Help: "High Rise" (1986)(Compute!"

[ballyalley]

The Apple version is also a hex dump in the magazine. Worst case, the binary version could be recreated if the text in the mag can be OCR'd successfully

 

Has anyone on this forum had much luck with OCR ML listings? I've tried it before, and it required a LOT of clean-up. Enough so that I realized that actually retyping the program would take about the same amount of time. Also, since MLX checks your typing using a checksum, it catches MANY errors that even a cleaned-up OCR listing could let slip through very easily.

 

 

or someone is motivated to go old school and type it in like everyone used to do.

 

Correct. However, I'm confident that an Apple fan with some searching could find it. As for me, someone who has only tried Apple II emulation in passing, I'd have little luck with finding it myself.

[ballyalley]

Because it was a real memory-hog to type in manually.

 

I'm not sure which posting is being replied to here. Are you suggesting that 48K was required because of the overhead of MLX, or that only RUNNING the program requires less memory. If it's the overhead, then this could be tested easily enough in an emulator. If the program required certain memory locations to be used (say for a specific screen setup), than without the RAM it required (regardless of program size), the program would not run properly. A short loop could be written in just a few lines of code that would fill up 48K of RAM. The program may only require a few bytes of storage, yet the program still would require 48K to run properly. I'd like to here from an Atari programmer on this question

 

 

First you had to clear your plate because the data had to be done in one sitting

 

Typing all the code at one time is not required of the Automatic Proofreader for BASIC programs or with MLX for ML listings. You could SAVE programs anywhere you wanted and then continue anytime just by loading your data up again. I'm not sure if other checksum programs in other magazines allowed you to save and then start again later, but I'd be truly shocked if the user couldn't do this. Does anyone have experience with the Antic or ANALOG checksum programs? How about other magazines or books?

 

 

then enter the data entry verifier/saver BASIC stuff

 

Checksum programs like the Automatic Proofreader or MLX did have to entered once, but then it could be used with all the programs in future issues. That is, until the checksum programmer was updated, which I think only happened once with Proofreader and MLX.

 

If you mean entering the checksum data itself, then it is required for MLX, but not the Proofreader. MLX takes the checksum at the end of a line and then won't let you continue to the next line of code until you fix the error on the line if the checksum doesn't match (it would also make a really annoying buzz sound). The Proofreader from Compute! generates the checksum at the top of the screen after you press enter (or Return) when a line is finished being typed. The user then manually verifies that the generated checksum matches against the magazine listing checksum in the left column. If the checksum doesn't match then it is up to the user to stop and fix the error. On the C64 the checksum was at the end of the line after a REM statement (that REM and checksum number didn't have to be typed, but some people did it anyway).

 

 

[Then you'll] lose your eyeballs completely entering all those digits for the actual program and extra stuff for checksums.

 

This wasn't so much a problem with Compute! publications (those listings were pretty-much easy to read). Ahoy! (for the C64) also did a really good job. Some of the other magazines REALLY did a poor job at reproducing listings. Some people's only experience with type-in listing is from looking at scans of books or magazines. Those scans are much poorer than the original magazine listings. Some scans make it impossible to reproduce the listed programs at all.

 

 

And all that [typing] before you found out if the game was any fun.

 

Yes, that is the hard-to-believe part. Some games, even after all that, just were not fun. At all. Many of us here typed programs in and used and played them only to experience that final let-down. The difference that many people seem to forget (or overlook?) is that after spending long hours typing in code we seemed to be more willing to give a game a fair shake. Also, we didn't have access to the amount of software that we do now. So, even though I had commercial software back in the eighties for my C64 (I didn't own an Atari 8-bit then), I understood that a type-in game was in a completely different realm then one I got at a store.

 

Also, even though I didn't understand BASIC well, I did like to fuss around with the BASIC programs and changed things here and there, and that was fun in itself. As for the ML listing, there wasn't much that most people could do with them except type them in and hope that they worked. At least ANALOG seeed to always (or almost always?) publish the source code with a program. Even that only helped ML programmers, and there seemed precious few of them.

[Nukey Shay]

Executing the program itself is not a problem on a 16k machine...but the screen and P/M data lies outside of it's ram address range. Should still work on an Atari800 fitted with 24k or 32k, tho...but I'm too lazy to dig out my original stuff (I'm looking at Atari800Win's results).

 

BTW the procedure I mentioned above will work to correct the disk file. After setting up MEM.SAV on the disk to avoid any DOS corruption, I (L)oaded the file from DOS, and then saved it again including the init address along with the start and end addresses (filename.ext,3000,3947,3000). It's written as HI.OBJ here:

Atari Proofreader and MLX (1986)(Compute)(Atari 800).atr

[ballyalley]

[Here's a screenshot of the Atari version:]

compute_hirise.png

 

I played the C64 version of "High Rise" using the VICE emulator today. I like that version better than the Atari 8-bit version of the game. Here's a screenshot of the C64 version of the game:

 

 

If you're interested in playing the original C64 version (the Apple II and Atari versions of "High Rise are conversions), then here is "High Rise" on tape:

 

High Rise (1986 Feb)(Charles McGuyer and Kevin Mykytyn)(Compute!)(C64).zip

 

Here are some of the advantages of the C64 version of "High Rise:"

1. The sprites are more colorful, larger and better defined.
2. The game's music and sound effects are quite a bit better. I like that the music (as repetitive as it is) has more bass. I especially like the sound effect of the bird swooping down at you.
3. The elevators have not left me stranded on a level. When stranded I'm killed by the robot because there was no way off a level. This has happened to me countless times on the Atari.
4. The elevators move faster, giving you more chances to move up or down between levels. Even moving up a level or two is better than getting pushed over the edge by the robot!
5. Finally, I've actually managed to get to the bottom of the building on the C64. I've never got to level two on the Atari. Not yet, anyway.

I'm going to try to set myself up with an Apple II emulator this week so that I can see that version of the game too. Any Apple emulator recommendations?

[+David_P]

If you "Save as a boot disk" the disk will show as blank because it isn't being stored as a file. Rather, there's a bootloader put in the first few sectors, and then the program. The VTOC isn't updated, so DOS would still see an empty disk.

[The Usotsuki]

I'm going to try to set myself up with an Apple II emulator this week so that I can see that version of the game too. Any Apple emulator recommendations?

Well, AppleWin if you use Windows...

[Nukey Shay]

There appears to be a scoring bug in the Atari version anyway - the thousands digit goes from "9" to ":" and then continues through the rest of the character set and rolls over to "P" and repeats...you can never reach 10k.

[ballyalley]

There appears to be a scoring bug in the Atari version anyway - the thousands digit goes from "9" to ":" and then continues through the rest of the character set and rolls over to "P" and repeats...you can never reach 10k.

 

I wonder if that is a bug in the game itself, or just the version that appeared on disk? I'm not going to compare it to the Compute! listing, that's for sure.

 

After playing the C64 version, I'm convinced that the Atari conversion was done quickly just to get an Atari program into the magazine. That's too bad about the scoring bug, but what's worse is that the original spirit of the C64 "High Rise" seems to have been lost somewhere in the Atari conversion too. No amount of comparison with the Compute! listing will find that anyplace.

[ballyalley]

If you "Save as a boot disk" the disk will show as blank because it isn't being stored as a file. Rather, there's a bootloader put in the first few sectors, and then the program. The VTOC isn't updated, so DOS would still see an empty disk.

 

Thanks for explaining this to me. This "blank disk" mystery had me scratching my head.

 

Two Sector Editor/Disk Editor Questions:

1. What is considered the best disk editor for the Atari (that runs on the Atari)? I'd like it to run on a real NTSC Atari 130XE. However, if there is a PAL disk editor that is better, then emulation would work fine too.
2. Do any GUI Atari ATR disk editors exist for Windows?

This is all very intriguing to me!

[Xuel]

I agree that the Atari version of High Rise is a little weak. I like Elevator Repairman better as a game sort of in this genre but that may just be nostalgia talking.

[ballyalley]

Oh my, looks like I had [High Rise] all along. o.o [...] Well, AppleWin [for an Apple II emulator] if you use Windows...

 

 

Thanks for finding the Apple II version of "High Rise" and then pointing out a link to the game. Also, thanks for pointing me in the right direction for an Apple II emulator. I had downloaded AppleWin back in 2011 but never really used it except to load BASIC up and play around with that.

 

Now, all geared up and ready to go, I fired up the Apple II emulator... and had no idea what to do to load the game. After some fussing around figuring out that I needed some DOS (which makes sense), I then loaded the game up using the (new to me) BRUN command. I was greeted by this underwhelming screen:

 

 

I couldn't figure-out how to get the game to support my joystick, so I just used the Numpad Cursor keys. Then I couldn't figure-out how to stop moving my little man along the level! When I moved right, I just kept going in that direction until I turned around. I had to consult the "Compute!" magazine article for the game to figure-out how to stop. I simply had to press the space bar. This isn't required in the other two versions of the game. It makes for awkward gameplay, but probably only because I got used to the C64 and Atari version.

 

The Apple version of "High Rise" doesn't have an enemy bird at all. This leaves the only baddie as the roaming robot. This would make the game much easier, but to get onto the elevators in this version takes more care to do. Before I managed that I was thrown over the edge by the robot to an exhilarating "Bleep!" noise. I think it might have been the "Bell" sound effect that I recall from Apple BASIC.

 

The Apple version of "High Rise" is certainly a letdown to me. There is no music. There are no sound effects (except the brief "Bleep!" when your little guy is killed). There's no bird. Having already played the well-down C64 version, I knew I could do better. Even the Atari version, with it's contrived lack of elevator movement, seems better than this not-enough-for-a-game-sort-of-game conversion of "High Rise."

 

I don't have much Apple II experience except from Jr. High and High school. I had only a very few friends that had the machine. The games that I played in those days seemed second-rate to the C64 versions of games that I had. Then again, the Apple II did seem privy to many games that the C64 didn't have access to at all.

 

I'd be interested in hearing what other people think of the three versions of "High Rise," in particular the Atari 8-bit version of the game (being that this is the Atari 8-Bit forum and all!).

 

No one did chime in to say that they remember this game from "back in the day." Did anyone play "High Rise" in the mid-eighties?

[Roydea6]

They all suck-----Stupid Magazine NOOB. games.

 

Except for this one Antic author that did some good games. this is one of them -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLtt1Yl9x7I

and He also did a few more that were ok..

 

The Casten Game Disk.atr

Edited March 25, 2014 by rdea6

[ballyalley]

one Antic author [J.D. Casten] did some good games. [Escape From Epsilon] is one of them

 

I've never played "Escape from Epsilon." The video of the game makes it pretty good. The game's name rings a bell (probably from back in the 1990's when I used to have most of the actual ANALOG and Antic magazines). J.D. Casten actually has his own website dedicated to his art. There is a small part of the site dedicated to his Atari games:

 

http://www.jdcasten.info/8-bit-atari.html

 

Casten makes an amusing comment about the main character in "Escape from Epsilon. He says, "Due to miscommunication, Antic illustrated Slyvester Biffdrop as a human, when I always considered him a duck." Which is funny, as looking at the game, the character doesn't look like a little man at all. Once you KNOW he's a duck that's exactly what he looks like.

 

Here is a link to all the games that Atarimania has listed by J.D. Casten:

 

http://www.atarimania.com/list_games_atari-400-800-xl-xe-casten-j-d_team_218_8_G.html

 

It appears that nearly all of these games were published in "Antic" magazine. He seems to have been a rather prolific programmer.

 

Kevin Mykytyn (Compute!'s editorial programmer-- I'm not even sure what that title means) is the man that ported "High Rise" to the Atari. He has many games to his credit on AtariMania as well:

 

http://www.atarimania.com/list_games_atari-400-800-xl-xe-mykytyn-kevin_team_956_8_G.html

 

I'm going to play some more of the Atari "High Rise" and see where I can get with it.

[Nukey Shay]

@ballyalley

Finally got around to booting up the one I typed in BITD, and it had the same glitch. So the error was in the published program and not just their disk.

[bbking67]

There are lots of good magazine games... sometimes graphically simple, but frequently even commercial quality. My personal favourite is a Rip-Off clone called Bacterion that I think was in Analog. But these may not have all been type-ins either...

 

The type in games mostly haven't aged well... at the time they were fun. I remember typing in some games before I got a cassette recorder and didn't want to turn off my computer!

[ballyalley]

[i booted] up the one I typed in BITD, and it had the same glitch. So the error was in the published program and not just their disk.

 

Thanks for confirming that. I wonder if there was a fix for it published. Probably not. There were plenty of type-in games that had issues but that were still "done." It wasn't like those games went through much play-testing.

[ballyalley]

My personal favourite is a Rip-Off clone called Bacterion that I think was in Analog. But these may not have all been type-ins either...

 

I remember "Bacterion" from when I was going through 1MB disc images from an online site in the 1990's. I never did get to play it with another player-- which is how it seems it would shine. I looked up the game to see when it was published, and I found it in "ANALOG Computing's" issue 20 (July 1984) starting on page 35. Check out the first two sentences from the background of the game:

 

"The year is 2284. The "Robotron Incident" of 2084 has long been forgotten, and the field of genetic engineering has led to the fabrication of synthetic humans."

 

Hmmm... I wonder just what that "incident" could be referring to?! I wonder if this game gets has a chance at being the first unofficial sequel to Robotron?

 

I made a picture of page 35 of the ANALOG magazine from a pdf that I have. Read the background and witness the incredible artwork for this game!

 

 

Isn't that artwork just awesome!

 

 

I remember typing in some games before I got a cassette recorder and didn't want to turn off my computer!

 

I hope we're talking about 10 line BASIC programs! I only did this once, and this was in 1985/86 when I got my second Commodore computer: A C128. I typed in some BASIC programs from the Compute's Gazette that showed just how easy it was to use the new BASIC 7.0. I was staying with my Dad over Christmas break (or summer?) and my disk drive was at home. I had no way to save-- but that didn't hold me back from playing with BASIC and showing off my new computer! I couldn't leave the computer on and so I had to type in the various (short) BASIC programs several times over. I loved doing it though!

[devwebcl]

 

I remember "Bacterion" from when I was going through 1MB disc images from an online site in the 1990's. I never did get to play it with another player-- which is how it seems it would shine. I looked up the game to see when it was published, and I found it in "ANALOG Computing's" issue 20 (July 1984) starting on page 35. Check out the first two sentences from the background of the game:

 

"The year is 2284. The "Robotron Incident" of 2084 has long been forgotten, and the field of genetic engineering has led to the fabrication of synthetic humans."

 

Hmmm... I wonder just what that "incident" could be referring to?! I wonder if this game gets has a chance at being the first unofficial sequel to Robotron?

 

I made a picture of page 35 of the ANALOG magazine from a pdf that I have. Read the background and witness the incredible artwork for this game!

 

http://manillismo.blogspot.com/2012/09/bacterion-plague-of-2369.html

http://analog.klanky.com/funstuff.htm#FireBug

 

(FUN FACT: The full title of Bacterion is "Bacterion – The Plague of 2369". 2369 was the street address of the house where I grew up in Springfield, MO