Merry Christmas from Micro Innovations (everything will be public domain)

[RGDiRocco]

On 12/15/2013 at 12:40 PM, RGDiRocco said:

If additional pictures of the card are needed I can provide them. Or you can find some at http://rich.dirocco.org/Coleco/adam/Expansion.htm

Updated site link: https://www.diroccovision.com/Coleco/adam/Expansion.htm

[RGDiRocco]

FINALLY I HAVE THE TRUE CARD!!!!

Edited October 26, 2023 by RGDiRocco

[HDTV1080P]

Back in the late 80’s and early 90’s I did purchase many Micro Innovations products including the AdamNET 1.44MB 3.5 inch disk drive and a 1MB expander (they also briefly sold a 2MB memory expander). I never did purchase the ADAMnet harddrive controller. In my conversations with Mark Gordon I was told that the internal hard drive controller was faster since it bypassed Adamnet. While Adamnet is ideal for floppy disks, its my understanding that a hard drvie or solid state drive is greatly slowed down with Adamnet. But using Adamnet means less software patches and greater compatibility. But people that used TDOS perfered the speed of the internal card.

This website I just looked at is awesome with great pictures and information on the Coleco ADAM.

 

https://www.diroccovision.com/Coleco/adam/Expansion.htm

 

I did not know that the Brewing Academy came out with new improved 1MB memory expander with battery backup (I would like a 8MB model). However all the ADAM hardware by the Brewing Academy is sold out for some reason. Hopefully they well get some more new ADAM items in stock soon.

 

https://thebrewingacademy.com/collections/colecovision-coleco-adam-hardware-consoles

[HDTV1080P]

We really need a SATA hard drive controller for the ADAM computer so that people can connect low cost and reliable SATA solid state drives and SATA hard drives.

Has anyone tried using one of these $8 SATA to IDE adapters on the ADAM to see if a SATA solid state drive can be connected to a old ADAM IDE hard drive controller?

 

https://www.amazon.com/NFHK-Motherboard-Converter-Adapter-Desktop/dp/B09GPGFLWB/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2OFK3BHJ54YV5&keywords=sata%2Bto%2Bide%2Badapter&qid=1698314023&sprefix=sata%2Bto%2Bide%2Badapter%2Caps%2C92&sr=8-5&th=1

[RGDiRocco]

2 hours ago, HDTV1080P said:

We really need a SATA hard drive controller for the ADAM computer so that people can connect low cost and reliable SATA solid state drives and SATA hard drives.

Has anyone tried using one of these $8 SATA to IDE adapters on the ADAM to see if a SATA solid state drive can be connected to a old ADAM IDE hard drive controller?

 

https://www.amazon.com/NFHK-Motherboard-Converter-Adapter-Desktop/dp/B09GPGFLWB/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2OFK3BHJ54YV5&keywords=sata%2Bto%2Bide%2Badapter&qid=1698314023&sprefix=sata%2Bto%2Bide%2Badapter%2Caps%2C92&sr=8-5&th=1

I ordered one. I’ll let you know.

[Geoff Oltmans]

On 12/23/2013 at 7:01 AM, hardhat said:

So I phoned Tony Morehen a few years ago (maybe 8 years ago) to see what was going on and to ask for permission to have the interested parties continue to maintain the software. I had managed to get a copy of the source code for TDOS from Guy Cousineau before that, and Guy suggested that I contact Tony to make sure he gave permission. We chatted for a while about what kinds of programming he was doing lately (at the time he was really into Visual Basic programming) and how he felt that TDOS and the related software should be treated. Any questions I asked him suggested that he was pretty happy to have people continue to spread and use TDOS, and he didn't have a problem with having myself or others update TDOS to reflect new hardware. So with his support, that is what we've done since then.

 

When I called and interviewed Mark Gordon back maybe 12 years ago about the legendary (and very expensive) trashing of the AdamNET harddisks, an issue that came up between Tony and Mark, was that Tony didn't feel that the performance over AdamNET was sufficient. So they had experimented with a high-speed AdamNET upgrade, but I guess it gets messy with normal speed and high-speed devices on the same wire. I guess it didn't work to Mark's satisfaction and so Mark eventually gave it up and decided that it was hopeless.

Are these TDOS sources available anywhere?

[NIAD]

11 hours ago, Geoff Oltmans said:

Are these TDOS sources available anywhere?

Hardhat (Dale Wick) hasn't been on AtariAge since July of 2017, so not likely to get an answer. I have never come across any T-DOS source code.

 

[tschak909]

wow, talk about a race condition. deleted.

 

-Thom

Edited October 27, 2023 by tschak909

[tschak909]

14 hours ago, RGDiRocco said:

I ordered one. I’ll let you know.

Seeing as you can't realistically use anything larger than 64MB, why not just use an IDE DoM (disk-on-module) and just call it done?

https://www.amazon.com/KingSpec-Vertical-Industrial-Compatible-Equipment/dp/B0BN3X41DC/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=ide+dom&link_code=qs&qid=1698375219&sr=8-2 Just wire up the power to the +5V on the card edge and GND, done.

 

-Thom

 

[NIAD]

On 10/26/2023 at 4:58 AM, HDTV1080P said:

We really need a SATA hard drive controller for the ADAM computer so that people can connect low cost and reliable SATA solid state drives and SATA hard drives.

Has anyone tried using one of these $8 SATA to IDE adapters on the ADAM to see if a SATA solid state drive can be connected to a old ADAM IDE hard drive controller?

 

https://www.amazon.com/NFHK-Motherboard-Converter-Adapter-Desktop/dp/B09GPGFLWB/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2OFK3BHJ54YV5&keywords=sata%2Bto%2Bide%2Badapter&qid=1698314023&sprefix=sata%2Bto%2Bide%2Badapter%2Caps%2C92&sr=8-5&th=1

No one is going to spend the time and money to develop a SATA HD Controller Interface considering the VERY limited amount of people in the community that would even consider purchasing one... especially since so many already have an IDE setup or can use large disk image volumes from 4Mb to 64Mb with the ADE and FujiNet SD Drives. Then there is the issue of WHO is going to write the Drivers for this SATA HD Controller Interface... there are only a couple knowledgeable enough programmers and they are not going to waste their time on such an endeavor when there are more interesting and worthwhile things they could be doing. You do know that no one has the source code for T-DOS, so it would have to be disassembled and that would be the easy part, lord knows how long it would take to figure it all out enough to implement a SATA driver.

 

The IDE Interface, both the original made by Micro Innovations and the current one made by MicroFox, are PLENTY good for everyone's needs, the software driver for T-DOS is rock solid, EOS is very good (some sound loss due to where in memory the driver is placed overwriting EOS sound routines) with the last update to it being done in 2014 by Doug Slopsema, the transfer speed is very good and probably pushing the ADAM's upper limits and there is plenty of storage for everything that is needed with 100MB of space available over the numerous EOS and T-DOS partitions. 

 

The Compact Flash Adapter with Compact Flash Cards is a reliable solid state solution and the largest majority are using this particular IDE drive option thanks to the Slopsema's doing all the homework in the past to put together a very nice and affordable package. Only a very small number of people are also using other IDE options like Hard, Zip and Sparq drives.

 

To wrap, your suggestion to look into the "SATA to IDE Adapter" and Thom's suggestion of the IDE DoM make a helluva lot more sense than someone making a SATA HD Controller. Perhaps there are other IDE options out there as well that some searching will bring to light.

 

I have to ask, What on Earth do you think you need an 8Mb Memory Expander on the ADAM for? Completely overkill.

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by NIAD

[tschak909]

1 hour ago, NIAD said:

No one is going to spend the time and money to develop a SATA HD Controller Interface considering the VERY limited amount of people in the community that would even consider purchasing one... especially since so many already have an IDE setup or can use large disk image volumes from 4Mb to 64Mb with the ADE and FujiNet SD Drives. Then there is the issue of WHO is going to write the Drivers for this SATA HD Controller Interface... there are only a couple knowledgeable enough programmers and they are not going to waste their time on such an endeavor when there are more interesting and worthwhile things they could be doing. You do know that no one has the source code for T-DOS, so it would have to be disassembled and that would be the easy part, lord knows how long it would take to figure it all out enough to implement a SATA driver.

 

The IDE Interface, both the original made by Micro Innovations and the current one made by MicroFox, are PLENTY good for everyone's needs, the software driver for T-DOS is rock solid, EOS is very good (some sound loss due to where in memory the driver is placed overwriting EOS sound routines) with the last update to it being done in 2014 by Doug Slopsema, the transfer speed is very good and probably pushing the ADAM's upper limits and there is plenty of storage for everything that is needed with 100MB of space available over the numerous EOS and T-DOS partitions. 

 

The Compact Flash Adapter with Compact Flash Cards is a reliable solid state solution and the largest majority are using this particular IDE drive option thanks to the Slopsema's doing all the homework in the past to put together a very nice and affordable package. Only a very small number of people are also using other IDE options like Hard, Zip and Sparq drives.

 

To wrap, your suggestion to look into the "SATA to IDE Adapter" and Thom's suggestion of the IDE DoM make a helluva lot more sense than someone making a SATA HD Controller. Perhaps there are other IDE options out there as well that some searching will bring to light.

 

I have to ask, What on Earth do you think you need an 8Mb Memory Expander on the ADAM for? Completely overkill.

 

I will gladly pay for a battery backed-up 8MB RAM unit to use as a ramdisk under T-DOS for development use.

 

It would complement my use of FujiNet very well. The only thing missing is being able to specify larger volumes that FujiNet can produce under CP/M and/or T-DOS, and we need to work to get this implemented. It's much harder than it ever should be, because nobody was thinking ahead AT ALL. and yes, I will harp on this, because this mistake should never be made again. Short-sighted thinking has caused way too much knowledge to be lost in so many retrocomputing communities because people wanted to fucking be gate-keepers, and this shit has to stop. We have to share.

 

-Thom

[NIAD]

2 hours ago, tschak909 said:

I will gladly pay for a battery backed-up 8MB RAM unit to use as a ramdisk under T-DOS for development use.

 

It would complement.....

I should have known and I stand corrected! 😃  For your needs, a Memory Expander with battery back-up would certainly come in handy and the only one that is available is the 1Mb that CharlesMouse designed and The Brewing Academy has been making/selling:

 

ColecoVision & Coleco ADAM Hardware & Consoles – The Brewing Academy

 

As far as T-DOS Source Code, I am going to check with Bob Slopsema (ADAMcon / ADAM News Network / MicroFox... he wears many hats!) if you haven't already and at worst, hopefully he can still reach out to Dale Wick.

 

For CP/M, there are the patched 8Mb disk image versions that Milli made a number of years ago and work with the ADE which means that they should work with the FujiNet. I know it's not exactly what you are talking about as these are locked with no means to alter the drives or their sizes. Perhaps Milli could help with this to at least address CP/M 2.2 so that "it just works" as you and others would like and in the meantime we'll hopefully get lucky on the T-DOS front.

 

- CP/M 2.2 & Assembler - 8Mb Drive A, 512 Directory Entries

- CP/M 2.2 & Assembler - 8Mb Drive A, EVE SP-1 Serial Interface at 4800 baud, Parallel Printer

- CP/M 2.2 & Assembler for ADE - 8Mb Bootable with CCP and Programs

- CP/M 2.2 & Assembler for ADE - 8Mb Blank Bootable with CCP

 

You can find them here with short text files included in the zip.

 

(AdamArchive.Org) - The home for everything ADAM

 

EDIT: read tschak909's post below about these CP/M image files that I listed above. Basically, be careful if you are going to use them.

Edited October 27, 2023 by NIAD

[HDTV1080P]

I also would like an 8MB or 64MB ramdisk with battery backup, and it looks like a new addressor chip was added so one does not need to own a MIB3 card with a cable attached between the two cards.

In the ideal world instead of having a ramdisk for the ADAM, I would love to see a a ramdisk card have a 64GB to 2TB SDXC card slot. Super fast SDXC cards are faster than the Adam CPU and instead of having a battery with ram, a 64GB SDXC card slot would be much better. Since one could swap SDXC cards that hold the ramdisk info.

 

Solid State drives and Hard drives are less in demand for the ADAM computer since a 20TB hard drive would be over kill if one uses a 20TB hard drive with a SATA to IDE converter board. Even a 2TB solid state drive might be considered overkill  with the ADAM. However since the Adamnet SD card products are in existence that allows people to use up to 32GB SDHC cards, that in many ways is a better Adamnet product to own. The Adamnet SD card hardware devices are limited to 1.44MB image slots but could be redesigned as one big 64GB or 2TB storage drive.

 

Glad to see people still developing new hardware and software for the ADAM computer. Maybe one of these days I might consider spending more time with the ADAM computer.  

[tschak909]

32 minutes ago, NIAD said:

I should have known and I stand corrected! 😃  For your needs, a Memory Expander with battery back-up would certainly come in handy and the only one that is available is the 1Mb that CharlesMouse designed and The Brewing Academy has been making/selling:

 

ColecoVision & Coleco ADAM Hardware & Consoles – The Brewing Academy

 

As far as T-DOS Source Code, I am going to check with Bob Slopsema (ADAMcon / ADAM News Network / MicroFox... he wears many hats!) if you haven't already and at worst, hopefully he can still reach out to Dale Wick.

 

For CP/M, there are the patched 8Mb disk image versions that Milli made a number of years ago and work with the ADE which means that they should work with the FujiNet. I know it's not exactly what you are talking about as these are locked with no means to alter the drives or their sizes. Perhaps Milli could help with this to at least address CP/M 2.2 so that "it just works" as you and others would like and in the meantime we'll hopefully get lucky on the T-DOS front.

 

- CP/M 2.2 & Assembler - 8Mb Drive A, 512 Directory Entries

- CP/M 2.2 & Assembler - 8Mb Drive A, EVE SP-1 Serial Interface at 4800 baud, Parallel Printer

- CP/M 2.2 & Assembler for ADE - 8Mb Bootable with CCP and Programs

- CP/M 2.2 & Assembler for ADE - 8Mb Blank Bootable with CCP

 

You can find them here with short text files included in the zip.

 

(AdamArchive.Org) - The home for everything ADAM

@NIAD I am aware of, and have used this disk.

Nobody should ever use it. Ever. It was implemented incorrectly, and the filesystem will destroy itself as it is used.

 

Because the block shift and block mask parameters were incorrectly specified (these are bit mask fields, and must use a contiguous number of bits), the filesystem will eat itself, specifically, any files written that need more than one block extent will start to overwrite blocks used by other files, and as the disk is used more, parts of the directory blocks will start being written to the data areas of these files.

 

When I pointed this out to Milli, his response amounted to, "I never really tested it."

 

-Thom

Edited October 27, 2023 by tschak909

[NIAD]

11 minutes ago, HDTV1080P said:

The Adamnet SD card hardware devices are limited to 1.44MB image slots but could be redesigned as one big 64GB or 2TB storage drive.

 

Glad to see people still developing new hardware and software for the ADAM computer.

One can use the Large Disk Images that 8BitMilli created with the MicroFox VDD, ADE and FujiNet SD Drives. These Large Disk Images are available in the following sizes... 4Mb, 8Mb, 16Mb, 32Mb and 64Mb. There are still limitations in using these, but it is a limitation imposed by the EOS operating system that regular disks or data packs are affected by as well... a max of an 8K directory or 233 total files. Seeing as a 6K directory allows for 233 files, there is no point in creating a directory larger then 6K.

 

We are all glad to see so much development for the ADAM and ColecoVision. 

[NIAD]

Just now, tschak909 said:

@NIAD I am aware of, and have used this disk.

Nobody should ever use it. Ever. It was implemented incorrectly.

Wow! Thanks for the heads up.

 

I did use the one configured with support for the Eve SP-1 Serial Interface, but only booted from that image file to test out 80 column output to a PC/terminal emulator. I didn't save anything to the 8Mb disk image.

 

 

[RGDiRocco]

ADAMnet HD Controller Boards #1 & #2 are being sent off for further testing. Still have this 50pin SCSI to figure out????