Omega-TI Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 If categories are necessary is speed the deciding factor? Complexity? I'd suggest limiting the segregation to two categories: 1. Slowly Interpreted: BASIC/Extended BASIC 2. Quickly interpreted or compiled: Assembler(machine code)/Forth/GPL/C I like your suggestion. If there are no objections, I really think this is the way to go as it keeps the whole thing from getting overly complicated and out of hand. Also, it'll make for better quality prizes since only 4 will be awarded. So now we have to 2 categories: 1) GAMES and 2) UTILITIES And two sub categories for each: 1) Slowly Interpreted: BASIC/Extended BASIC and 2) Quickly interpreted or compiled: Assembler(machine code)/Forth/GPL/C The programs must be FINISHED and able to run on a REAL TI. Well that seems doable! If no one else has any objections, I see nothing wrong with multiple entries as it can only help the community to have more software. It'll be up to the programmer to decide if dividing time between multiple programs will hurt their chances of having a killer winner program or not. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2817419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Well, this board is REALLY acting stupid.... Wow! You're right!! This upgrade seems to have broken Google Chrome—I much prefer it over IE. ...lee Selecting "Clear browsing data ..." in Google Chrome with the defaults checked ("Clear browsing history", "Clear download history", "Delete cookies and other site and plug-in data" and "Empty the cache") seems to have restored sanity to Chrome. We'll see.. ...lee 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2817489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Selecting "Clear browsing data ..." in Google Chrome with the defaults checked ("Clear browsing history", "Clear download history", "Delete cookies and other site and plug-in data" and "Empty the cache") seems to have restored sanity to Chrome. We'll see.. ...lee To add to the mystery, I'm actually using Firefox. Hopefully "service has been restored to normal" . Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2817494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMole Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 What if I were to write an F18A-only game, would that be eligible for the competition? Having a separate F18A category would be a good way to stimulate some F18A game development and would definitely make the competition more attractive to me. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2817912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted August 26, 2013 Author Share Posted August 26, 2013 What if I were to write an F18A-only game, would that be eligible for the competition? Having a separate F18A category would be a good way to stimulate some F18A game development and would definitely make the competition more attractive to me. While I personally love concept of an F18A only game, you might not get as many votes, even if it was the best game made, because there are simply not enough users (voters) out there that have one. Yes, Classic 99 does emulate the F18A, but since this is for the TI, one of the requirements is that it has to also run a real TI. Now what would be cool and would get you an extra technical point is if you did what the author of Titanium did, he made the program auto detect which display was being used and the program switches accordingly. That was pretty damn slick if you ask me! I cannot wait to see what you come up wit! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2817920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMole Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Yes, Classic 99 does emulate the F18A, but since this is for the TI, one of the requirements is that it has to also run a real TI. Not even sure if that's one 100% correct. I know classic99 has some initial support for the F18A, but not for the hardware scrolling and enhanced color modes, which are the prime things to leverage for a game. So the only way to actually run F18A software is on the real thing, which would be following "the rules" we've established up to now. But you are probably right in that the F18A is not widespread enough yet to receive a lot of votes. I'm more than willing to take that risk and help build-out a library for the thing, I think it deserves it! 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2817928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted August 26, 2013 Author Share Posted August 26, 2013 I'm more than willing to take that risk and help build-out a library for the thing, I think it deserves it! That sounds great! I also agree with you, the F18A does deserve it! That little gadget brings the TI up to the current standard for just about any TV or monitor currently sold (at least every TV and monitor in this house has a VGA port). The sharp, crisp and enhanced graphics are definitely a plus. I would not be the least bit surprised that if Matthew continues to make these things, there will be enough of them out there in 10 years than many of us will have TI's full of F18A only software. Honestly, I cannot wait to get my hands on one myself. It's too bad there is no way (at least that I know of) to do 80 column mode in Extended Basic. (Anyone out there want to change that?) There is a good chance I'll be starting an X10 project in the next couple of months for the TI and an 80 column input & display interface would have been sweet. I remember in my PC days I used to draw out my ANSI screens and link them with my GW-BASIC programs, it made for a nicer presentation, unfortunately I have no clue how that could be done on the TI. Can you imagine a fancy bitmapped background and then using display and accept at calls to place the actual inputs in specified locations on the image. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2817955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Now what would be cool and would get you an extra technical point is if you did what the author of Titanium did, he made the program auto detect which display was being used and the program switches accordingly. That was pretty damn slick if you ask me! I think I should clarify that Titanium is not using any of the new capabilities of the F18A (scroll registers, multi-color sprites, co-processor, etc.). I'm only using it to bypass the sprite duplication problem that exists in half-bitmap mode in the 9918A. If the F18A is detected I know this problem is not present and I can use a 'standard' half-bitmap mode with one pattern table and one color table. If the F18A is not detected I have to use 3 pattern tables (we could call this 2/3 bitmap mode), which doubles the number of bytes that has to be sent to the VDP. Since half-bitmap mode is such a useful mode IMH), this is perhaps the easiest way to take advantage of the F18A. I would love to use some of the other features in a backwards compatible manner, so the game would still run on the old hardware, but without emulation I don't really have the time to experiment. I'm thinking about utilizing the co-processor, since this is supported by Classic99 (however, I understand that it doesn't run in parallel with the normal CPU), but I haven't got a really good idea for something it could add to game without depending too much on it. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2817996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted August 26, 2013 Author Share Posted August 26, 2013 I haven't got a really good idea for something it could add to game without depending too much on it. Would a game similar to Commander Keen or a game like Dangerous Dave be too difficult for the F18A to handle? Those games had some major playability, and something along those lines would be great! Now there was also a game neat little game called Blake Stone, but I do believe that one might just be outside the envelope of possibility. Just a couple of ideas to kick around. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2817999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+retroclouds Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 (edited) Kevan, a lot of stuff can be pulled of even without the F18A. Check this game for example. It runs on the MSX1 (which has the same VDP as the TI-99/4A). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH6gtS_2iGM If you look at what RasmusM has pulled off with Titanium, we now that it's possible. It's more a lack of time and perhaps development tools that could be a show-stopper. Then again, the tools have evolved very well lately. Thinking about Magellan here. Edited August 26, 2013 by retroclouds Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2818021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 It just occurred to me that one of the most useful new features of the F18A is also one of the easiest to emulate, namely the lifting of the 4 sprites per line restriction. Without this restriction we could have much more colorful sprites, and on the old hardware it's easy to fall back to fewer color layers. All it would take for Tursi to emulate this would be a F18A toggle in the menu that would disable the emulation of the 4 sprites per line restriction and also enable the GPU support. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2818030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 F18A support in Classic99 is bare-bones and mostly wrong, yes. It emulates enough to activate 80-column mode and to run the GPU (which runs /instead/ of the main CPU instead of in parallel with it). It was enough to debug what I was working on, but true support will have to come later. As for the 4-sprites-on-a-line toggle, that's already in the menu. Video->Flicker (Not very well named in retrospect...) Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2818055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMole Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 It just occurred to me that one of the most useful new features of the F18A is also one of the easiest to emulate, namely the lifting of the 4 sprites per line restriction. Without this restriction we could have much more colorful sprites, and on the old hardware it's easy to fall back to fewer color layers. All it would take for Tursi to emulate this would be a F18A toggle in the menu that would disable the emulation of the 4 sprites per line restriction and also enable the GPU support. That is a really clever way of making use of F18A features in a way that allows for easy backwards compatibility. Especially since the F18A allows you to toggle the advanced color modes separately for patterns and sprites. Another relatively easy enhancement would be to provide two types of graphics for static screens/backdrops, one using ECM and another in pure TMS9918a mode. My personal interest lie more with the advanced scrolling possibilities (mostly horizontal, for platformers); the bitmap layer (for "boss" sprites) and the GPUs PIX support combined with something like a bresenham algorithm for line drawing (for out-run style racing games). It's not easy to build a game that uses any of these but still degrades gracefully to the 9918a, hence my question if F18a-only games would be allowed... RasmusM, you think it would be possible to use your software scrolling algorithm as a fallback, would you be willing to turn it into a generic scrolling library? I wouldn't mind trying to support the 9918a for one of my ideas (sidescrolling platformer), but don't want to invest time re-inventing your perfectly good wheel and would want to focus on the F18A stuff instead... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2818080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 As for the 4-sprites-on-a-line toggle, that's already in the menu. Video->Flicker (Not very well named in retrospect...) Arrgh, I've seen it there many times, but never knew what it was (RTFM). I still think it would be nice to have this linked to an F18A option that also switched the GPU support on/off. When I started to write Titanium I was gladly surprised to see that it detected the F18A by the method described here http://atariage.com/forums/topic/207586-f18a-programming-info-and-resources/#entry2676863 but it would have been helpful to be able to switch it off (or is there also a secret option for that? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2818106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Arrgh, I've seen it there many times, but never knew what it was (RTFM). I still think it would be nice to have this linked to an F18A option that also switched the GPU support on/off. When I started to write Titanium I was gladly surprised to see that it detected the F18A by the method described here http://atariage.com/forums/topic/207586-f18a-programming-info-and-resources/#entry2676863 but it would have been helpful to be able to switch it off (or is there also a secret option for that? No, there are no options for the F18A right now.. it's just a mishmash of various settings to achieve the goals I was working on at the time. Sorry for that! As for enabling 32-sprites-on-a-line when the F18A is active, I personally advocated and run myself the F18A with flicker /enabled/ by default, since an F18A aware application can write a register to override that and specify how many sprites it wants. I consider that a better compromise with compatibility since it will work on all F18A devices regardless of how the jumper is set. Classic99 will take that approach when I get there. I haven't decided whether to support the hardware jumpers although I am tempted not to, to discourage hardware variations in the field. (For the minimal impact I may have on that ). I've been talking about these reworks for a long time so I do feel bad discussing my plans, but.. time is still not conductive to getting it in there. But the /plans/ do exist. (In the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stored in a disused lavatory in a darkened basement with a sign saying 'beware of the leopard'.) Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2818114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 (edited) RasmusM, you think it would be possible to use your software scrolling algorithm as a fallback, would you be willing to turn it into a generic scrolling library? I wouldn't mind trying to support the 9918a for one of my ideas (sidescrolling platformer), but don't want to invest time re-inventing your perfectly good wheel and would want to focus on the F18A stuff instead... The problem is that it's a pretty big and advanced fallback. Your entire game would have to be designed with this in mind. It eats up a lot of RAM (CPU + VDP) for buffers, and your graphics (especially for horizontal scrolling) have to be designed with very limited color and tile transitions. The mode 1 algorithm I demonstrated here <a data-ipb="nomediaparse" data-cke-saved-href="http://atariage.com/forums/topic/210888-smooth-scrolling/page-3?do=findComment&comment=2788098%20is%20somewhat%20easier%20to%20deal%20with%20than%20the%20bitmap%20mode%20algorithm,%20but%20it%20still%20eats%20up%20half%20of%20the%20VDP%20RAM%20for%20pattern%20table%20buffers,%20and%20judging%20from%20what%20you%20write%20it%20doesn" href="http://atariage.com/forums/topic/210888-smooth-scrolling/page-3?do=findComment&comment=2788098%20is%20somewhat%20easier%20to%20deal%20with%20than%20the%20bitmap%20mode%20algorithm,%20but%20it%20still%20eats%20up%20half%20of%20the%20VDP%20RAM%20for%20pattern%20table%20buffers,%20and%20judging%20from%20what%20you%20write%20it%20doesn" t%20sound%20like%20you%20want%20mode%201%20graphics."="">http://atariage.com/forums/topic/210888-smooth-scrolling/page-3#entry2788098 is somewhat easier to deal with than the bitmap mode algorithm, but it still eats up half of the VDP RAM for pattern table buffers, and judging from what you write it doesn't sound like you want mode 1 graphics. I've thought about writing some (relatively) simple examples that can take the output directly from Magellan and turn it into a scrolling demo, but I have many other more interesting ideas to spend my limited time on at the moment. The latest version of Magellan can generate both a transition tile map and scrolled patterns for you, and most importantly it can check the number of tile transitions. It would have been impossible for me to write Titanium without a tool like that. Edit: A possible fallback from the F18A smooth scrolling could be to 8 pixel scrolling, which I guess you would get almost automatically on the old hardware since you need to update the name table every 8 pixels. Edited August 26, 2013 by RasmusM Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2818129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 More arrrgh. The bloody forum is removing everything I put after a link. This is why my last two posts look so strange. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2818133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 As for enabling 32-sprites-on-a-line when the F18A is active, I personally advocated and run myself the F18A with flicker /enabled/ by default, since an F18A aware application can write a register to override that and specify how many sprites it wants. Aah, I forgot you could do that. Regarding the jumper I would have preferred it to be very long so it could stick out of a hole at the back of the console :-) Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2818140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Aah, I forgot you could do that. Regarding the jumper I would have preferred it to be very long so it could stick out of a hole at the back of the console :-) Put a PC speaker wire plug on the jumper and run the wires out to a switch or would that not work? 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2818158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 (edited) More arrrgh. The bloody forum is removing everything I put after a link. This is why my last two posts look so strange. I am using Chrome and getting pretty sick and tired of having to clear cache for this site. Also a fix was to turn OFF the Advanced setting "Use a web service to help resolve navigation errors", though now I get music blasting me and pop up windows when I surf web. Edited August 26, 2013 by RXB Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2818159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnbvcxz Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 I use Firefox and have had no problems with this site. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2818182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMole Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Clearing the cache did the trick for me, but annoyingly the mobile version of the site does not show quotation markup anymore. Looks like everyone is just repeating the same statements over and over and it's very difficult to see where a quote ends and a comment starts. Chrome on Android... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2818389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucien2 Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Looks like everyone is just repeating the same statements over and over... LOL same here. Safari on iPod... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2818796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 I'm thinking with all the news stuff coming up and being developed, that this topic needs to be renamed to The BEST NEW PROGRAMS & HARDWARE OF 2014. That would give people time to finish what they have in the works and finalize their releases. It would also foster more competition as people would have a chance to actually make a submission. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/215586-best-new-game-of-2013/page/3/#findComment-2825052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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