Silly memory related question.

[am1933]

In various documents it states that the TI99/4a is supplied with 16K RAM-extendable to 52K, am I right in assuming that the 52k figure consists of 16K supplied RAM, 32K expansion and the 4K that is on-board the Mini Memory module?

[+Ksarul]

That would be correct from the standpoint of the hardware/software released by TI. It doesn't look at what shows up in all of the various ROM/GROM areas: up to 48K of GROm in the console/cartridge port area (and the O/S actually supports much more there, as the cartridge port actually supports 16 GROM bases, which would increase the total at the cartridge port from 30K to 480K). It is also possible to put GROM in the PEB, as was done with the p-Code card (48K of GROM). TI also built hardware that added more RAM than one would expect to the system. The TI 128K RAM card (this one was a TI prototype--I have one) put 32K where one would expect it to be, 8K in the cartridge RAM space, and an additional 8K in the DSR space--allowing for programs that used up to 48K of CPU RAM directly. The rest of the RAM was bank-switched in, so a program could have conceivably used all 128K of space on a regular TI. The speech synthesizer actually added another memory bus to the TI--you could have something like 588K of speech memory (the speech synthesizer adds 56K of that, IIRC), though most of it would have only been used by the never-released modules that would have added vocabulary (the connector for these carts survived under the door of some early speech synthesizers).

[davidgatx]

Thanks for the great question and detailed reply. This provides a lot of insight into some of the unrealized potential of TI-99/4A. If only TI had persevered, stayed in the home computer market, who knows what might have been.

[sometimes99er]

If only TI had persevered, stayed in the home computer market, who knows what might have been.

 

I would have liked that too.

 

TI-99/4A sold well in 1982 through to 1984. The cheaper the more and then TI abandons it.

 

Here's what I see as the bigger problems compared with other big players of that era.

 

The consumer will hear of or experience:

 

• Slow Basic (if not one of the slowest).
• Access to smooth (Basic compared with machine code) games only through cartridges (all others have native access to machine code).
• Inaccessible or at least relative expensive for future assembler programmers (Mini Memory or worse).
• TI obviously trying to keep in control (trying to lockout parties without license).

 

TI would face:

 

• More complicated architecture making it more expensive to produce.

 

The TI-99/8 does not seem to offer much more and would certainly not be cheaper to produce.

 

The Commodore 64 was there already (1982-), and Atari ST and Amiga was just around the corner (1985-). TI would have had to design something that offered more (than the TI-99/8) and relatively cheap. Making something not compatible with the TI-99/4A would unfortunately have been the only way to go. One option could have been to jump ship and make a slow shift (on the surface) making their version of the MSX standard, - perhaps promising a TI-99/4A add on to make people more happy to move and then probably not delivering on that one. TI could then have had a hand in shaping the future MSX2 (1986-). A good alternative to the C64, and (hopefully) a cheaper solution than Atari ST and Amiga.

 

Edited January 25, 2014 by sometimes99er

[Brufnus]

On 1/26/2014 at 12:01 AM, sometimes99er said:

 

I would have liked that too.

 

TI-99/4A sold well in 1982 through to 1984. The cheaper the more and then TI abandons it.

 

Here's what I see as the bigger problems compared with other big players of that era.

 

The consumer will hear of or experience:

 

• Slow Basic (if not one of the slowest).
• Access to smooth (Basic compared with machine code) games only through cartridges (all others have native access to machine code).
• Inaccessible or at least relative expensive for future assembler programmers (Mini Memory or worse).
• TI obviously trying to keep in control (trying to lockout parties without license).

 

TI would face:

 

• More complicated architecture making it more expensive to produce.

 

The TI-99/8 does not seem to offer much more and would certainly not be cheaper to produce.

 

The Commodore 64 was there already (1982-), and Atari ST and Amiga was just around the corner (1985-). TI would have had to design something that offered more (than the TI-99/8) and relatively cheap. Making something not compatible with the TI-99/4A would unfortunately have been the only way to go. One option could have been to jump ship and make a slow shift (on the surface) making their version of the MSX standard, - perhaps promising a TI-99/4A add on to make people more happy to move and then probably not delivering on that one. TI could then have had a hand in shaping the future MSX2 (1986-). A good alternative to the C64, and (hopefully) a cheaper solution than Atari ST and Amiga.

 

Okay, a long time ago this was written, admitted. However, I couldn't help but to comment on this.

 

First of all, I fully agree with you. I bought my first ever computer myself back in 1984, which was a TI-99/4A. I soon got tired of using the "old CS1" of course, so a PEB and floppy drive was soon added, then a HFDC, then the TI was replaced with a Geneve, etc etc.

 

In 1993, I bought an Amiga CDTV as well. I still own and use both, but the Amiga was always - even then - admirable, especially its multitasking graphics based operating system, its quite good graphics and, especially, its incredible sound capabilities for the period. It has been surpassed greatly of course, but it's still impressive what that sound chip is able to produce, even today.

 

What I didn't know back then though, was how future minded and far ahead Commodore actually was at the time. It may not be a big surprise that the big box Amigas like the 4000 were prepared for such things as dedicated sound and graphics cards; much like modern PCs can use PCI and PCI-e buses for this. As a matter of fact, even the A500 (and CDTV) - with very little expansion options with respect to this - actually supports it (RTG; Retargetable Graphics).

 

Thus, when I opted for a PiStorm accelerator, based on a Raspberry Pi and an adapter board which fits in the 68K socket and thereby replaces the 68K CPU, I didn't initially consider such things. However, with this accelerator, it not only runs at almost 2,000 times the speed of the original CPU, has some 300 MB Fast RAM and potentially more, high speed "hard drive" on an sd card, wi-fi etc but also hi res true color HDMI graphics and potentially enhanced sound (AHI).

I think that's absolutely mind blowing for such an old computer. c".)

 

I love my TI's and Geneve's and I still use them to this day. But the Amiga world really took me by storm back in the day, and continues to do so.

Perhaps the thing I miss the most on the TI/Geneve platform, is a better sound chip, a TI-Paula so to speak...  

Edited October 21 by Brufnus

[+TheBF]

As a former Western Union employee I worked for the company that:

• in 1880s told Bell that his Telephone was "too complicated to be a practical communication device"
• in the 1990S told a certain person (now famous) that they didn't need his internet based payment system 
• in the 2000s told a little African company that was moving money with SMS on mobile phones, to "come back when you are making more money"

I feel that TI fell into the same trap when micro-computers came along. It seems to always happen when there is a real business disruption.

The incumbent companies want to control the new thing, not realizing, or even believing, that the the new thing makes them obsolete. 

 

Had TI provided the path to a micro-computer revolution there might have been more "workspaces" in Personal Computers!   

 Alas, it was not to be. 

 

[apersson850]

It's always easier to predict the future if you wait until it has happened.

[+OLD CS1]

6 hours ago, apersson850 said:

It's always easier to predict the future if you wait until it has happened.

I knew you would say that.

[+Vorticon]

On 10/20/2024 at 8:19 PM, Brufnus said:

Perhaps the thing I miss the most on the TI/Geneve platform, is a better sound chip, a TI-Paula so to speak...  

There is a SID chip card for the TI called SID Master. @Tursi made the only game that takes advantage of it called Super Space Acer. 

[RXB]

The consumer will hear of or experience:

 

• Slow Basic (if not one of the slowest).

RXB can run TI Basic much faster and is backwards compatible too. Some routines are extremely fast. 

 

[apersson850]

But that was not possible in the 1982-1984 time span when it competed with other computers.

[+TheBF]

16 hours ago, apersson850 said:

It's always easier to predict the future if you wait until it has happened.

 

It was put another way by the famous American *philosopher Yogi Berra:

 

"It's hard to tell what's gonna happen, especially when it's in the future"  

 

 

*American professional baseball catcher