tried to jump to the second elevator from the top ledge, and it counted as 'falling too far' (even tho I made the jump to the platform and it didn't seem like an extreme 'fall'). Just if this is possible or if you agree this is a valid issue.

 

Are you playing this on a real 2600? The fall distance appears to be spot on compared to the arcade version.

[KAZ]

I played on Stella. It was just that one jump that I wonder about. I jumped from the top of the middle area, to the second moving elevator platform when it just started to come down. In the arcade, I think I'm able to make that jump without dying from 'falling too far'. The rest of the 'falling too far' seemed fine, of course.

 

Can you try out this same jump, and see if you can make it? Maybe my timing was off.

 

I could load it up on my harmony cart, and try it out

[Turbo-Torch]

After reading your original post, I went to the elevator stage and made that jump multiple times until I died from falling too far. I think he achieved perfection...any more leeway and it would deviate from the arcade game. I am playing on a real 2600 and crt TV. Could be a timing issue with emulators/lcd? Definitely try it out on your Harmony cartridge.

 

With the unlimited lives, it was fun to experiment. I even tried to see if I could trick the game by quickly jumping to the first elevator and then off again and landing on the bottom floor while surviving (and getting stuck in limbo). Just like the arcade game, it's instant death.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Turbo-Torch

[Trebor]

The latest (test) version posted, D.K.VCS_TEST_160418, by far, has the best jump for this port.

 

Quite excellently proportioned now, please lock those jumps in.

[+save2600]

The latest (test) version posted, D.K.VCS_TEST_160418, by far, has the best jump for this port.

 

Quite excellently proportioned now, please lock those jumps in.

 

 

Agree!! Has got that fine-tuned feel to it now. With the added bonus of a little more heart pounding excitement when jumping over things too!

[KAZ]

After reading your original post, I went to the elevator stage and made that jump multiple times until I died from falling too far. I think he achieved perfection...any more leeway and it would deviate from the arcade game. I am playing on a real 2600 and crt TV. Could be a timing issue with emulators/lcd? Definitely try it out on your Harmony cartridge.

 

With the unlimited lives, it was fun to experiment. I even tried to see if I could trick the game by quickly jumping to the first elevator and then off again and landing on the bottom floor while surviving (and getting stuck in limbo). Just like the arcade game, it's instant death.

Thanks for testing my jump scenario out (specifically how far you can fall and it registers death). I agree with others, the jump distance is perfect now. Much more exciting to make it over barrels with less room to spare.

 

 

I also want to check the arcade donkey kong to see if I can die jumping on the same elevator platform (middle section) (falling too far).

 

Edit: Tried arcade, and yep, I fell too far and died on the middle top elevator platform. He doesn't have to fall too far for it to register death either (arcade). I didn't realize you could die like that (jumping a tiny bit late to a platform) (I even made a late jump on purpose, but not too extreme, and it doesn't take much to kill Mario.)

 

Ironically, Mario can fall from millions of miles in Super Mario Brothers, lol!

Edited April 19, 2016 by KAZ

[Joe Musashi]

You nailed it! The jump duration is perfect for all screens and I'm still able to clear fireballs.

 

I have a few suggestions that may or may not be possible. I like how you made the ladders move in the mud pie factory, but there's no added danger. Would it be possible to make jump-man drop down when the ladder retracts so that he would be in the path of a mud pie? That would make that level so much more challenging.

 

On the elevator stage, would it be possible to move the bonus item to the lower right corner just to make it more involved to get to?

 

Lastly, could the springs vary more in distance when they drop...make it a bit more dangerous and unpredictable?

 

Thanks! These are no bad ideas, still I would prefer not to deviate from the arcade version here. But I'll explain:

 

In the arcade, when climbing a retracted ladder, you can climb high enough so that the pies move by below you without generating a hit. The danger comes from the fireball that can still get you. In theory, here it would be possible to let the fireball climb to the conveyor when there's no pie. But that would require a relatively large amount of code and cannot be done with a simple hack.

 

The bonus item is placed one block left from ladder number three. That's also the original layout.

 

With regard to the movement pattern of the springs there are some constraints. Mario must be save in the spot above the ladder that leads to the platform below Kong. Also he must be save directly below Kong (Pauline in the arcade). The springs cannot not jump higher because of the sprite multiplexing. This limits possible variations, but I can have another look.

[Joe Musashi]

Edit: Tried arcade, and yep, I fell too far and died on the middle top elevator platform. He doesn't have to fall too far for it to register death either (arcade). I didn't realize you could die like that (jumping a tiny bit late to a platform) (I even made a late jump on purpose, but not too extreme, and it doesn't take much to kill Mario.)

 

Ironically, Mario can fall from millions of miles in Super Mario Brothers, lol!

 

In the arcade game from L=2 on (when the elevator speed is high) it happens that when Mario jumps up straight while moving down on the right elevator, he will die when he lands again on the platform.

 

The "falling-too-far-threshold" I'm using has been chosen so that this is replicated. Actually, Mario's speed increases gradually when falling. If the speed gets above the threshold he's done for.

[Joe Musashi]

Sorry, double post. Please delete.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Joe Musashi

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I your attention to detail!

 

This is the kind of polishing which too many rushed games are missing. Great job!

[Turbo-Torch]

In the arcade, when climbing a retracted ladder, you can climb high enough so that the pies move by below you without generating a hit. The danger comes from the fireball that can still get you. In theory, here it would be possible to let the fireball climb to the conveyor when there's no pie. But that would require a relatively large amount of code and cannot be done with a simple hack.

 

I sort of figured getting a fireball up there would not be possible and allowing a pie to touch him could be a compromise.

Would it be possible to allow variations of the game using the select switch?

 

With regard to the movement pattern of the springs there are some constraints. Mario must be save in the spot above the ladder that leads to the platform below Kong. Also he must be save directly below Kong (Pauline in the arcade). The springs cannot not jump higher because of the sprite multiplexing. This limits possible variations, but I can have another look.

 

I wasn't sure if that could be changed to 2 or 3 different types of spring patterns like in the arcade while keeping the safe spots or just changed after the last bounce off the top girder. Sounds like keeping the safe spots would be very difficult. Or maybe after 100,000 points, put in a surprise where the elevators and springs move really fast to challenge the most skilled players?

[Andromeda Stardust]

I don't have problems jumping on second elevator...

But that just feels so unnatural and not at all like the arcade. Most platformers, you wanna be as close to the edge as possible when you make that leap. I should be able to leap off the edge and not overshoot the platform by a country mile. This is Donkey Kong physics, not Super Mario, Megaman, or some other 3rd generation platformers where your trajectory is based on initial speed and you can control your descent. In Donkey Kong, you either jump straight up or diagonally. There's no mid air steering.

 

Here's an experimental version with a shortened jump distance.

I'll have to load this on Harmony this weekend, thanks. I'm a bit concerned that barrel jumping may become too difficult in the early rounds though.

[Andromeda Stardust]

With the unlimited lives, it was fun to experiment. I even tried to see if I could trick the game by quickly jumping to the first elevator and then off again and landing on the bottom floor while surviving (and getting stuck in limbo). Just like the arcade game, it's instant death.

In NES Remix for Wii-U/3DS, there is a goal that has Mario to do the double jump and walk around on the bottom. I have no idea if it's even possible in the arcade, but on NES you pretty much get "stuck" as your jump is only two tiles high and you have to double jump off the elevator before it vanishes. There is not enough time to do this and clear the lower platform, I don't think.

[+save2600]

I'm a bit concerned that barrel jumping may become too difficult in the early rounds though.

It's not. The game is still super easy by D.K. standards.

[Joe Musashi]

In NES Remix for Wii-U/3DS, there is a goal that has Mario to do the double jump and walk around on the bottom. I have no idea if it's even possible in the arcade, but on NES you pretty much get "stuck" as your jump is only two tiles high and you have to double jump off the elevator before it vanishes. There is not enough time to do this and clear the lower platform, I don't think.

 

It shouldn't be possible in the arcade version. There's an explicit check.

; elevators only

26FD  3A0562    LD      A,(#6205)       ; load A with mario's Y position
2700  FEF0      CP      #F0             ; is mario too low ?
2702  D27F27    JP      NC,#277F        ; yes, then mario dead

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

 

It shouldn't be possible in the arcade version. There's an explicit check.

; elevators only

26FD  3A0562    LD      A,(#6205)       ; load A with mario's Y position
2700  FEF0      CP      #F0             ; is mario too low ?
2702  D27F27    JP      NC,#277F        ; yes, then mario dead

As I said, you can pull it off on the NES (and subsequently on the emulated version in NES Remix), but you basically get trapped on the bottom as there is not enough height in Mario's jumpto leap from ground to elevator to platform while the elevator descends. Also touching the pink tiles at the top or bottom of the elevator shaft will kill you, making jump timing tricky. Bottom line, you can access the floor on the NES port, but cannot get back into the stage without dying.

 

There are a few other tricks in the NES version that don't work in the arcade. For instance on the barrel stage, Mario can hang out on a ladder with the top of his hat one pixel below the floor, and the barrels will roll on by. Attempting this trick in the arcade is to commit suicide, as I unfortunately learned the hard way on my Raspberry Pi MAME cab...

[Turbo-Torch]

After putting some time into playing, I have to take a few things back. I noticed the springs do vary in distance and it appears at 3 different areas just like the arcade game. When I played the other night I could have swore they dropped in the same location every time. I played up to 200,000 points tonight and did notice that at level 9 on up (9 being last level for counter) they appeared to only drop in one fixed location. Also I did get hit by a spring while exiting the ladder at the safe spot but it may have been a fluke...then again I don't think that area is always safe in the arcade game?

 

The pie factory gets very challenging and fun at the higher levels. Bringing jump-man back down with the retracting ladders as I suggested earlier may make things far too difficult. Would it be possible to simply ramp up the pie factory difficulty in the earlier stages? Up through about level 5, it's super easy.

[Joe Musashi]

As I said, you can pull it off on the NES (and subsequently on the emulated version in NES Remix), but you basically get trapped on the bottom as there is not enough height in Mario's jumpto leap from ground to elevator to platform while the elevator descends. Also touching the pink tiles at the top or bottom of the elevator shaft will kill you, making jump timing tricky. Bottom line, you can access the floor on the NES port, but cannot get back into the stage without dying.

Interesting, I tried the 2010 NES version, and you can easily get to the bottom platform. You can even get back if you walk over the left elevator engine and jump right before the platform appears.

 

There are a few other tricks in the NES version that don't work in the arcade. For instance on the barrel stage, Mario can hang out on a ladder with the top of his hat one pixel below the floor, and the barrels will roll on by. Attempting this trick in the arcade is to commit suicide, as I unfortunately learned the hard way on my Raspberry Pi MAME cab...

If you don't mind the Japanese screen order, you can use dkongj in MAME. This should support the ladder trick.