Atari Jaguar in FPGA

[JagChris]

On 2/21/2022 at 10:19 AM, youxia said:

For the record, the @Torlus's core has been actually ported to MiSter long time ago. You need two SDRAM sticks to run it, but it got to the stage where it's somewhat usable - games load, and are playable, but most crashes sooner or later. It hasn't been worked on for a long time, but now another dev, @Kitrinx is apparently looking at it too.

 

So maybe we'll get two Jags eventually (thing with Jotego is that he releases betas of his cores for Patreon supporters first, so it might take longer).

According to this everything is done except the bugs. The netlists doesn't have the bugs?

Edited February 23, 2022 by JagChris

[tripled79]

Uh... What is FPGA?

[JagChris]

1 hour ago, tripled79 said:

Uh... What is FPGA?

 

[JagChris]

I think it's interesting how when you shut it off it holds the hardware description like a save game state on a cartridge. Then uses that to recreate the hardware again when you turn it back on. 

[ArneCRosenfeldt]

23 hours ago, JagChris said:

Doesn't matter Arnie you can't have a Mister FPGA anyway. Your wife will just throw it out as soon as you go to take a nap.

but then it would only be a MISTer with plenty of supply

[JagChris]

29 minutes ago, ArneCRosenfeldt said:

but then it would only be a MISTer with plenty of supply

They're more expensive than Jaguar prices, but hell let her chuck away

[youxia]

4 hours ago, JagChris said:

According to this everything is done except the bugs.

I don't think it's really that simple, otherwise the existing core would be much more popular . A lot has been implemented, but some crucial things are still missing so the games crash. It's hard to find out exactly because some people tend to be biased towards the glass being half-full and say that games "are working fine", which in retro-gaming speak can mean anything really, while others say the opposite.

 

And I'm not going to rush out and buy an extra SDRAM stick just to find out...I'd rather wait & see. But at least something is happening again, so that's good news.

 

 

[JagChris]

20 hours ago, youxia said:

And I'm not going to rush out and buy an extra SDRAM stick just to find out...I'd rather wait & see. But at least something is happening again, so that's good news.

 

Well at least this will give you some more time to get another memory stick. A single stick might work for emulation of lesser systems like the Saturn or PSX. But you try to run a powerful piece of kit such as the Jaguar on the MISTer like that and that little box of hardware you got over there bout liable to mess it's drawers.

[+Gemintronic]

Another factor are the casul n00b MiSTer users who bought pre made kits.  Most have one stick of RAM and brittle 3D printed cases.  Between the hassle of finding another RAM module and breaking things doing the upgrade themselves the benefits go way down.

 

I really hope the MiSTer core developers have a working community to share techniques that make single stick work.

 

[melrocks]

Building a MiSTer was trivial. The only issue was making sure a case matches the board layout, and stand-offs matched the the case height internally. Im very excited for this core!

[JagChris]

On 2/21/2022 at 2:12 PM, Gemintronic said:

I'm especially excited as there's not enough room for the Jag in my office.  Got a Jag Studio "Hello World" to compile and run on a core found on YouTube.  But, most games and other code examples just don't run.

 

Hope it doesn't use two sticks as I bought a generic pre built setup with just one.  Don't feel like potentially breaking the thing to try fitting an extra stick in there somehow.

Is this the generic pre-configuration? Pricey.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002572625825.html?aff_platform=true&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&isdl=y&src=bing&albch=shopping&acnt=42005546&isdl=y&albcp=373871275&albag=1304021153213320&slnk=&trgt=pla-4585100933966845&plac=&crea=81501396744732&netw=s&device=t&mtctp=e&utm_source=Bing&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=PA_Bing_customlabel1_US_PC&utm_content=customlable1%3D5&utm_term=mister fpga&msclkid=f6bc7e3bab7c195a505c1c22bd6152de

 

Where can we get the even more pricey non generic dual ram setup?

[+Gemintronic]

@JagChris

 

Yeah.. that's the going price.  sigh.

 

Real men are supposed to piece it together from whoever actually has stock of a DE-Nano.  I heard the makers sell it directly as well.  Finding the second stick of RAM usually involves hitting up the community for trusted sellers and then hoping they have stock. 

 

MiSTer is objectively the best because of the amount of core developers and sources for parts.. but, it's still a challenge.

 

I can say it was worth it in the end with the way development and testing works.  Don't have to hook up every classic system in my office.  Less shuffling from card reader to flash cart to actual system in living-room.

[Austin]

The MiSTer is not cheap by any means, but the chip shortage isn't doing it any favors at the moment. It was previously common to get a fully decked out setup for roughly $375, but now you're looking at $100 to $200 more than that. Sucks but I'd say it's still worth it. The amount of updates its received has been staggering.

[youxia]

Here's my obligatory You Don't Need The Full Stack post. Really. MiSter "building" is one of the most needlessly overhyped things in retro gaming

 

As such, you can put it together for ~300-350 USD (DE10+SDRAM), depending on where you can get a MiSTer (eg Terasic has them very often but then shipping and customs might hike the price of the board itself to 300 from the initial 210 USD, depending on where you are in the world).

 

Also, buying a second stick right now is not really recommended. It might well be it won't be really needed bar some minuscule benefits for  PSX  and/or Saturn core,  maybe not even needed for Jag at all.

[+Gemintronic]

4 minutes ago, youxia said:

Here's my obligatory You Don't Need The Full Stack post. Really. MiSter "building" is one of the most needlessly overhyped things in retro gaming

 

As such, you can put it together for ~300-350 USD (DE10+SDRAM), depending on where you can get a MiSTer (eg Terasic has them very often but then shipping and customs might hike the price of the board itself to 300 from the initial 210 USD, depending on where you are in the world).

 

Also, buying a second stick right now is not really recommended. It might well be it won't be really needed bar some minuscule benefits for  PSX  and/or Saturn core,  maybe not even needed for Jag at all.

 

You may be right.  But, enough cores that I use need this module or that.  A second tf card slot here.  A USB type connection for SNAC adapters there.  The first RAM stick for ao486.

 

Second RAM stick is where I stop.

 

[youxia]

11 minutes ago, Gemintronic said:

 

You may be right.  But, enough cores that I use need this module or that.  A second tf card slot here.  A USB type connection for SNAC adapters there.  The first RAM stick for ao486.

 

Second RAM stick is where I stop.

 

I've been using it for nearly 2 years, for all the cores (my favourite are obscure microcomputers), and have neither I/O nor USB boards. Not a single core needs them (I'm pretty sure the second SD slot is not in use anymore on any). Sure, there are some benefits from I/O, like the SNAC (for original controllers), ADC (for tape loading), or LEDs, but these are wants. I've never missed that functionality myself.

 

Yeah, you do need a SDRAM, but even when adding a few cheap bits & pieces like OTG USB it can be all easily squeezed  in that 300-350 USD range (even less if you buy SDRAM from Ali and not from an official seller)

[+Gemintronic]

I guess the smart move is to either wait until Kitrinx gives out the expected minimum specs or ask respectfully.  As others have pointed out Jotego has a lot going on.

[+remowilliams]

5 hours ago, Austin said:

The MiSTer is not cheap by any means, but the chip shortage isn't doing it any favors at the moment. It was previously common to get a fully decked out setup for roughly $375, but now you're looking at $100 to $200 more than that. Sucks but I'd say it's still worth it. The amount of updates its received has been staggering.

 

Yes the price increase due to global shortages (like many other things) has raised the price quite a bit.  Both of my DE-10s were ~$130. 

 

For the retro enthusiast the MiSTer still presents an unbeatable value proposition though.

 

4 hours ago, youxia said:

Here's my obligatory You Don't Need The Full Stack post. Really.

 

It's something that bears repeating.  I've had a MiSTer for like ever now and I've never had a USB board, or BlisSTer, etc.   

 

DE-10 Nano, OTG hub and a single SDRAM are all you need for a perfectly functional MiSTer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JagChris]

8 hours ago, youxia said:

 It might well be it won't be really needed bar some minuscule benefits for  PSX  and/or Saturn core,  maybe not even needed for Jag at all.

 

This is probably wishful thinking. I think it's probably best to gear up now that there is time for what is probably the inevitable dual ram standard. 

[youxia]

"Future proofing" has always been a dubious concept in the PC world, and it's the same here. 2 years ago I bought a 64MB SDRAM stick despite hearing the same stuff about future proofing with 128MB "for the upcoming cores" and so far have been able to play 99,9% of stuff (including on the new PSX core), bar maybe one or two Capcom arcade games. Meanwhile, some folks with 128MB sticks had to buy new ones, because of a timings snafu. So, I'll stick to that (pun intended) setup for now...can always upgrade if Saturn really needs it (for Jag, hmmm...would have to have a little think).

 

But, hey, you go ahead if you want to "gear up for the inevitable" - it's your money after all ;)

[+5-11under]

Hopefully the maximum that would be required is (another) ~$20 32 MB RAM card.

 

/another "you don't need to spend extra money" MiSTer fan.

 

[JagChris]

On 2/25/2022 at 1:00 PM, Gemintronic said:

I guess the smart move is to either wait until Kitrinx gives out the expected minimum specs or ask respectfully.  As others have pointed out Jotego has a lot going on.

I also heard this guy(Jotega) likes to hold stuff behind a paywall when it is finished. 

 

We're probably better off backing this Rysha(Kitrinx) developer. Probably a better bet. 

Edited February 26, 2022 by JagChris

[+Gemintronic]

@JagChris

 

Yeah.  I mean, it's a tough one for me.  One way to think of it is: supporters should be thanked if at all possible.  So, if you intend to support Jotego this is a gift.  If not this is a reason to feel left out.

[+remowilliams]

Jotego's beta cores are behind a paywall.  His finished cores are released to the public.

[+CyranoJ]

2 hours ago, JagChris said:

I also heard this guy(Jotega) likes to hold stuff behind a paywall when it is finished. 

 

We're probably better off backing this Rysha(Kitrinx) developer. Probably a better bet. 

The MiSTer user community is insanely privilidged to have both these developers give their time and efforts for us.  As said above, all JTs cores get released after completion, its only betas are behind a paywall.

 

You say "we're probably better off" but from all your posts regarding MiSTer in this thread, I'm thinking you have no skin in the game, don't follow the MiSTer project closely, and don't really know what you are talking about.