pirx Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 @billkendrick - you are 100% right, I used Action! editor (and PC editors as well). Nevertheless here is a way to input longer lines - you can circumvent 3 physical lines = 1 logical line E: constraint with few POKEs. I haven't got them on me right now, but 5 physical lines is doable without modifying OS ROM [: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+JAC! Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Hehe, and I told in yesterday in the ABBUC Forum "and this way you can cheat in the 10 liners' content, so Bunsen should update the rules" ... too late :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunsen Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Yeah, too late. Next year we should divide into two categories. Category 1: Programs that can typed in at the real machine and category 2: Tricks allowed to expand the logical line beyond 120 characters (not possible to type in at real Atari). But it wasn't predictable that this little contest gets so much attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirx Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) there is a better trick - one can easily run machine code without USR commad, i.e. within the contest rules. USR ain't no only command jumping around Edited March 18, 2014 by pirx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Right... Zenon Mikołajczyk (Magnus) put machine code in REM lines in my "5zł compo" on atariarea years ago... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenjennings Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I call BS! The lines are way more than what could be typed in BASIC with the E: editor device. This was obviously written in another editor and ENTER-ed. Oh? And what is the limit on that? (he asks nonchalantly with no suspicious motives.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billkendrick Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Hope I am not a pain in the ass ... but I can not help it because I am a former editor and game tester for magazines. Hence ... well ... So, please look again at my screenshot: You can see a line of three blue tiles with the letters »LOA«. Directly below the »O« you can see a blue-ish tile with the dotted pattern which says »free space«. But from the game logic there can not be a free place marked blue-ish. The underlaying tile from the dark red-ish 1st floor should be visible instead. Free places can only be marged dark red-ish. An other possibility would be a free space on the 1st floor which is somehow erroneous displayed blue-ish. But from the game logic there are tiles to the left an right. So no free space possible here. I suspect a error in the game logic. Hm, it could be. How interesting! (From the screenshot, I just assumed that was the blinking 'cursor' position.) Happen to recall what steps you took to cause this? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+therealbountybob Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Hehe, and I told in yesterday in the ABBUC Forum "and this way you can cheat in the 10 liners' content, so Bunsen should update the rules" ... too late :-) Not too late - make the rule it should be typeable on a real atari with no tricks and no machine code; there is still time for the few programs to be adjusted 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirx Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) In my humble opinion requirement of being able to type the program using E: device is kinda broken. What about XEP80 users? Also 120 chars limit of the default, unmodified Atari is adjustable, just as the left margin value (6 chars extra!). Also I reckon this of hardly a cheating - I was using Action! editior 25 years ago as well for editing both BASIC and Mac/65 source - this was the easiest way to e.g. copy and modify portions of code. Please note that even if the limit of, say, 120 chars is introduced, it will not be possible to edit these lines in unmodified E: as it is certain programmers will use abbreviations and the resulting line will be longer than 120 chars. So, just add machine code exclusion regardless how the machine code is invoked and no more constraints are needed. THis is the beauty of such contests that they push the limits and break them! Best, pawel /pirx/ kalinowski Edited March 19, 2014 by pirx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozar Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I call BS! The lines are way more than what could be typed in BASIC with the E: editor device. This was obviously written in another editor and ENTER-ed. That said, I've been working on a tool to let me do just that -- edit code in ASCII on my Linux laptop, and 'send it to' TBXL. http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/atari/linux2tbasicxl/ (Maybe next year, though, the rules should declare whether "can actually be typed into BASIC on a real Atari" is required. ) It's even easier than that. I got my program working, listed it to disk, and then loaded it into The Last Word to combine the lines. :-) I also wrote a program that would take the 10 line listed file and break it up to multiple lines for when I needed to change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunsen Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 29th game registered Jumpsheep by fdingler Paddleship by Bill Kendrick Sijmen by Gunnar Kanold Squirrel by fdingler Shmup by Bill Kendrick Colfusion by Irgendwer Planets by Bill Kendrick Slice by Bill Kendrick GozMind by gozar Retracted Carrera by Daniel Serpell Minijong by Bill Kendrick Jump! by Xuel Count1ing Zoo by 1NG Hanged Man by Jakub Husak Gwobby Micro by Jason Kendall Minidash by Bill Kendrick Puzzler 2014 by Sleepy Drunk Pistol by mgr inz. Rafal Crack My Luggage by gozar Roguelike by Jakub Debski Nimx by Cliff Hatch Catch by Chris Read Grue Killer by Reaperman Joyas by Daniel Serpell Dodge Racer by Reaperman Abyss by Jakub Debski Fuky Bird by 1NG Puzzler Duell by Sleepy Flappy by pirx BluesJam by Savetz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savetz Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 My second entry: ABDUCT10. Pronounced "Abduction" ABDUCT10.atr 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) THis is the beauty of such contests that they push the limits and break them! Best, pawel /pirx/ kalinowski Why not try pushing the limits of creativity to create an original game instead of trying to push the limits of the contest rules. To me this is a 120 chrs, no machine code, Turbo Basic language contest and the most creative and original game shall win within those constraints, it is not who can cheat the editor/compiler better contest Edited March 20, 2014 by atari8warez 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Island2Live Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Yeah, too late. Next year we should divide into two categories. Category 1: Programs that can typed in at the real machine and category 2: Tricks allowed to expand the logical line beyond 120 characters (not possible to type in at real Atari). But it wasn't predictable that this little contest gets so much attention. Please keep in mind - you said it by yourself somewhere else in this thread - this is a fun contest. So the fun is not only »What can you do with 10 Turbo Basic XL lines« but also - and I am totally with it - »How can you squeeze as much as possible in 10 Turbo Basic XL lines«. I was blown away how pirx was able to put that amount into one Basic line for his »Flappy« game (and was so generous to share the code with the community). Beside that's also the spirit of ANY programming: How can you squeeze the most out of given facts. That's the reason why companies like Activision back in 1982 were able to display that many sprites on the 2600 system and companies like »Imagic« learned from them and produced great games on their own (not sure about the timeline though; who learned from whom). I don't see any problems at all. Watch and learn is the motto. If this isn't fun ... Kind regards, Henrik (Island2Live) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Island2Live Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Hm, it could be. How interesting! (From the screenshot, I just assumed that was the blinking 'cursor' position.) Happen to recall what steps you took to cause this? Thanks! Unfortunately not, sorry. I just played your game. Maybe the supplied machine state for Altirra 2.40 can help a little? Kind regards, Henrik (Island2Live) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+JAC! Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) >THis is the beauty of such contests that they push the limits and break them! I fully agree here. Breaking the rules is also creativity. And if then next years contest has adapted rules, that also fine. Otherwise it would be unfair for people how streched "the other goal". Hence 2 catgories it perfect. Here's one of my favourite "breaking the rules releases": https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=10984 This picture is created by a program that correctly shows "256 bytes used" when you look at the Windows files system :-)I laughed my ass off when I found out how they did it. Edited March 20, 2014 by JAC! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+therealbountybob Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 So now we have three contests regular 120 chars using margin poke and abbreviations only total anarchy all a bit of fun as Gwobby will be kicking butt as usual (so last place is covered there) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+JAC! Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 "rouguelike" is absolutely great - big respect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunsen Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 30th game registered Jubilee-ee! Jumpsheep by fdingler Paddleship by Bill Kendrick Sijmen by Gunnar Kanold Squirrel by fdingler Shmup by Bill Kendrick Colfusion by Irgendwer Planets by Bill Kendrick Slice by Bill Kendrick GozMind by gozar Retracted Carrera by Daniel Serpell Minijong by Bill Kendrick Jump! by Xuel Count1ing Zoo by 1NG Hanged Man by Jakub Husak Gwobby Micro by Jason Kendall Minidash by Bill Kendrick Puzzler 2014 by Sleepy Drunk Pistol by mgr inz. Rafal Crack My Luggage by gozar Roguelike by Jakub Debski Nimx by Cliff Hatch Catch by Chris Read Grue Killer by Reaperman Joyas by Daniel Serpell Dodge Racer by Reaperman Abyss by Jakub Debski Fuky Bird by 1NG Puzzler Duell by Sleepy Flappy by pirx BluesJam by Savetz Abduct10 by Savetz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billkendrick Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Here's a maze game: http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/atari/nomam2014/maze/ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billkendrick Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Here's a "Bagh Chal" (Nepalese board game of Tigers vs. Goats) in 10 lines of TurboBASIC XL. http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/atari/nomam2014/baghchal/ I've been wanting to make a Bagh Chal game since seeing a board & pieces at a local Tibetan gift shop, over 15 years ago. I never actually played it until digging up an online version this evening. Based on that, and the Wikipedia description, I came up with this! It's for two players, alternating turns at the keyboard. The game doesn't understand when either player wins, so in that sense it's more like a "smart board game board" than a true game. Hopefully folks enjoy it, nonetheless! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunsen Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 32nd game registered Jumpsheep by fdingler Paddleship by Bill Kendrick Sijmen by Gunnar Kanold Squirrel by fdingler Shmup by Bill Kendrick Colfusion by Irgendwer Planets by Bill Kendrick Slice by Bill Kendrick GozMind by gozar Retracted Carrera by Daniel Serpell Minijong by Bill Kendrick Jump! by Xuel Count1ng Zoo by 1NG Hanged Man by Jakub Husak Gwobby Micro by Jason Kendall Minidash by Bill Kendrick Puzzler 2014 by Sleepy Drunk Pistol by mgr inz. Rafal Crack My Luggage by gozar Roguelike by Jakub Debski Nimx by Cliff Hatch Catch by Chris Read Grue Killer by Reaperman Joyas by Daniel Serpell Dodge Racer by Reaperman Abyss by Jakub Debski Fuky Bird by 1NG Puzzler Duell by Sleepy Flappy by pirx BluesJam by Savetz Abduct10 by Savetz Maze by Bill Kendrick Bagh Chal by Bill Kendrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Hmmm, reminds me (somehow) of "Motie" http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-motie_3543.html Allthough it is much simpler, I really like Motie! -Andreas Koch. Edited March 23, 2014 by CharlieChaplin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billkendrick Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 You can clearly see the blue dotted field surrounded by occupied fields. Ah-hah! I had it happen to me just now. I think the C() array isn't getting filled up enough, compared to where in that array random pieces are being picked. In other words, it's finding that C(x)=0, so it's drawing a (appropriately-colored, for the height it is on the board) blank checkerboard shape as a tile. :-) I THINK that removing the "-1" in "FOR I=0 TO L-1" in line 20 will prevent this. That said, either way, the board in play is probably unwinnable. This 10-liner doesn't guarantee winnable Mahjong pyramids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billkendrick Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Here's "Isol", a 10-line rewrite of "Isolation" from a magazine type-in game for the C=64 from 1990 (with slightly tweaked rules). http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/atari/nomam2014/isol/ 2-4 players take turns moving around the board, and destroying tiles, in an attempt to trap their opponents. The white starting-point tiles are indestructible. Played with 1 joystick (pass it around ) Note: This one was developed using Kate text editor under Linux, and linux2tbasicxl, a little PHP script I made that, together with atari800 emulator and TurboBASIC XL itself, converts plain ASCII (with control and escape sequences like {clear} and "an inverse heart: `{heart}`") into ATASCII and 'ENTER's it as a BASIC listing. My dev process was: type code into Kate editor File->Save In a terminal, run "make run" Atari800 fires up, and a few moments later I'm running the game under TBXL :-) Because of this, I, too, have taken advantage of a few lines that are > 120 characters. Without being able to "cheat" like that, the graphics would have been much simpler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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