JamesD Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Unfortunately, even the hottest home computer ever probably wouldn't have plugged the massive loss in revenue that TI suffered in 1983. Keep in mind that the video game crash occured at the same time too... I don't think any hardware breakthroughs would have altered the state of the market enough to change history in that regard. Also, TI had one major flaw in their approach to the home computer market; they did not cultivate a strong third-party developer base. Their architecture was radically different from anything else on the market. They provided little to no documentation on programming in TMS9900 assembly, which meant most 3rd party software was BASIC or Extended BASIC. AND they discouraged third-party developer companies by putting lock-chips in the consoles. Adamantyr People seem to forget that companies that didn't shoot themselves in the foot had products that survived the "crash". The C64, CoCo and Apple II survived to sell into the '90s in spite of the "crash" and the intro of 16/32 bit machines. Had TI not tried to be the sales leader by entering a price war with cheaper to build machines, they might have been in that group of survivors and TI certainly had a large enough user base to attract developers at any time if they had wised up and opened up the system to developers. If TI had released the 99/8 they certainly could have done alright as long as they stayed out of the price war. I think TI might have had to add an 80 column mode to remain competitive though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew180 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 thankyou rocky ... it was a dream to have... for me It's like having a beautiful and rare work of art ... <snip> ...how much is expensive to be lovesick for ti99 ... And when you bought this piece of art/history, you made a little history yourself. It is pretty neat to see some of the most passionate collectors are in our little "TI" world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Oh yes, and congratulations on your win! And when you bought this piece of art/history, you made a little history yourself. It is pretty neat to see some of the most passionate collectors are in our little "TI" world. Thank you Friends ... yes... i am very happy and i can't wait to have the computer... now it's in Indiana state just in Italy is not a good time because there is the crisis and so, a lot of people is not agree with me about this high price... but the desire to have an 8 is too big and i do what i can to do... another dream is to live near you all... but this at now it's very hard to realize Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kl99 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Maybe mizapf can help you instruct how to dump the system rom and the p-code rom to share both versions with the community. As far as I know the demand for this is still there. Btw - i found proof that there might have been more 99/8 produced than we thought. John Phillips (famous programmer) got serial #200 of the TI-99/8 prototypes - directly from Texas Instruments as a bonus for his work. i saw the scanned signed TI letter with this info on a Bill Gaskill Cd-rom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky007 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 just in Italy is not a good time because there is the crisis and so, a lot of people is not agree with me about this high price... but the desire to have an 8 is too big and i do what i can to do... maybe they'll agree with you when the value of computer will double in 10 years... You bought a rare piece of electronic art, it's like buying a Andy warhol paint, people without passion of TI can't understand, so don't worry..for me, you did the right choice It's not a Parsec cartridge, it's a very rare, nearly working, computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 maybe they'll agree with you when the value of computer will double in 10 years... Well, I do not believe that computers (such as C65 or TI 99/8 or more) in the future (about 10 years or more), keep this value or value will be highest ... prices so high and the search for machines of this type is only in our generation .... the new generations have grown up with Windows Seven or Apple or Nintendo DS not seek these computers ... but i think will born: "Playstation User Club" or "Nintendo DS User" or "IPhone User Club" I think the price will go down instead of getting up ... I do not believe in an investment of this type ... In fact, I bought it for myself ... just ... without thinking about investments .... .....of course that's just my opinion, and in my own interest I hope to be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Maybe mizapf can help you instruct how to dump the system rom and the p-code rom to share both versions with the community. As far as I know the demand for this is still there. I have no experience or electronic equipment, apart my a simply soldering iron if this thing can be done without risk of damaging the computer, I will be glad to help ... helping us is in the blood and in the spirit of the 99ers people ... maybe not all ... but I got it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hloberg Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I have no experience or electronic equipment, apart my a simply soldering iron if this thing can be done without risk of damaging the computer, I will be glad to help ... helping us is in the blood and in the spirit of the 99ers people ... maybe not all ... but I got it Couple things: 1, Dumping ROMS, I think, all you need is a program that reads the ROMS to disk, tape or whatever. Shouldn't even have to open the computer up. 2. Also, your Italian club website looks real great. good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) Couple things: 1, Dumping ROMS, I think, all you need is a program that reads the ROMS to disk, tape or whatever. Shouldn't even have to open the computer up. Good to know, i hope this will be so easy ! 2. Also, your Italian club website looks real great. good job. Thank you, i am doing a new section and some news for next days... i hope to do a good work for the TIer community Edited February 9, 2013 by ti99userclub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+acadiel Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) The guy who sold this must have a mega vintage prototype collection. He also has a C65 that is going for almost $5000... eBay Auction -- Item Number: 251222396687 BTW, I was the one that originally submitted the article to C|Net. Figured our little Orphan computer could use a good article since the opportunity (i.e. the 99/8) came up. Edited February 10, 2013 by acadiel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 The guy who sold this must have a mega vintage prototype collection. He also has a C65 that is going for almost $5000... eBay Auction -- Item Number: 251222396687 BTW, I was the one that originally submitted the article to C|Net. Figured our little Orphan computer could use a good article since the opportunity (i.e. the 99/8) came up. And there was another machine in the $3000+ range the other day but I don't remember what it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CantStopClicking Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Would be interesting to hear the sellers story(s) behind his acquisition of those rare machines he's been auctioning off. And thanks Acadiel for submitting to c|net, that was cool. -Dano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Couple things: 1, Dumping ROMS, I think, all you need is a program that reads the ROMS to disk, tape or whatever. Shouldn't even have to open the computer up. 2. Also, your Italian club website looks real great. good job. The challenge is to get a program into the console and to save the dump data on a disk. If you have means for exchanging files between a PC and a TI-formatted disk this would be great. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hloberg Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) The challenge is to get a program into the console and to save the dump data on a disk. If you have means for exchanging files between a PC and a TI-formatted disk this would be great. Michael If I understand the history there were various builds of the 99/8 so it's going to be interesting to see if he can get a disk drive to work on it.But, he can at least use a tape drive. A tape to .wav to TIfiles converter works fairly well. I used on once. That might be an option. Edited February 10, 2013 by hloberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 If I understand the history there were various builds of the 99/8 so it's going to be interesting to see if he can get a disk drive to work on it. But, he can at least use a tape drive. A tape to .wav to TIfiles converter works fairly well. I used on once. That might be an option. The challenge is to get a program into the console and to save the dump data on a disk. If you have means for exchanging files between a PC and a TI-formatted disk this would be great. Well if it can help i have a PEB with two drives and an HXC SD Card... otherwise i have a 5.25" HexBus Drive... maybe i will need a guide and software ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Disk controllers in the PEB work fine if you happen to have an Armadillo Interface card suitable for use with the type of motherboard on your 99/8. As Ciro noted, he has a HexBus floppy drive--and that option will also work. Note that if it is used with a Double Density Disk, it will only format to 320K--and that can only be read normally by a Myarc Controller on a regular TI (or a TI DSDD Controller, if you have one of the original TI ones that works). A Geneve should read them with any of the DSDD controllers though, as its Master DSR recognizes the 320K format. The hard part on the GROMs will be determining the GROM Bases to read for the different sections of GROM when you're trying to read them out. I think it shows up somewhere in the 99/8 documentation, though. I put all of that that I've been able to find over the years up onto WHT, so the information is available. The p-System GROMs are like the p-Code card for the TI. They create the environment (UCSD V IV.13 IIRC). The Editor, Assembler, Compilers, or Linker are all loaded from disk. I have the disks for the 99/8 p-System. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I am pretty sure that Editor/Assembler works with the 99/8, and that the standard floppy system also works. The issue is just with Extended Basic II. So imagine I sent you a DSK disk image or a TIFILES file - can you save that to a disk that you can read with a TI? I wrote a tool for Linux some time ago which allows you to read and write TI-formatted floppy disks; for Windows there should be some other tool around. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 The hard part on the GROMs will be determining the GROM Bases to read for the different sections of GROM when you're trying to read them out. I think it shows up somewhere in the 99/8 documentation, though. I put all of that that I've been able to find over the years up onto WHT, so the information is available. This might be not that hard; I determined and adjusted the GROM bases for all parts in the MESS 99/8 emulation some time ago (partly from the behavior of the Monitor OS). Two things I would be particularly interested in: - a working Pascal in the 99/8 - the speech contents Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Disk controllers in the PEB work fine if you happen to have an Armadillo Interface card suitable for use with the type of motherboard on your 99/8. As Ciro noted, he has a HexBus floppy drive--and that option will also work. Note that if it is used with a Double Density Disk, it will only format to 320K--and ........ Ok, i haven't an Armadillo Interface, so i can image that i will not use the PEB on TI99/8... so i asking myself if i could use the nanoPEB or CF/7 too, but i do not think... no PEB no nanoPEB... I am pretty sure that Editor/Assembler works with the 99/8, and that the standard floppy system also works. The issue is just with Extended Basic II. So imagine I sent you a DSK disk image or a TIFILES file - can you save that to a disk that you can read with a TI? I wrote a tool for Linux some time ago which allows you to read and write TI-formatted floppy disks; for Windows there should be some other tool around. well, i will try the E/A on ti99/8 but if i can't use PEB or nanoPEB i must pray that my HexBus Drive will Work correctly (i never used it at now ) ... .DSK i can convert on real disk with HxC SD Card... no problem i think... about a: -working Pascal... well ... in the auction is specified about a "no Pascal" but on the TI99/8 there is the Pascal... so i think this machine could not have a working Pascal... i must try all when i will got it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kl99 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 If it is not straight forward, I suggest a live video stream where the pros give ciro advices which steps to do and directly see how the system reaction. That would be one awesome historical stream. The Chicago TI User Group uses the free service ustream.tv for their broadcastings. Or we use skype - I think you can record the video with some addon there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+acadiel Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I have a Hexbus prototype working floppy controller as well.... It will probably work fine too. I could only get it to format in TI DSDD, and couldn't figure out how to use other formats on the CC-40/CC-40+. (I'm about to list my whole CC-40/Hexbus lot on some boards.... The wife is bugging me to get rid of stuff.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Vorticon Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) I have a Hexbus prototype working floppy controller as well.... It will probably work fine too. I could only get it to format in TI DSDD, and couldn't figure out how to use other formats on the CC-40/CC-40+. (I'm about to list my whole CC-40/Hexbus lot on some boards.... The wife is bugging me to get rid of stuff.) I would love tho expand my CC40 system. Please keep in mind. I would love to expand my CC40 system. Edited February 14, 2013 by Vorticon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 And there was another machine in the $3000+ range the other day but I don't remember what it was. Wow!! The C65 auction ended at $7,625.00. Now that is something!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Wow!! The C65 auction ended at $7,625.00. Now that is something!! Yup, and it didn't even have all the custom chips! FWIW, that wasn't the other $3000+ machine I was thinking of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schuwalker Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Yup, and it didn't even have all the custom chips! FWIW, that wasn't the other $3000+ machine I was thinking of. James, I *think* you were thinking of the one where it was the computer clone used on Wargames. And a late congrats to TI99userclub! I'm guilty of raising the price on that one a little bit but bowed out pretty early in the bidding..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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