Falconhood Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 What we would want, and what is marketable to the general public can two completely different things. Voila. VS, "We aren't getting it" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Voila. VS, "We aren't getting it" Again, to clarify, the Atari Flashback 5 is a known quantity, so we know we're not getting any of that stuff. That's the main point. It's not particularly fruitful to have a wishlist or dream list or whatever it is you want to call it about a product that's already being released a certain way. Still, I won't interrupt anymore with the reality. I get it and will butt out from this point forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconhood Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Again, to clarify, this is a "Dream List" No buzz-killing "reality" should destroy creative dreaming. Reminds me of the time Steve Jobs argued with a coworker at Atari about making a game in color. The other guy kept saying that it's IMPOSSIBLE...Jobs wouldn't accept that. Edited March 5, 2014 by Falconhood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Again, to clarify, this is a "Dream List" No buzz-killing "reality" should destroy creative dreaming. Reminds me of the time Steve Jobs argued with a coworker at Atari about making a game in color. The other guy kept saying that it's IMPOSSIBLE...Jobs wouldn't accept that. Again, again, there's nothing wrong with that, but we know what the Atari Flashback 5 already is, so it's really not "reality," but REALITY. You can dream all you want about the Flashback 5, but it doesn't change what we're getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconhood Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Again, to clarify, this is a "Dream List"...not a reality list. see the title: "Atari Flashback 5 New Features (Dream List)" This means we are to dream-storm. Think outside the box. But, there's always a person that kills the creative juices in every group, isn't there? My dreams: Atari Flashback 5 will be Atari 5200, but with better controllers, same shape is fine. NO big controller holding area like on the original. OR Atari Lynx (and portable!) OR Atari XE with a keyboard and a light-gun that somehow works with the new HD TVs now, if the pattern is consistent, the next response will be a person saying "no, bah-humbug! reality is it'll be boring! and just another rehash of the crap we already have!" Edited March 5, 2014 by Falconhood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyd97 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Again, again, there's nothing wrong with that, but we know what the Atari Flashback 5 already is, so it's really not "reality," but REALITY. You can dream all you want about the Flashback 5, but it doesn't change what we're getting. When are we going to get details on this unit? such as sd slot, wired controllers, game lineup, release date, etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenjennings Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Again, to clarify, this is a "Dream List"...not a reality list. see the title: "Atari Flashback 5 New Features (Dream List)" This means we are to dream-storm. Think outside the box. But, there's always a person that kills the creative juices in every group, isn't there? My dreams: Atari Flashback 5 will be Atari 5200, but with better controllers, same shape is fine. NO big controller holding area like on the original.. . . Just say "Atari Flashback 6" and everyone will be happy. :-) A 5200 or XL/XEGS clone would be cool. Especially if the 5200 clone comes with better controllers. People seem to assume the Flashbacks would only sell in proportion to the original platform. Most people are completely unfamiliar with the 5200/Atari 8-bits, so it would seem like a new game to most people which could mean better sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 When are we going to get details on this unit? such as sd slot, wired controllers, game lineup, release date, etc.... When I'm able to, I'll let you know the details if AtGames doesn't do a press release first. All I can say is that it will have more games than ever (though still missing Activision and other important titles due to inability to get licenses) and the underlying emulation engine will have further tweaks over the 4 (no surprise there). The SD card slot is a no-go, sadly. It was briefly considered, but I don't think they were allowed to. Yeah, it makes no sense. While the Intellivision and ColecoVision Flashbacks will have wired controllers, right now I think the 5 still has the wireless ones, with the wired pair sold separately. Hopefully I'll know more within the next few months (or sooner). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 A 5200 or XL/XEGS clone would be cool. Especially if the 5200 clone comes with better controllers. People seem to assume the Flashbacks would only sell in proportion to the original platform. Most people are completely unfamiliar with the 5200/Atari 8-bits, so it would seem like a new game to most people which could mean better sales. While that might be an interesting strategy, I can tell you that's not how the thinking works, at least at AtGames. It HAS to be what people remember, otherwise they don't pursue it. Based on what I've seen/discussed, it seems like the only new platform (beyond the Intellivision and ColecoVision that come out this year) being seriously considered for potential future products are the C-64 or Amiga, and that has a lot to do with the availability of a large number of games that will be easy to license. If there was a significant rights holder to a decent amount of Atari 5200 or Atari 8-bit games (minimum 30+) and it included a few recognizable names in there (like Frogger, for instance), I'm sure they would at least entertain the idea. I'm just not sure there is such an entity out there, though. I also suspect recreating the controllers for the 5200 would present a possible problem, so it would have to be something on the Atari 8-bit side most likely. Then the branding could be something like Atari Computer Flashback or something like that? Who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapetino Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 While that might be an interesting strategy, I can tell you that's not how the thinking works, at least at AtGames. It HAS to be what people remember, otherwise they don't pursue it. Based on what I've seen/discussed, it seems like the only new platform (beyond the Intellivision and ColecoVision that come out this year) being seriously considered for potential future products are the C-64 or Amiga, and that has a lot to do with the availability of a large number of games that will be easy to license. If there was a significant rights holder to a decent amount of Atari 5200 or Atari 8-bit games (minimum 30+) and it included a few recognizable names in there (like Frogger, for instance), I'm sure they would at least entertain the idea. I'm just not sure there is such an entity out there, though. I also suspect recreating the controllers for the 5200 would present a possible problem, so it would have to be something on the Atari 8-bit side most likely. Then the branding could be something like Atari Computer Flashback or something like that? Who knows? Having gotten into the licensing world of classic video games some recently, I have seen that what Bill is saying is pretty much a spot on assessment. We as classic fans might not appreciate that perspective, but this is basically the market reality for mass retail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyd97 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 When I'm able to, I'll let you know the details if AtGames doesn't do a press release first. All I can say is that it will have more games than ever (though still missing Activision and other important titles due to inability to get licenses) and the underlying emulation engine will have further tweaks over the 4 (no surprise there). The SD card slot is a no-go, sadly. It was briefly considered, but I don't think they were allowed to. Yeah, it makes no sense. While the Intellivision and ColecoVision Flashbacks will have wired controllers, right now I think the 5 still has the wireless ones, with the wired pair sold separately. Hopefully I'll know more within the next few months (or sooner). Can you say if the Taito games are back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Can you say if the Taito games are back? There are some surprises on the Atari side, but I haven't seen the complete list yet, so I don't know for sure if/how Taito will be represented this go round. I only know the number of games, which I can't say, but again, it's a big number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlezone Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I will buy it only if there will be listed (or can play) all games I had when I was a child, 32-33 years ago: Pole position Combat Vanguard Space Invaders Seaquest jungle Hunt Dig Dug Pitfall 2 Kangaroo Fishing Derby E.T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 It won't have a few of those on there, including Pitfall 2 and E.T. One guess at why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Would love to see for the "imaginary"/"impossible to change" Flashback 5 / possible Flashback 6 = Retron 5 - "Atari Lovers" Style: 1. Atari 2600 2. Atari 5200/8-bit 3. Atari 7800 4. Atari Lynx Carrying over all the features of the Retron 5 of course: Cartridge Slots, HDMI out, a bluetooth wireless controller and ports for all original Atari compatible controllers. Bonus of course: SD slot. It would be nice to see ST and Jaguar support in there, but having just the four systems listed above would be amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Would love to see for the "imaginary"/"impossible to change" Flashback 5 / possible Flashback 6 = Retron 5 - "Atari Lovers" Style: 1. Atari 2600 2. Atari 5200/8-bit 3. Atari 7800 4. Atari Lynx Carrying over all the features of the Retron 5 of course: Cartridge Slots, HDMI out, a bluetooth wireless controller and ports for all original Atari compatible controllers. Bonus of course: SD slot. It would be nice to see ST and Jaguar support in there, but having just the four systems listed above would be amazing. While that's something AtGames would never do, of course, I'd love to see Hyperkin do another version of the RetroN, assuming that the 5 is all that we hope it's going to be (and it's looking quite promising). Presumably the technology would be more or less the same - run some type of Android-based emulation layer that dumps the cartridges to memory - so there shouldn't necessarily be major hurdles in that regard. Supposedly the rumor is Hyperkin doesn't believe the market is big enough for pre-Crash systems, but I have to believe that, if done right and with the right mix of systems (Atari 2600, Intellivision, ColecoVision, as the foundation), there could at least be close to 50% of the potential market for the RetroN 5. It's something to consider for us as a group to petition Hyperkin about if the RetroN 5 hits most of its stated goals when it's released next month. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Funny, you mentioned the whole "right mix of systems". My second/alternative thought, which I didn't post as it "depressed" me (I'll explain in just a little bit), was releasing the line "Generation" style: Generations 1 & 2 together: ------------------------------------O2 Atari 2600 Intellivision ColecoVision Atari 5200/8-bit Then a Generation 3: ----------------------------- NES Atari 7800 SMS.... ...I stopped completing the addition to the post (and the list) and deleted it, as I realized the Retron 5 is already covering Generation 3 (SMS via add-on or converter pass thru cart) and Generation 4. The only thing that is not covered for Generation 3 is the Atari 7800 - which already received a "Flashback" type of release, so even more so, the likelihood or interest of anyone being concerned about tying in the Atari 7800 in a modern day style console is probably hopeless (Hence, my aforementioned "depressed" state). Still would love to see something pre-crash (2600/5200/8-bit) as well as post-crash (7800/Lynx/(maybe even) ST/Jaguar) Atari, and believe it will surface...eventually. Whether combining with other platforms (Atari 2600, Intellivison, ColecoVision simultaneous commercials for a game release used to be huge), and perhaps someone with deep enough pockets can be convinced of what I believe your thoughts of a ~50% of the numbers this Gen 3/4 console would sell. Absolutely though, the Retron 5 needs to live up to the hype and sell well, or it makes it all even more of a pipe dream. Maybe then again if the Retron 5 is "hackable" someone can add 7800 emulation code and a slot-pass through for the cartridge slot... Yes, that would be more unrealistic thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconhood Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 everyone will be happy. :-) How do I UNSUB to this thread? I tried using UNFOLLOW, but it's still on my CONTENT page, and I'm hate to see a thread I can no longer reply to showing up where I feel obligated to read. TIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I'm a little surprised to hear that a 5th one is being made. Even more surprised at Intellivision and Colecovision versions. (Will those have homebrews?) I wouldn't have thought that they sell enough units to justify it but I guess I'm wrong. How well did the 4 sell? Unfortunately I never see these sold in stores in Canada. Not sure where to get them around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I'm a little surprised to hear that a 5th one is being made. Even more surprised at Intellivision and Colecovision versions. (Will those have homebrews?) I wouldn't have thought that they sell enough units to justify it but I guess I'm wrong. How well did the 4 sell? Unfortunately I never see these sold in stores in Canada. Not sure where to get them around here. It seems that the Intellivision one won't have homebrews this time around for some technical reasons with the emulation, but it's possible that will be resolved for the next one. There's still a solid selection of "back in the day" games, so that's not really a major issue. The ColecoVision one having homebrews is still being evaluated. I'm not sure what deals can get done in time, plus, of course, if it's not an original creation, there are further licensing issues. Quite a few of the more recent ColecoVision homebrews have of course been of the "hope no one notices the IP" variety. It's my understanding they're sold in several big box stores in Canada (Toys r Us, etc.) like they are here in the US, but even here it seems hit or miss what inventory is in place where. It seems like sometimes it just "shows up" one day. You can always do mail order, of course, through places like Amazon and the AtGames Website (though I haven't checked the latter in a while--it may just be accessories there; EDIT: Just checked, yeah, they sell the latest stuff on there, but it's at full list price). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I did check Toys R Us here in Windsor shortly after the 4 was released but I was told they didn't have any and weren't sure if they would be. Some of the bigger markets such as London, Toronto, and Ottawa perhaps but maybe Windsor wasn't on their radar? I can only guess as I never bothered checking back. I thought I remember some saying that Costco's in Canada carried them but I don't shop there. I have a moral aversion to stores that charge a membership fee to shop there but that's a topic for another day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyd97 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I wonder if they are going to fix the menu screen, so it is not all blurry on this model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I wonder if they are going to fix the menu screen, so it is not all blurry on this model. Really, it comes down to the TV that you use. A composite connection really doesn't play nice with many modern displays. If you use the thing on an old tube TV, it obviously looks fine. Again, I hope that they upgrade the connector to HDMI at some point. I would assume they'd have to. I haven't been told one way or the other if these 2014 systems will use HDMI or not, but I'm thinking not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyd97 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Really, it comes down to the TV that you use. A composite connection really doesn't play nice with many modern displays. If you use the thing on an old tube TV, it obviously looks fine. Again, I hope that they upgrade the connector to HDMI at some point. I would assume they'd have to. I haven't been told one way or the other if these 2014 systems will use HDMI or not, but I'm thinking not. I don't believe it is a composite issue. It is just the menu screen, not everything. The Flashback 3 menu screen looks great on the same tv. I have heard other people have the same problem. I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+pboland Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) Just say "Atari Flashback 6" and everyone will be happy. :-) A 5200 or XL/XEGS clone would be cool. Especially if the 5200 clone comes with better controllers. People seem to assume the Flashbacks would only sell in proportion to the original platform. Most people are completely unfamiliar with the 5200/Atari 8-bits, so it would seem like a new game to most people which could mean better sales. An Atari 8-bit computer/5200 flashback would be so easy to market if people are willing to think outside the box. Call it Flashback 6 "Atari Extreme", put it in a 2600 style "vader" case (that way it looks familiar to people yet different from the wood grain) and include two 7800 style controller, or the control pads (NES style) for the two action buttons that may be necessary for some of the 5200 ports (not sure how many used more than one button) and maybe a keypad controller (similar to the 2600 style totally option or maybe as a extra buy). The best part about an "Atari Extreme" system like this is it should be able to emulate all the Atari 8bit computers/system including the 2600 and 7800. The trick is to just tie into the 2600 look and people will buy it. The system look and the look of the games will feel very familiar to the people who bought the other flashback units. Plus it can be looked at as an upgrade and who doesn't like upgrades. It's all in the marketing. Edited March 11, 2014 by pboland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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