knusperfisch Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Hi, is there somewhere an extended memory test program which shows the type/name of extension and test if it works properly? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 This is what I usually use: http://satantronic.atari.sk/xXRAM.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knusperfisch Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 This is what I usually use: http://satantronic.atari.sk/xXRAM.htm Thanks! This tool shows 16 banks, 256 KB and the test result is ok. But every program which actually uses extended memory crashes on my machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) What type of memory upgrade do you have in your Atari (model?) ? Edited January 21, 2014 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Thanks! This tool shows 16 banks, 256 KB and the test result is ok. But every program which actually uses extended memory crashes on my machine. I'm guessing 256k extended RAM, 64k 'base' RAM, for a total of 320k. There are two 320k upgrades I've heard of, Compy and Rambo. I don't know the compatibility problems with those. Here's another extended RAM tester. (I guess, since you're in Germany, you have the Compy 320k). Rambo is a ICD/FTe American. Atari800winplus running xram021.com shows a difference in the banking schemes for Compy and Rambo. Compy uses bits 7,6 and 3,2. Rambo uses bits 6,5 and 3,2. of $D301 (PORTB).Thats the eight bits 7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0 The software you're using has to be programmed for one or the other, I don't think, but maybe, someone wrote use of extended RAM for both. SHORTEST.zip Edited January 22, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 What type of memory upgrade do you have in your Atari (model?) ? Sorry I guess part of what you were wondering was what type of upgrade that is and I am asking you the same question. LOL, I was way too quick on replying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1050 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 It could be a software issue, can you name some of these programs that crash when using extended memory? MyDOS for one needs to have the proper banking bytes put in the table for that by the configuration routine and then you need to write DOS files back to the boot disk or the old table will bite you in the rear end all day long. Simple enough solution, but if we don't know you are trying to use MyDOS and you didn't know about the write back DOS files gotcha, we can't really help much. Other software has it's foibles too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roydea6 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 http://www.atari8.co.uk/lastword/LW321B.zip Try this program... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knusperfisch Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 Oops, seems like my last post is lost after the downtime today.Ok, again:Memory extension is self built after an article in german Atari Magazin in the mid 80's.It has a different bank layout, at least different to Compy Shop extension. Every test program reports ok, but last word freezes at "Loading lw.sys" even if all config files werde deleted before. Numen demo does not run (freezes with black screen after loading demo). Turbo Dos ramdisk works fine. I think I need to alter the bank layout to make the extension Compy Shop compatible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) yep I was on for hours and it looks like all my brain strain and research are gone. grrrr. oh well back to the drawing board. Whatever the name try to pick from upgrades that allow the seperate Antic access, they just seem well behaved and act better. Also it makes sure you can run a few rare demos and programs that insist on it. Edited January 22, 2014 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knusperfisch Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 btw. Last Word does also freeze at the same stage on stock Atari 800 XL with 64K.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 btw. Last Word does also freeze at the same stage on stock Atari 800 XL with 64K.... I don't know what kind of DOS you're using, etc, but be aware that the application loads into the RAM under the OS. Nevertheless, I just booted the ATR in the link rdea6 provided on a 64KB machine just to be sure (without altering any of the config files), and LW.EXE was loaded successfully via DOS option "L". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knusperfisch Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 I figured out that it only freezes with SIO2SD's fast SIO routines preloaded. Runs fine with slow SIO or in an emulator. Maybe the problem is not mainly the layout of the RAM extension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I figured out that it only freezes with SIO2SD's fast SIO routines preloaded. Runs fine with slow SIO or in an emulator. Maybe the problem is not mainly the layout of the RAM extension? It crossed my mind that it could be some SIO transmission error, although it therefore seems odd that something like The Last Word crashes at the exact same point each time. Having said that, high speed SIO can sometimes freeze up when there are lots of interrupts running. Try lots of different software; some titles might be fine with the high-speed, then you can narrow down your problems a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMartian Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I figured out that it only freezes with SIO2SD's fast SIO routines preloaded. Runs fine with slow SIO or in an emulator. Maybe the problem is not mainly the layout of the RAM extension? This is probably due to the fact that it boots of the SIO2SD at high speed, and then expects to talk to the 1050 at the same speed afterwards. You can either completely disable high speed SIO, or if you use Hias' patched rom in your Atari, you can press shift-control-s to reset the high speed detection after swapping drives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knusperfisch Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) This is probably due to the fact that it boots of the SIO2SD at high speed, and then expects to talk to the 1050 at the same speed afterwards. You can either completely disable high speed SIO, or if you use Hias' patched rom in your Atari, you can press shift-control-s to reset the high speed detection after swapping drives. There is no 1050 involved, what do you mean? I reckon that lw.exe overwrites memory used by the fast SIO routines which causes them to crash. I don't use a patched rom (yet). Edited January 23, 2014 by knusperfisch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 There is no 1050 involved, what do you mean? I reckon that lw.exe overwrites memory used by the fast SIO routines which causes them to crash. Where could these "fast SIO routines" reside? Let's be clear: are you placing the Last Word ATR on an SD card, placing that SD card into the SIO2SD, mounting it as D1: and then turning on the computer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMartian Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 There is no 1050 involved, what do you mean? I reckon that lw.exe overwrites memory used by the fast SIO routines which causes them to crash. I don't use a patched rom (yet). Sorry - this was about switching from SIO2SD to 1050 afterwards, which was your problem but in a another thread.. Oops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knusperfisch Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Where could these "fast SIO routines" reside? Let's be clear: are you placing the Last Word ATR on an SD card, placing that SD card into the SIO2SD, mounting it as D1: and then turning on the computer? exactly, and then some sectors of fast SIO routines are preloaded (if "topdrive" is set to "1" in sio2sd config) and you have to press select or start to boot the atr in high speed. Edited January 23, 2014 by knusperfisch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I don't use the more recent SIO2SD firmwares. Scenario I understand with bootable DOS ATR is the computer reads the boot loader and things proceed from there. Never experienced SIO2SD installing anything but the XEX boot loader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Well, you have an Atari Magazin memory upgrade which uses blocks 8ACE, compatible to Rambo, Newell, TOMS and others (Compyshop uses blocks 26AE). There were approx. 4 or 5 updates to the original do-it-yourself instructions in later Atari magazines... take a look at these updates. -Andreas Koch. Edited January 23, 2014 by CharlieChaplin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knusperfisch Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Well, you have an Atari Magazin memory upgrade which uses blocks 8ACE, compatible to Rambo, Newell, TOMS and others (Compyshop uses blocks 26AE). There were approx. 4 or 5 updates to the original do-it-yourself instructions in later Atari magazines... take a look at these updates. -Andreas Koch. I found that out in the meantime too, and tried to resolder the PIO wires from pin 15/16 to pin 16/17 like it's written in the last article of the series. It turned out that the whole memory area does not work at all after this modification. I need to probe the PIO pins. If I do not find out what's wrong, I'll remove the entire botch, replace RAM and PIO if necessary, and install a commercial RAM extension like ultimate 1mb or so. Edited January 24, 2014 by knusperfisch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knusperfisch Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 I don't use the more recent SIO2SD firmwares. Scenario I understand with bootable DOS ATR is the computer reads the boot loader and things proceed from there. Never experienced SIO2SD installing anything but the XEX boot loader. Ok, maybe that causes the misunderstanding: From firmware "documentation": vers. >=3.0 : Builtin very simple TURBO loader (for 7th bit mode - turbo mode similar to one used in XF551) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Ok, maybe that causes the misunderstanding: Yes, probably it does. I couldn't get the hang of modern SIO2SD firmwares and am still happy using the old one. I just use the peripheral as a bunch of serial disk drives, and none of the more complex functionality. If I want high-speed SIO, I use a DOS which handles high-speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiassofT Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I see two separate issues: Number one is the SIO2SD Turbo Loader. It needs a few bytes in RAM so this can conflict with software. It's basically the same as situation as with the 1050 Turbo upgrade I used quite a lot back in the old days. But your real problem is the AtariMagazin upgrade. It's a very good example on how to not design a RAM upgrade. The design is simple, neat, and wrong Due to it's bad design it's prone to show occasional timing problems which are hard to track down. I learned this the hard way, the AtariMagazin upgrade was the very first RAM upgrade I added to my 800XL back in the 80s... These timing errors occur because the AtariMagazin upgrade neglects the fact that the CAS signal extends beyond the normal CPU cycle. You can't just gate CAS with A14/A15, the 74LS375 latch in the Atari XL memory logic exists for a reason . A good check if you have timing issues with your RAM upgrade is the timing test in PAGEFIND.BAS (taken from the 130XE assembler). Download the ATR from here, boot the ATR with Basic enabled then enter 'RUN "D:PAGEFIND.BAS"' and select test #1. If you get any timing errors then there's no need to proceed to tests #2 or #3. To fix these issues you need to mimic the latching behaviour of the original RAM access logic and hook into CASINH instead of CAS which leads to a lot more complex design. Sorry, I don't have a link to a ready, really working, fix. At this point you could also just throw out the AtariMagazin upgrade and replace it by some other RAM upgrade. Back then I went this route and designed a proper RAM upgrade myself (also learning several more things the hard way). If you like soldering just have a look at my simple 512k SRAM upgrade: http://www.horus.com/~hias/atari/#sram512k - basically that's just a 512k SRAM chip and a GAL22V10 (you need a GAL programmer, though). Or buy one of the other preassembled, ready-to-install RAM upgrades. so long, Hias 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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