Old Atari SF354 --> HxC Floppy Emulator

[Xebec]

Hi Folks!

 

I need some help/advice..

 

I have an older SF354 that is in bad shape. No real desire to fix it since I just picked up a Mega STE and a 1040 ST each with nicely working internal floppies.. (I've always wanted the Mega STE and really enjoying having it now ).

 

I took apart my SF354 after receiving the HxC (SD Card version) and realized it's the really old type with the 14 pin connector..

 

I did a ton of searching on the web and was hoping to figure out how to wire up that 14 pin mechanism to the 34 pins on the HxC (if it's even possible). I have some IBM floppy cables I can use for hacking/testing purposes..

 

So questions are:

- does anyone have a wiring diagram?

- is there a solution I can just buy if I'm lazy to hook up the HxC straight to the atari via the standard DIN / external connections?

 

(I also have an UltraSatan which i'm enjoying, but was looking for some floppy emulation for my 2.5mb 520STm)

(Yes I eventually will look into the a/b floppy switches )

 

Thanks very much!

John H

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Inside external floppy SF354 you will find regular 34 pin floppy connector, what can connect to HxC .

Or if want wiring diagram, here is pic from Atari ST ProfiBuch :

[+poobah]

I'm pretty sure I posted the 14pin to 34 pin stuff on here some time ago... did you search?

 

EDIT:

 

OK. I couldn't find my post... Had to go into my dead tree archive....

my notes are somewhat incomplete (nothing for pin 7or 8 )

If I recall correctly, if you fly the ground, you only have to move a couple pins to put the chinon connector right on the even pins of the floppy drive.

 

14 pin Chinon connector <-> PC 34 pin floppy

 

14 <-> 30 read data

9 <-> 32 side 0 select

1 <-> 8 index

6 <-> 14 drive 0 select

10 <-> 10 motor on

2 <-> 18 direction in

3 <-> 20 step

5 <-> 24 write gate

12 <-> 26 track 0

13 <-> 28 write protect

4 <-> 22 write data

11 <-> any odd pin (ground)

[Xebec]

Thanks Paranoid - unfortunately this is a very old mechanism with the 14 pin setup instead of a normal 34 pin floppy connector.

 

Poobah - yes, i searched, searched and searched.. google, atari-forums atariage .. found a few posts referring to it but the pics and links from those posts with the info needed no longer worked..

 

tried a bunch of 'poobah floppy' 'poobah sf354' poobah sf351 searches etc just now... no luck

[+wood_jl]

If you're using an old 520ST with NO INTERNAL FLOPPY, then using SF354 board like this......

 

 

.....works well. What's missing is extension cables, in that pic, which I got later.

 

What you need are power cable extensions, and data cable extensions - to make it either outside the case, or (if you want to get fancy) mount it in the case, somehow - sort of like the skilled fellas here have done with SIO2SD for the 8-bit Atari computers.

 

There's another thread around here - where I have detailed doing this: Scoring a floppy power cable extension, and the connector required to create your own data cable extension. I just looked, and couldn't find it. There's sources and prices for everything, in that thread.

 

If you're using anything OTHER THAN the old 520ST - that is, if you're using a 1040ST or beyond - then the floppy drive is obviously internal, and there's no reason to fool with the SF354 - UNLESS (!!!):

 

One of the neat tricks I've heard of is to install a toggle switch that will swap the internal (1040ST and beyond) floppy drive A / B designations - so you can flip the switch and have the internal drive be "B" and the external be "A." In such a case, you can leave the internal drive in place, and have the HxC in SF354 case.

 

But honestly, I've found the easiest solution is to get the CASED HxC device, and then use the aforementioned power and data cable extensions, and ditch the internal floppy, entirely.....

 

 

That's an Amiga 500, as I can't find the pic of the ST with the same setup, but that's EXACTLY what I use with the 1040ST and beyond.

 

But SF354 can perfectly be used (if one chooses) to host HxC floppy emulator. You just have to use the internal SF354 board to provide power and convert the connector.

[Xebec]

Thanks Poobah - that's a great start and i'll see what i can do to get the rest of the chinon wiring.. I appreciate that

 

Quadrunner - that is what i was hoping to do but when i opened up i wasn't lucky enough to have a SF354 board with standard 34 pin setups.. i do want to do the A/B swap and keep the 'real' floppy inside my 1040 and mega ste, just need to get this floppy emulator working externally first, which will require some kind of 14 pin to 34 pin adapter i'll have to hack together...I appreciate you taking the time to write this up.. I may just tear open my external SF314 next and see if that has what i need..

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Thanks Paranoid - unfortunately this is a very old mechanism with the 14 pin setup instead of a normal 34 pin floppy connector.

...

 

Can we see picture of that 14 pin mechanism ? 'cause I never heard and seen (about) such thing ...

I though that suplied pic answers all questions, so how to solve external connection and A/B swap too. Obviously just need to switch lines Drive Select A and Drive Select B (Atari part) with double alternate switch.

[Xebec]

Sure - attaching pics now. Hopefully this works :

 

 

 

[+poobah]

well that explains the missing pin 7and 8 in my notes =P

 

haven't worked on one of those evil Chinons in several years

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Interesting. And drive seems pretty fat. Maybe is with belt drive

[Xebec]

OK - This works great now - thanks everyone for the help and Poobah for the wiring!.. I was able to use my HxC with the "evil chinon" setup SF354 on my (2.5MB) 520STm.. (although neither the chinon, nor SF314 with 34 pin want to work right on my Mega STE as an external/secondary floppy.. Tried all kinds of jumper/ID settings.. will have to search the web some more when i'm in the mood ).

 

Thanks again!

John H

[+poobah]

for the mste, try connecting chinon pin 6 to pin 12 on the floppy connector

[+wood_jl]

Wow, never seen a drive connector like that!

 

What does the frront of the drive look like? Just hoping to be able to identify these drives in the wild (if possible) on sight.

 

 

#1 Original

 

 

#2 Slanty

 

 

#3 Final (I have only seen this on SF314 not SF354 but don't know)

 

 

Is the power supply for your drive (non-standard connection) 5V only? I don't think the HxC requires the 12V but the standard floppy power had both 5V and 12V and I was hoping that checking the power supply might be one way to identify the internal drive. I think the 5V-only ST drive power connector had a reverse-gender connector, to avoid plugging the old 5V/12V power supply into the newer 5V-only drive.

 

 

While it won't help you with the non-standard connector drive, here's the thread I was thinking of earlier, but couldn't seem to find:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/165297-where-to-source-st-floppy-cables-power-extension/

[+DarkLord]

Just curious ('cause I really don't know), but wasn't the big slanty button the original?

 

Thanks!

[Xebec]

Quadrunner -- the SF354 with the 14 pin / chinon connector is the slanty kind (#2). I agree with the other poster I think slanty is original.

 

And the 4 pin power connector for the SF354 does have both 5V and 12V (per circuit board), and the connector is reversed/not working right with the HxC -- for now i'm using a PC power supply for the HxC and also the ultrasatan I have here.. (Thanks Lotharek for making these toys )

 

Thanks for the link -- I'm hoping to keep this external (once i figure out wiring, I'm going to try to design a case to print via my reprap 3D printer), but i may eventually put one of these inside the Mega STE .

 

On a geek note, I kept thinking these 3D Printers for home use could have been invented back in the late 80s and used on computers like the Mega STE.. You'd pre-calculate the 3D --> "G CODE" (plotter code) before printing.. and then when printing time comes, you don't really need much horsepower to control the printer.. (The arduino brains are an 8bit microcontroller, receiving input at 57600 bps, 115200 bps, or 250000bps).

 

Sorry back to reality.

 

Poobah --

 

Tried pin 12 instead of 14 for chinon pin 6 (good idea - drive select change) - no go.. tried both a and b on ID0 and also on ID3 (which is indicated for swapped floppy cables).

 

Behavior is a bit different - it doesn't get confused on internal vs external. in all cases it assumes 'B' is a second disk in the internal..(i.e. insert disk b in drive a). also tried each setting with the ultrasatan disconnected. Maybe there is just something weird with this SF351 controller.. and my SF311 controller is 34 pin but it's soldered on = ugh..

 

Anything else special about a Mega STE , tos 2.06 uk (yes in US) that might not like the HxC as an external drive?

 

Thanks everyone

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Instead using pin # to pin # scheme, better is to base it on line functions . You should start at Atari floppy connector, for what have pin layout. Then accociate functions (lines) with same ones on standard 34 floppy connector. Keeping in mind that Atari will activate motor on on both drives at once always.

 

Mega STE works well with HxC. And even if I did not try it via external connector, there is no reason why it work not. You just need proper connection and switch .

Floppies must be set as drive A - unlike on PC .

Edited May 8, 2013 by ParanoidLittleMan

[Xebec]

Will do Paranoid -- and thanks for the tip on both floppies being accessed...

 

Can you verify for me that your HxC is simply connected via the regular floppy connector, and that you have ID0 set to 'A', and nothing else jumpered?

 

I appreciate it

[ParanoidLittleMan]

I have USB HxC . Assembled by Lotharek 2010 . No jumpers on it. It is simply connected to floppy cable, where regular floppy connector is.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

I tried combination internal floppy as A and HXC as B - works fine. But I used internal regular floppy cable with 3 connectors, and only swapped lines 10 and 12 for drive B (HxC) .

Don't have some SF314/354 and Atari floppy cable. Anyway, principle is same.

[+wood_jl]

Just curious ('cause I really don't know), but wasn't the big slanty button the original?

 

Thanks!

 

I bought the launch 520ST and SF354 at the earliest release, and it was the square button. I soon-after upgraded to SF314, and it was also the same.

 

Later (late 1986) I sold the 520ST and bought a 1040ST and IT had the slanty button. So, I'm reasonably-sure the square button is the first. The only reason I can't say I'm "positive" is that (of course) there may be regional or "batch" issues that I couldn't know about.

 

I strongly suspect that the last (#3) SF314 pictured (never seen one in person) is the 1/3-height drive. The later STs with internal drives all appeared to use the same mech, after the large/slanty bar one.

[rcamp48]

Wow, never seen a drive connector like that!

 

What does the frront of the drive look like? Just hoping to be able to identify these drives in the wild (if possible) on sight.

 

 

#1 Original

01 Original.jpg

 

 

#2 Slanty

02 Slanty.jpg

 

 

#3 Final (I have only seen this on SF314 not SF354 but don't know)

03 Last.jpg

 

 

Is the power supply for your drive (non-standard connection) 5V only? I don't think the HxC requires the 12V but the standard floppy power had both 5V and 12V and I was hoping that checking the power supply might be one way to identify the internal drive. I think the 5V-only ST drive power connector had a reverse-gender connector, to avoid plugging the old 5V/12V power supply into the newer 5V-only drive.

 

 

While it won't help you with the non-standard connector drive, here's the thread I was thinking of earlier, but couldn't seem to find:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/165297-where-to-source-st-floppy-cables-power-extension/

 

I have the drive #1 listed above with the square button, a modern drive does not seem to work with it , what I received (for free, can't argue with the price) , is the drive , power supply and no cable had to order two of them as I wanted to make a blitz cable to work with it. I have two single sided drives with broken belts useless to me , fits the SF354 drive, does anyone want them. I would like to know how to hook up a modern drive to this unit , modified or not , cant get either to work, searched the internet with conflicting results , more confused than ever , as there is different ways listed. Oh I do have extender cables for the drives , lucky enough to get a long floppy cable with both male and female connectors on the end. Thanks in advance Russ

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Is the power supply for your drive (non-standard connection) 5V only? I don't think the HxC requires the 12V but the standard floppy power had both 5V and 12V and I was hoping that checking the power supply might be one way to identify the internal drive. I think the 5V-only ST drive power connector had a reverse-gender connector, to avoid plugging the old 5V/12V power supply into the newer 5V-only drive.

 

 

I had 5V only Epson floppy drive back in 1987, and it had regular power connector. And why should not ? 12V line is simply not connected anywhere. Really no need for some reversing of genders Sorry for digging out this old post, but really some of bigger nonsense ...

Edited January 30, 2019 by ParanoidLittleMan

[hueyjones70]

I'm pretty sure I posted the 14pin to 34 pin stuff on here some time ago... did you search?EDIT:OK. I couldn't find my post... Had to go into my dead tree archive....my notes are somewhat incomplete (nothing for pin 7or 8 )If I recall correctly, if you fly the ground, you only have to move a couple pins to put the chinon connector right on the even pins of the floppy drive.14 pin Chinon connector PC 34 pin floppy14 30 read data9 32 side 0 select1 8 index6 14 drive 0 select10 10 motor on2 18 direction in3 20 step5 24 write gate12 26 track 013 28 write protect4 22 write data11 any odd pin (ground)

I am hoping to use an old style SF354 with one of Dropchecks new boards. I have a 34 pin connector from an older version 551 that had individual wires instead of a flat cable. Has anyone verified or used this pinout?

[gespy]

On 4/15/2019 at 3:53 AM, hueyjones70 said:

I am hoping to use an old style SF354 with one of Dropchecks new boards. I have a 34 pin connector from an older version 551 that had individual wires instead of a flat cable. Has anyone verified or used this pinout?

I tried this pinout, but made some minor changes to get it working. I've captured the entire process in the video below. Here you can also see the pinout I came up with.

 

 

[JamesWD]

Made me paranoid reading this as i have a 'slanty' SF354 that i was going to put a Goex in so I thought i'd see what i have inside as i expected a 34 pin plug and play for the Goex, argh i have the 14 pin connector