gambler172 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Hi Bob this was no criticize from me......i tried the game and i did not know KC,but it plays very well.,., And hi to Marc I did not see your comnent as a criticize Hope we see in O...,,,,,in may greetings Walter Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2957600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) Sound! (As close as I could get it). Believe it or not, there are notes that the O2 can do that the TIA can't! I ended up having to use a distortion for KC's movement sound because the other sounds don't go as low as needed. *NOTE* - some versions of ProSystem don't play the 'KC Movement' or the monster drone sound. I don't know why. MESS does though. Also re-worked the maze data, it's no longer hard-coded. All 4 mazes are in, I have them random at the moment. Now I need to do: - Select screen - Maze editor The program is at 32K right now (I haven't looked at how much ROM I have open yet). If the editor pushes it past that, there may have to be a separate cart for Crazy Chase. But at least it can build upon this code (Hopefully you'll be up to it Jaynz?) It's amazing that they got all of this in 2K KC.A78 KC.bin Edited March 29, 2014 by PacManPlus 4 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2958778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickR Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Totally 100% pure AWESOME. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2958796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I've been meaning to post this sooner, but now with sound it makes the need even more apparent. Thanks to both Jayzn and Bob for bringing attention and life to this game for the 7800. My first console was a 2600 and computer a Vic-20*. I also never knew anyone that had an O2 (Pre-internet), and quite frankly, had no interest in it. *cough*Cosmic Cruncher*cough* From the screenshots, I'm thinking it's (literally) a "baby" Pac-Man wannabe but I am always glad to see any development for the console. How wrong I was. This game is deceivingly challenging, fun, and addictive. I cannot state whether the gameplay is as good or worse on the O2, but what Bob is doing (Unsurprisingly so) again is delivering another excellent title to the 7800 console. Already the game plays great and I get a Mouse Trap-ish/Pac-Man-ish vibe, but in no way, shape, or form a wannabe. The difference is more like a Dig-Dug to Mr. Do! for me; two very similar yet also very different, great games. So looking forward to the final version and cart...Bravo! 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2958890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Sound! (As close as I could get it). Believe it or not, there are notes that the O2 can do that the TIA can't! I ended up having to use a distortion for KC's movement sound because the other sounds don't go as low as needed. Try some of the Super Pac-Man sounds instead. I think this is one bit where we can 'cheat' a little for the 7800. *NOTE* - some versions of ProSystem don't play the 'KC Movement' or the monster drone sound. I don't know why. MESS does though. Probably falls out of range. Mine doesn't do it either, sadly. That's definitely something to check on in hardware before a press run... Also re-worked the maze data, it's no longer hard-coded. All 4 mazes are in, I have them random at the moment. A pleasant, and honest surprise. I had already gotten used to the static screen. "Crap, I can't go that way" was a bit surprising. The program is at 32K right now (I haven't looked at how much ROM I have open yet). If the editor pushes it past that, there may have to be a separate cart for Crazy Chase. But at least it can build upon this code (Hopefully you'll be up to it Jaynz?) Going to be tricky. I thought both games would be small enough to fit on a 7800 cart... but if we're up to 32K already, how the heck are we going to add in VOICE for Crazy Chase?! It's amazing that they got all of this in 2K I would really have to see what hardware cheats they used in the O2 to get that down to 2K. I imagine a lot of it has to do with the built-in graphics capabilities and how they handle character-based tiles. (A lot of the O2 game-boards look alike for this reason). I think a lot of the RAM here has gone to rewriting what the O2 already had in rom. :S Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2958901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) Hey Jaynz: I actually did the sound for Super Pac-Man... I unfortunately don't see how using that is going to help get a lower tone I think I actually got the sounds as close as I'm going to get them in this case; thankfully the sounds for this game are fairly simple. Regarding the sounds that don't play on ProSystem, I actually had this issue with Scramble as well (again the drone sound in the background). It did play on the real thing though. I will of course double check this however. I just looked at the available ROM that's left at this point. I am using about 14K out of the 32K available. It's actually not that bad, we can take 4K away because the O2 has a built-in character set, which leaves about 10K against their 2K. We'll see after I put the maze editor in. Thanks for the kind words, Trebor. My best friend had the O2 growing up so we played that when we were at his house and the 2600 when we were at mine. Edited March 30, 2014 by PacManPlus 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2958931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
treismac Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Awesome work, PacManPlus!! My older cousin, who lived next door to me through the woods, had an Odyssey 2 and KC Munchkin. I wanted to buy an O2 just like him, but, fortunately, he persuaded my father and me (I was probably just 5 or 6) that the Atari 2600 was the way to go. This was probably the best advice I ever received. But, yeah... personal stories aside, thanks so much for this sweet port of the quirky little Pac-Mac clone that aspired to and achieved so much more. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2959093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchd61 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Excellent! I'm a big O2 and KC fan so I'm really looking forward to the finished product. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2959122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Well there is always this: Use POKEY sound ... or alternatively, use both, but have the game use logic to detect whether the host system has a POKEY or not, and adjust the sounds accordingly. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2959413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 I actually did the sound for Super Pac-Man... I unfortunately don't see how using that is going to help get a lower tone Comparing your Super Pac with KC Munchkin on YouTube, I thought the 'energized' sound on Super Pac would work well as a replacement. It already sounds very similar, and we know the routine works. Regarding the sounds that don't play on ProSystem, I actually had this issue with Scramble as well (again the drone sound in the background). It did play on the real thing though. I will of course double check this however. It's got to be something to do with cycling. It's just losing the data in the emulator somehow. Not sure which way the glitch really is, though, if it's a fault with Prosystem, or something documented askew... I know the A2600 could be very strange if you go out of spec. I just looked at the available ROM that's left at this point. I am using about 14K out of the 32K available. It's actually not that bad, we can take 4K away because the O2 has a built-in character set, which leaves about 10K against their 2K. We'll see after I put the maze editor in. Looks to be okay, and looking at Crazy Chase, it may fit in pretty well - though again the voice is going to be an issue. Other thoughts, since this an A7800 game, we should have a title screen. Also, a 'game over' and 'ready! go' moment would help with the flow dramatically. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2959481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+atari2600land Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I just played the rom for the first time, and all I can say is wow! You actually re-created KC Munchkin on the 7800. I have the original Odyssey 2 version, and except for the updated graphics, the 7800 game looks and plays similar to the Odyssey 2 version. I also have the ROM for KC Munchkin, and it is 4k, not 2k, so what is all this talk about KC being 2k? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2959494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Crazy Chase Thoughts Mostly same sounds as Munchkin Same interface as Munchkin 5 Mazes from 'select', plus maze editor. Does not have rotating cage. Dratapillar: tries to chase KC. Tail acts like energizers. Head is always lethal. Drats: chases KC. Turn white when KC energized, go in 'spin' when eaten but not destroyed. Trees: grow in play, slow down KC and Dratapillar when eaten. "Oh no!" voice when dying. Laughter voice followed by "Incredible" when screen cleared. "Go!" at start of level. If there's room, put voice in KC Munchkin as well at the same places? 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2959498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Title screen. This is what I have so far, although the maze editor doesn't do anything at the moment. The letters at the bottom are 1 to 4 - load in maze number to start P - 'Play' maze M - back to selection Menu Another bonus- if you select 'EDITOR' and hit 'Reset', it goes right to play the last maze edited. Pressing the joystick button goes into the editor itself. KC.A78 KC.bin 5 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2959545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrekMD Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 This is great! Excellent progress so far with the game! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2959570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theredlineboss Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Looking forward to this- I had toyed around with the idea of adding an O2 to the collection, just for KC & Krazy Chase. Will be great for KC to find a home outside of the O2! -Rob Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2959635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKON Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I am new to the K C Munckin game and i have been playing the one Rob is making...one question.. is one life all you get in this game??? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2959678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cmart604 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Soooo, has Marc made a box for this yet? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2959689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariFriend Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Can't wait to see the Crazy Chase part. I found it to be the more original of the KC titles. Still love Munchkin too. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2959716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 I am new to the K C Munckin game and i have been playing the one Rob is making...one question.. is one life all you get in this game??? Yep, which was pretty common in O2 games - due partially to its extremely limited resources, and also a little due to their not quite getting arcade-style play. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2959906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Yep, which was pretty common in O2 games - due partially to its extremely limited resources, and also a little due to their not quite getting arcade-style play.I don't think it had anything to do with resources.. A life counter shouldn't take up too many resources?? I think it was more your second point. Virtually all of the original games were written by the same person (Ed Averett), and he didn't get that games should have more than one life. :-) desiv (You can think of Ed as the PacManPlus of his system.. ) Edited March 31, 2014 by desiv Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2959931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 It's amazing that they got all of this in 2K According to Ed, pretty good interview here: http://www.dadgum.com/halcyon/BOOK/AVERETT.HTM "...all the code was assembly language and all graphic characters were designed by hand in binary." Another interesting point concerning O2 games and development: "The 2K ROM games all took about two months and the 4K ROM games took about four months to design. I was able to carry over about 60% of the code structure from one game to the next: things like scoring, collision detection, etc" Just trying to learn a little about the history and background of a system that I really know not a thing about...Just thought I would share 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2959955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devas Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Resources and time actually were an issue: once the Odyssey 2 was released, Magnavox wanted to drop it immediatly. So most of the games were programmed by Ed Averett, some of them are really good (especially the 4K games). There were also games programmed by other people, such as the excellent Killer Bees! programmed by Robert S. Harris. As for arcade ports, they were usually pretty bad: Popeye, Frogger, Demon Attack, Turtles and Q*bert were released for the system, and I think the only game worth playing is Turtles. In contrast, most of the rip-offs are actually pretty good, even if Alien Invaders-Plus! looks like a terrible clone of Space Invaders. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2960131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Resources and time actually were an issue:I'm not saying resources and time weren't an issue in general for coding.. I just don't see resources and time being an issue in changing the game from "ending when you die once" to "ending when you die 3 times." That seems like MUCH more of a design decision and not a technical/time restraint. desiv Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2960135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 That seems like MUCH more of a design decision and not a technical/time restraint. Only in isolation. Note that a lot of O2 games also lack intros, outros, or even 'mode states' that are common to other games. In KC Munchkin you are almost ALWAYS playing, with no real demarcation of when one game ends or another begins ASIDE from that one life. You can enter your 'high score name' at ANY TIME, after all, not just when the game's finished. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2960146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I may ask PAC-MAN-RED for a 128x40 logo for this game to take the space of the TEXT title.We have the space for it at least 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/220324-kc-munchkin/page/6/#findComment-2960218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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