batari BRIK mockup

[+Gemintronic]

Inspired by RePixel8 I tried to reproduce his efforts in bB.

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/216585-new-2600-game-brik/

 

This is just a mock up with no game logic. In fact, I don't even know how I'd implement bouncing off walls, the paddle or bricks.

 

If anyone wants to take this further or can supply advice for block breaking and ball travel please do!

 

This mock up features:

* bricks with vertical delineation

* White top and side borders (with top entrances for enemies)

* Virtual sprites for bonus items and enemy use

 

bbbrik10.bas

bbbrik10.bin

[+Random Terrain]

This is just a mock up with no game logic. In fact, I don't even know how I'd implement bouncing off walls, the paddle or bricks.

 

I was working on this for a while until I got sidetracked doing other things:

 

atariage.com/forums/topic/211497-chipoff-breakout-style-example-program/

 

Last time I was working on it, I was trying to figure out how to do different ball sizes and have it work perfectly.

 

I tried the game you mentioned, but it seemed like even the blocks flickered, making me want to kill myself immediately, so I didn't spend more than a few seconds playing it.

[+Gemintronic]

This is getting closer to an official game. I figured out how to properly destroy the specific brick that the ball is hitting against. This is trickier than it sounds as each brick is actually two playfield pixels.

 

The last bit of hurdle is implementing physics. If I figure out THAT then this will be my game for the Spooky Empire show Neotokeo2001 is going to. Stay tuned!

[Byte Knight]

Inspired by RePixel8 I tried to reproduce his efforts in bB.

 

 

I assumed that his game was done in bB, given the score position and the scan lines.

[iesposta]

You're not lining up the player / missile the same way. See pictures.

I love flicker!

If you make this "Paddle" I'd buy it.

 

[+Gemintronic]

Yeah, iesposta did a wonderful job detailing just how different a custom kernel is from bB.

 

First off, bB *must* use a first row of playfield pixels with 8 as its width. I got around this by scrolling the screen up a bit to hide the excess.

 

RePixel8 flickers a missile to simulate the side walls. I take advantage of bataris lack of clipping to let one missile cover both sides without flicker.

 

Without using extra RAM or DPC+ you are stuck with 11 rows for the playfield. I had to sacrifice a row of blocks to fit in the paddle, 2 x blank spaces and the top wall.

 

Hopefully this actually works on a real TV. I haven't even checked for it going over cycle

[+Random Terrain]

I love flicker!

 

Is that a joke? People complain about the flicker of the ghosts in Pac-Man, but imagine how much they'd complain if even the walls of the maze flickered. The blocks in a Breakout-style game should not flicker.

[+Gemintronic]

I think a single pixel columns worth of flicker is acceptable. Unless is this causing grand mals..

[+Random Terrain]

I think a single pixel columns worth of flicker is acceptable. Unless is this causing grand mals..

 

What's the point, though? It just looks like something is wrong with the blocks. It doesn't look like shading and it certainly doesn't look 3D. (You'd need at least one more border, probably at the bottom of each block, to make it look 3D.)

[+Gemintronic]

 

What's the point, though? It just looks like something is wrong with the blocks. It doesn't look like shading and it certainly doesn't look 3D. (You'd need at least one more border, probably at the bottom of each block, to make it look 3D.)

 

The first post has been updated. What about now R.T.?

[Mr SQL]

 

Is that a joke? People complain about the flicker of the ghosts in Pac-Man, but imagine how much they'd complain if even the walls of the maze flickered. The blocks in a Breakout-style game should not flicker.

 

I like pac-man RT, flicker isn't alwasy bad The flicker in BRIK makes for an interesting variation though it is harder to look at on my Plasma display than my CRT Television.

 

Scrollout is a side scrolling Breakout that also flickers the blocks, but only when scrolling to reduce the effect:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/211404-scrollout-follow-the-ball-atari-2600/?hl=%2Bscrollout&do=findComment&comment=2745221

 

Loon,

awesome you making one of these! I kept trying to press the start button Look forward to trying the next build, you've got an advance reservation in my Harmony's Pong folder

How did you duplicate the shimmer effect?

[+Random Terrain]

 

The first post has been updated. What about now R.T.?

 

After hitting Alt + P, there is no flicker, but for me, the blocks are still irritating to look at. Notice how the blocks look in this image:

 

http://pdroms.de/pandora/arkanoid-v0-0-0-1-pandora-game-port

 

They have a semi-3D look and they're not irritating to look at. But I don't think bB users can do that on the Atari 2600. The best we could do is some mangled version that is so much worse that it's not worth the trouble. I'd rather stick with a Breakout or Super Breakout look with no side separations between the blocks than have an inferior version of 3D blocks from other consoles and computers.

[+Gemintronic]

 

I like pac-man RT, flicker isn't alwasy bad The flicker in BRIK makes for an interesting variation though it is harder to look at on my Plasma display than my CRT Television.

 

Scrollout is a side scrolling Breakout that also flickers the blocks, but only when scrolling to reduce the effect:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/211404-scrollout-follow-the-ball-atari-2600/?hl=%2Bscrollout&do=findComment&comment=2745221

 

Loon,

awesome you making one of these! I kept trying to press the start button Look forward to trying the next build, you've got an advance reservation in my Harmony's Pong folder

How did you duplicate the shimmer effect?

 

I think RepIxel8 was hoping for horizontal delineation between blocks - not shimmer or flicker. Looks like R.T. and RevEng think it's too distracting. I may skip it altogether.

 

Basically, I have a sprite and a missile pretending to be a vertical line. I triple them and displace them every other frame to appear like more lines.

[Mr SQL]

 

I think RepIxel8 was hoping for horizontal delineation between blocks - not shimmer or flicker. Looks like R.T. and RevEng think it's too distracting. I may skip it altogether.

 

Basically, I have a sprite and a missile pretending to be a vertical line. I triple them and displace them every other frame to appear like more lines.

Interesting, it's the grid then - I had been wondering if RepIxel8 had used sprites for the bricks instead of playfield pixels, gives them a different look.

[iesposta]

Most all the games I love the most on Atari 2600 employ some kind of flickering technique.

For hardware that has limited sprites and missiles, it is just what has to be done to create more objects.

I decided a long time ago that since my favorite games use some kind of flicker, that I have to admit that I like flickering because it lets games do more than they should.

Millipede flickers, The Official Frogger by Sega flickers, Ms. Pac Man flickers, Pac Man 4K flickers, Asteroids flickers, Stargate flickers, and so on.

 

I think the effect it gives those playfield lines are great! Certainly something I never expected to see, and made me wonder how that effect was created.

[+Gemintronic]

Going flicker-free would reduce it to 7 blocks per row. I dunno if that would be too simple. Maybe I'll test it on my plasma tv just for an additional sanity check.

[+Random Terrain]

Most all the games I love the most on Atari 2600 employ some kind of flickering technique.

For hardware that has limited sprites and missiles, it is just what has to be done to create more objects.

I decided a long time ago that since my favorite games use some kind of flicker, that I have to admit that I like flickering because it lets games do more than they should.

Millipede flickers, The Official Frogger by Sega flickers, Ms. Pac Man flickers, Pac Man 4K flickers, Asteroids flickers, Stargate flickers, and so on.

 

I think the effect it gives those playfield lines are great! Certainly something I never expected to see, and made me wonder how that effect was created.

 

Sometimes flicker has to be used, but when it can be avoided, good Atari 2600 programmers avoid it. They don't add it on purpose because they like to get high and watch the flicker. If I remember correctly, the mushrooms in Millipede don't flicker. You could make a bB version where even the mushrooms flicker because you think it looks cool, but I wouldn't play it.

[Mr SQL]

I think you've touched upon something really big here RT. A good programmer is going to use flicker to embed subliminal messages between frames; the 2600 makes it possible to control the individual frame and sublimate specific portions with full control over the framerate, the spectrum and the encoding frequency; the goal could make you eat popcorn and drink Coke or just keep playing the game; did you see that thread about specific foods people eat playing Atari like pretzels and potato chips? That's why.

[iesposta]

Although it hasn't been said, I think the original IS in batari Basic.

[RevEng]

The way bB sets the timers is very distinctive. I took a quick look at the stella disassembly of brik.bin, and the overscan timing code matches the bB 1.0 overscan code, as does the code that follows. (until I got bored of comparing, anyway)

 

Its definitely bB, but it looks like he's used a custom assembly minikernel for the paddle and pf life indicator area.

 

Also worth pointing out that the score is off-center, which is the classic giveaway.

[+Gemintronic]

Hmmn.. there's very little stigmatism regarding programming in bB. I wonder why the original brik guy chose not to disclose his "framework"? I have a feeling the "Desert Bus" guy did the same.

 

To me one pixel row/column is acceptable. To me every other frame flicker is acceptable. This is the most conservative use of flicker possible. Right now it serves to give us 13 delineated blocks in a row. I kill flicker and we get 7. Is the flicker that bad that such a tradeoff is needed? Also, is 7 blocks in a row too wimpy for a decent paddle game?

[RevEng]

Hmmn.. there's very little stigmatism regarding programming in bB.

Its still viewed as "cheating" by a minority. Ditto for some about using common bankswitching schemes. I also suspect the same folks would believe that the original Colecovision programmers were cheating by using Pascal.

 

 

I wonder why the original brik guy chose not to disclose his "framework"? I have a feeling the "Desert Bus" guy did the same.

While Desert Bus 2600 only has pictures of the game running on TV, taken from an angle, the facebook page has a screengrab of an early wip. Although they took pains to center the middle of the road with the score, with regard to the whole screen the score is off-center. Draw your own conclusions.

 

 

To me one pixel row/column is acceptable. To me every other frame flicker is acceptable. This is the most conservative use of flicker possible. Right now it serves to give us 13 delineated blocks in a row. I kill flicker and we get 7. Is the flicker that bad that such a tradeoff is needed? Also, is 7 blocks in a row too wimpy for a decent paddle game?

I don't see block delineation as a game enhancement. Its an effect that those familiar with the 2600 limitations perk up and take notice of, but if I were to point it out to my kids, they really wouldn't care one way or the other. Flicker should be used to enhance gameplay. If its used solely for visual effect, it should be impressive enough to overcome the annoyance of flicker, and I don't believe this is.

 

And 7 blocks is too wimpy for a decent paddle game.

[enthusi]

Well, if a game is REALLY good in Bb, I'm fine though its not my cup of tea.

But if a game is semi-good and/or unnecessarily big or has major drawbacks such as intensive flicker BECAUSE of being Bb, then I think its time to advance somehow actually.

What I do think should become the standard though:

credit Bb if you use it in your games and not trying to 'hide' its usage.

[Byte Knight]

Hmmn.. there's very little stigmatism regarding programming in bB. I wonder why the original brik guy chose not to disclose his "framework"? I have a feeling the "Desert Bus" guy did the same.

 

I agree - the scan lines in the title screen are a dead giveaway for bB. Interesting that these guys didn't post anything about their games in this forum...

[Byte Knight]

Well, if a game is REALLY good in Bb, I'm fine though its not my cup of tea.

But if a game is semi-good and/or unnecessarily big or has major drawbacks such as intensive flicker BECAUSE of being Bb, then I think its time to advance somehow actually.

 

I don't think most people care how a game is programmed, as long as it's fun... If a game is bad, it's still bad no matter how it's programmed.

 

 

 

What I do think should become the standard though:

credit Bb if you use it in your games and not trying to 'hide' its usage.

 

I agree with this - proper credit needs to be given to the people and tools that were used to create the game. After all, these guys probably couldn't have created their games without bB.