sh3-rg Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I have one last opinion to leave here; this forum has turned into a "Nazi-like" hierarchy were if your opinion is in the minority, it is immediately and radically shot down and you are personally attacked for having it. I believe in freedom of thought, opinion and mutual respect, but it apparently no longer exists here. I've better places to go and share my thoughts, so, so long. How bizarre. It didn't look that way from the sidelines, tbh, it looked like you had a bit of an over-reaction to a difference of opinion, but nothing more than that. As for the "Nazis" stuff, it's really difficult to see where you are coming from. I've seen old posts from Jaguar forums where if someone dared have an opinion that was in any way anti-Jaguar or anti-AnyParticularGame they'd be shot to the moon... nobody wants a forum full of "JAGUAR RULES" denial and circle-jerks, do they? To be fair to 108 and anyone else whose opinion was closer to his than yours, I don't see any personal attacks in this thread until your post #43... and all that you proclaim regarding people with radical reactions to posts was more encapsulated in your post than any of his. The way you both resorted to "YOU SUCK" "NO, YOU SUCK" (with or without smilies) was exactly the opposite to what anyone wants to read here, but I think most people are not so naive as to think it never happens - the more forums you visit, the more of that kind of stuff you see. Both your and 108's previous posts where you outlined your reasonings for your thoughts on the game were informative and respectful. I guess it's a matter of what you do when things go bad. You either hold your hands up and say you had a bad day, get over it and everyone forgets about it, or you emo-rage-quit and seek solace in a bubble of pure-hearted believers who never say a bad word about anything Jaguar (unless maybe it was created in this Millennium, in which case, "IT SUCKS!). "JAGUAR RULES!" 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2956115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggn Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2956118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 As for the "Nazis" stuff, it's really difficult to see where you are coming from. I've seen old posts from Jaguar forums where if someone dared have an opinion that was in any way anti-Jaguar or anti-AnyParticularGame they'd be shot to the moon... nobody wants a forum full of "JAGUAR RULES" denial and circle-jerks, do they?"JAGUAR RULES! I guess it's a matter of what you do when things go bad. You either hold your hands up and say you had a bad day, get over it and everyone forgets about it, or you emo-rage-quit and seek solace in a bubble of pure-hearted believers who never say a bad word about anything Jaguar (unless maybe it was created in this Millennium, in which case, "IT SUCKS!)."JAGUAR RULES!" Wow! Right on point. Not specifically in Gunstar's direction though (imo), as Gunstar was merely miffed that 108 Stars couldn't appreciate that Gunstar (and others like Gunstar, so it would appear!), happen to hold Fight For Life in high regard, even to the point where he would RATHER play FFL > VF and cites it 'up there' as one of his best fighters amongst SS1, UV & DOA etc. The breakdown occurred when 108 (perhaps, not in the best way) tried to argue objective opinions against the subjective. Whilst I AGREE with the sentiments 108 was trying to put forward, he didn't make the most respectful attempt at approaching that discussion point (I.e. "you are clueless" etc). This could all more easily be overlooked via the whole internet notions known as 'This is the internet... you will need to grow a thicker skin'... but some PPL don't have thick skins. Thick skins don't involve OTT breakdowns and telling others (in a serious tone) to "FO". I digress! Like I said, I agree with what 108 failed to convey respectfully: Gunstar is entitled to like FFL all he likes. As is anyone. If you extract plenty of enjoyment from that game, then that's excellent. I wouldn't criticise anyone for doing so, as I'm sure I play plenty of games individuals generally don't have a taste for, that I love. However, the breakdown here occurs when sight of objectivity is lost and an individual fails to see things from an objective stand point and simply let their feelings, emotions and subjectivity override what should be obvious. As 108 said, there is 'no talking around it'. And, I have greed with that standpoint throughout I'm afraid. Objectively speaking, FFL is a 'prime example' of a terrible 3D fighting game. Whether I (or anyone else) likes the game or not, whether I (or anyone else) feels it has some sort of merit or originality, does not change what should be an obvious, conclusive fact - visible and, more importantly, derived via interactivity itself: FFL is a poor 3D fighter. How is this standpoint arrived at? By cross referencing it against what existed at that time, what else existed later that generation (3DO, Saturn & PS1 etc) and by how well it has aged vs it's contemporaries, even today. And it still has to be said, Toshinden & VF (console) WERE a better game than it TWO YEARS PRIOR (jn 93/94) and by the time this game rolled out, we were already enjoying Soul Edge, Tekken 2, Virtua Fighter 2 & DOA (to name a few) whilst the likes of Tekken and Fighting Vipers had already arrived and eclipsed the likes of Toshinden & VF (console) in 95! Unfortunately, as 108 Stars was trying to say originally (whilst coming across as insulting in the process!) Fight For Life really IS one the T H E, if not possibly T H E worst console 3D fighter ever commercially released. Just because a small handful of Jag fans stand up and say 'actually, I think it's pretty good' doesn't change what is a fact. Again, as 108 tried insinuate, there is nothing wrong with liking and enjoying FFL. But when an individual tries to take those feelings and turn them into objective opinions, whereby they actually feel that FFL is ACTUALLY a good fighting game, in serious discussion - that's when PPL will most likely call any individuals general objectivity and their opinions into disrepute. Unfortunately, FFL really is an open and closed chapter that was black and white throughout... 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2956211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Fight For Life really IS one the T H E, if not possibly T H E worst console 3D fighter ever commercially released. Just because a small handful of Jag fans stand up and say 'actually, I think it's pretty good' doesn't change what is a fact. Again, as 108 tried insinuate, there is nothing wrong with liking and enjoying FFL. But when an individual tries to take those feelings and turn them into objective opinions, whereby they actually feel that FFL is ACTUALLY a good fighting game, in serious discussion - that's when PPL will most likely call any individuals general objectivity and their opinions into disrepute. Bingo. Nothing wrong with loving (or even just deriving some small enjoyment) from a truly shit game. That doesn't change the fact that it still is a truly shit game though... 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2956245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinSEGA Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I know people who liked Toxic Avenger but objectively agreed that it's a terribad movie. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2956253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfman Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) Let's be honest, if we like the jaguar it's no strange surprise some jag fans like FFL. I quite enjoy it for what it is. There's not exactly a great choice of fighting games - kasami - dragon - vortek - DD5 - FFL. 99% of the world thought the jaguar was shit. The sales and fall of the jag proved that. I love the Jag, my friends point and laugh at the 64 bit powerhouse. But everyone is entitled to an opinion. Hey ho. Edited March 25, 2014 by Gulfman Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2956259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto1980 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 sad news guys: just read the FFL soucecode and it looks like ONLY Pog got a differend ending :-(((( im so sad now :-((((((( all other fighters are doomed to stay in the specterzone :-(((( God rest their souls 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2956327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Stephen is not a programmer: he is a WIZARD of great power! In order to keep Stella cycle exact he must feed it orphans of size and stature dictated by the voice inside his Atari XL. I wish I was the coder of Stella:) Wrong guy (though my last initial is also A). 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2956373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 If anyone is interested in more of the source code to FFL such as the includes etc I can upload those to this thread. Let me know. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2956669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willard Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) for anyone who actually read the interview with bertrand, here's where atari tells the media that ffl was prematurely reviewed (after they sent in a beta copy while the game was still in development). probably would've released it as-is to save money had the game been reviewed well anyway was just thinking of FX fighter by argonaut, it's really too bad that didn't come out on the jaguar. I think it would've been great for the system and it could've been released before FFL. but around that time argonaut was cutting edge and quite well connected, i don't think atari would've put up the kind of money necessary to make it happen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ32FFhlEkI Edited March 26, 2014 by Willard Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2956690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 If anyone is interested in more of the source code to FFL such as the includes etc I can upload those to this thread. Let me know. I would be interested. I also wonder how you would create new characters under that engine? Or add different endings? I've always thought it would be fun to hack the game so that instead of regular fighters you would have Mascots from other Jaguar games (Zool, Bubsy, Rayman, Bently Bear) duking it out. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2961306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
swapd0 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 If anyone is interested in more of the source code to FFL such as the includes etc I can upload those to this thread. Let me know. Why don't you upload it to dropbox and put a link? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2961393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
swapd0 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I've been looking to the source code and there are a LOT of GPU code without comments, also the polygon drawing routines are IMHO a bit long. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2961413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Why don't you upload it to dropbox and put a link? Yeah I can do that. I'll have it up by the end of this weekend. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2961428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I think it was John Matheison (I'm probably spelling that wrong) who said he thought the FFL programmer wasn't very good. I've been looking to the source code and there are a LOT of GPU code without comments, also the polygon drawing routines are IMHO a bit long. IMO what would be INCREDIBLY INTERESTING is if someone took this or some other source code like it and started a discussion in the programming section about it. Breaking it down. Like why you think his routines are too long. What do you think should be done different etc. Perhaps there will be other areas where you can go aha! I can use that! 'I don't like what he did here but over here I think he did a great job and I can use it' etc. There are other source codes with 3D stuff. The HoverStrike engine is out there. I can see about posting that in the drop box too. A lot of GPU assembly work already done just waiting to be used. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2961433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Here you guys go. https://www.dropbox.com/s/5xkun5pj6ey6i7q/Fight%20For%20Life.zip 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2961502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
swapd0 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 It looks that the polygon routine works with quads instead of triangles or a generic N-convex polygon routine. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2962719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 a generic N-convex polygon routine. Shit! Not the generic N-convex polygon routine?? I'll activate the Bat-Signal... 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2962802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I'll activate the Bat-Signal... No worries, man, I got it for you. 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2962808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 It looks that the polygon routine works with quads instead of triangles or a generic N-convex polygon routine.Can't comment on the source, but looking at the models for the fighters, they do seem to be made of rectangles. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-2962831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ataritiger Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 On 4/2/2014 at 7:35 PM, JagChris said: Here you guys go. https://www.dropbox.com/s/5xkun5pj6ey6i7q/Fight%20For%20Life.zip Cool, but does anybody have the programmer final rom dump years after 1996 FFL ? Also great screenshot article above with quote Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-4662922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ataritiger Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 On 3/25/2014 at 10:44 PM, Willard said: for anyone who actually read the interview with bertrand, here's where atari tells the media that ffl was prematurely reviewed (after they sent in a beta copy while the game was still in development). probably would've released it as-is to save money had the game been reviewed well anyway was just thinking of FX fighter by argonaut, it's really too bad that didn't come out on the jaguar. I think it would've been great for the system and it could've been released before FFL. but around that time argonaut was cutting edge and quite well connected, i don't think atari would've put up the kind of money necessary to make it happen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ32FFhlEkI Great screenshot thanks. Does anybody have the programmer final rom dump years after 1996 FFL . Edit : sorry for double post, posting from cell phone. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-4662924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ataritiger Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 On 4/2/2014 at 1:31 PM, doctorclu said: I would be interested. I also wonder how you would create new characters under that engine? Or add different endings? I've always thought it would be fun to hack the game so that instead of regular fighters you would have Mascots from other Jaguar games (Zool, Bubsy, Rayman, Bently Bear) duking it out. Like a jaguars fighters mega mix 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-4662933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 (edited) There is no 1996 version. He turned in the game Dec 1995 by his own words and the timestamps on the latest source files corroborate that. Edited October 26, 2020 by JagChris 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-4662969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripled79 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 ooooh yeah! oooooh yeah! Fight for life! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/4/#findComment-4663628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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