Is the Ultima Apple IIGS remake considered abandonware?

[+poobah]

Sure there is. Unless the copyright holder takes action to stop you, copying is allowed.

No,No, NO, 1000 times No.

In the United States, you must have *explicit* permission to duplicate a copyrighted work, full stop, end of sentance, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

 

I'm not even sure what it means to say something is "not allowed" if no one cares enough to do anything about it. Could the copyright holder stop you? Sure. But if he chooses not to, there's nothing else stopping you. Tieing your hands over a copyright the owner doesn't even care about is ridiculous.

You don't know that they don't care.

So it's OK to break the law if no one knows?

/facepalm

[The Usotsuki]

It's not allowed. However, in many cases, the rights holder doesn't know or care - and I don't care either.

[jhd]

It is entirely a question of risk management. The copyright holder may chose to enforce his/her/its rights, but very often they will not. Suing an individual is not cost-effective as they will not have sufficient assets to support an adverse judgement. Unless the copyright holder is a major publisher (e.g. Microsoft, Disney, Nintendo, etc.) who want to make an example of someone, the risk level is generally very low. When we are talking about long-defunct 1980s corporations, the risk-level approaches zero.

 

There is a famous (Canadian) copyright case where an academic sued a publisher for re-using much of his PhD thesis without permission. The publisher was a small firm, and so they were ordered to cease sale of the book (it was far from a best-seller) and turn over the remaining unsold copies to the plaintiff. He eventually had to pay to have the unwanted books disposed of. Yes, this was one of the (very few) successful copyright lawsuits in Canada, but it was also financially a losing proposition for the plaintiff. Remember that he had to pay legal fees as well as the cost of disposal and whatever his time is worth.

 

The text of the decision is not available online (for free). The formal citation is:

Breen v. Hancock House Publishers Ltd. (Federal Court of Canada — Trial Division, 1985) 6 C.I.P.R. 129, 6 C.P.R. (3d) 433

[Hatta]

What does it mean for something to not be allowed if no one cares enough to stop you? If you were the last person on earth, would you still stop at stop signs?

 

In the United States, you must have *explicit* permission to duplicate a copyrighted work

 

This is not true. I have duplicated many copyrighted works without explicit permission. What you really mean is "you must have explicit permission...or there will be consequences" But since we're talking about situations where there are no consequences, that's irrelevant.

 

So it's OK to break the law if no one knows?

 

Yes, until 2003 oral and anal sex was illegal in many states, but the law was not enforced. Copyrights that are not enforced hold the same moral status. Technically on the books, but no sane person respects them.

[Bloodcat]

I actually brought the video to the attention of Burger Becky and she made some reference to getting it from her but nothing else. Nor any follow up I could see.

I wonder if Tanru should reply to her on the video comments and have her stop in here and possibly answer some questions on it?

 

Tanru showed more footage of the game than I knew EXISTED in his video. Now I am totally jellin. (And not just for his amazing Craigslist Mac find.)

[magnusfalkirk]

I recently did a quick review of the game (mainly because I couldn't find any other videos of the IIGS version). The game is kind of hard to get these days because Joe Kohn, the last person to own the rights to the game, passed away back in 2009, so it has not been available for purchase since. Does anyone know if it is considered abandonware (and therefore free) at this point? I'd love to see it available for the hardcore Ultima fans that may have never played it.

 

Oh, and here's my review if you're curious about this version, which has some really nice music.

http://youtu.be/6utp4T7XW6E

 

Nice review! One comment though, being a fan of RPG's, it's the Experience Points, not Hit Points, that raise your level in the game as you gain more of them.

[JamesD]

So it's OK to break the law if no one knows?

Yes, until 2003 oral and anal sex was illegal in many states, but the law was not enforced. Copyrights that are not enforced hold the same moral status. Technically on the books, but no sane person respects them.

By your logic it's ok for someone to kill you as long as nobody finds out you were murdered.

[Hatta]

Nonsense. A murder obviously has a victim who objects. If for some reason the victim didn't object, say he was suffering from a terminal disease and wanted out, then yes it would be completely OK. Ethically, it's not the law that matters. It's the wishes of the party who the law is intended to protect that matters. The law is just an expedient.

 

If the only person who is legally empowerd to shackle you chooses not to, why would you do it to yourself? What sense does that make?

[+poobah]

By your logic it's ok for someone to kill you as long as nobody finds out you were murdered.

You're just wasting your virtual breath. Some people will rationalize forever.

[Hatta]

What exactly is rational about adhering to a law that's intended to protect a party that doesn't care whether it's protected? That's perverse.

[Tempest]

What exactly is rational about adhering to a law that's intended to protect a party that doesn't care whether it's protected?

Umm, because it's the law?

[TwiliteZoner]

It's too bad that more publishers don't take the Cinemaware approach and make the games available knowing that realistically this is great PR since they really aren't losing any money in the process.

[JamesD]

Nonsense. A murder obviously has a victim who objects. If for some reason the victim didn't object, say he was suffering from a terminal disease and wanted out, then yes it would be completely OK. Ethically, it's not the law that matters. It's the wishes of the party who the law is intended to protect that matters. The law is just an expedient.

 

If the only person who is legally empowerd to shackle you chooses not to, why would you do it to yourself? What sense does that make?

Exactly how does the victim of a murder object?

 

Notice how the law never matters when Hatta doesn't want it to? It's ok as long as Hatta can come up with a justification.

 

Let me give you a hint Hatta, just because you can come up with a justification for breaking the law doesn't mean you aren't breaking the law.

"But your honor, I have a justification for breaking the law!"

"Well then, case dismissed" ---- said no judge ever!

 

I agree that copyright law needs a rewrite and companies should release old titles like this even if it isn't changed.

But until the time that either one happens, it is against the law no matter how much you try to rationalize it.

[Hatta]

 

Umm, because it's the law?

 

Yeah, that's not a circular argument or anything. Obey the law, because the law is the law and that's the law. Right? No. The law is a tool designed for a purpose, when it doesn't fit that purpose the law is irrelevant. In such cases the law *should* be changed, but since we can't do that the right thing to do is ignore it. Particularly when no one could possibly be harmed by disobedience, as in the case of abandonware, sodomy laws, etc.

[Hatta]

"But your honor, I have a justification for breaking the law!"

"Well then, case dismissed" ---- said no judge ever!

 

We're talking about a case where you could never possibly see the inside of a courtroom. If you see a judge, it wasn't really abandoned was it? In those cases where a copyright is well and truly abandoned, what possible argument could there be to respect that copyright? If there's no one to object, what's objectionable about it?

 

I agree, it is still against the law. What I am arguing is that it being against the law has no practical consequences. That's essentially the definition of irrelevant.

[Tempest]

In such cases the law *should* be changed, but since we can't do that the right thing to do is ignore it.

So if you don't agree with the law you should ignore it? Imagine if everyone acted that way, the world would be in chaos.

 

If you just want to pirate the game, then pirate it already. The police aren't going to come kicking down your door over a port of a 30 year old game. But if you're looking for moral justification for doing it, you're not going to find it here.

[JamesD]

Ya know what I find most amusing about this?

EA owns the rights to the Ultima series and EA is know for rabid enforcement of copyrights.

[TwiliteZoner]

Ya know what I find most amusing about this?

EA owns the rights to the Ultima series and EA is know for rabid enforcement of copyrights.

 

I think EA just made a deal with Disney to start publishing LucasArts games.

[akator]

I think EA just made a deal with Disney to start publishing LucasArts games.

 

Really? Ya' think so?

[+Gemintronic]

Yep. Pretty soon you'll come home to your locked house and find Mickey looting all yer regents.

[TwiliteZoner]

Really? Ya' think so?

 

Here is just 1 link related to the story. There are plenty of others out there.

 

http://www.craveonline.com/gaming/articles/495677-ea-wins-publishing-rights-to-star-wars-games

[+Gemintronic]

I can't wait for Lord Madden Presents Ultima-ate Mickey Wars Racing!

[akator]

Here is just 1 link related to the story. There are plenty of others out there.

 

http://www.craveonli...star-wars-games

 

You win an internet.

[jamesk]

So.. is there a place to get this game?

Do enough people have it so it won't get lost forever?

 

Another forum recently talking about the port:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/943656/new-ultima-1-board-game

[Tempest]

So.. is there a place to get this game?

Not that I know of. Ebay? I might sell my copy, but it would cost a pretty penny (a VERY pretty penny).

 

Do enough people have it so it won't get lost forever?

Many people have it (including myself), it won't be lost forever.