BassGuitari Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I think one's idea of what's a 'bad' vs 'great' game for the 2600 -- and a lot of other systems, but it seems even more true for the 2600 due to the limitations of the system and the need for a active imagination -- has a lot to do with the following: 1) Did you play the game BITD or pick it up years later? 2) Were you forced to play this game again and again due to not having anything else, or did you have a ton of games to pick from? 3) Do you like the type of game that it is, or is that a genre that you don't enjoy that much? Perhaps, but maybe not always like one might expect. I didn't play a 2600 until 2000, when I was 15 and already had a Playstation, Genesis and/or SNES (my friend and I kept swapping them), NES, Game Boy, Game Gear, and the family PC. I can't say nostalgia's a factor for these games since they were really before my time (except my Odyssey 2, which I first played at a friend's house ~1997...lots of nostalgia there) and I wasn't hurting for options. I "discovered" Star Ship (since we seem to be on this example) at a game shop a few years later and was immediately hooked by both the game(s) and the sheer retroness of it. Lots of good times followed. ...seems that games like Star Ship has deep gameplay... I don't know if I'd call it "deep" exactly, but there's more to it than meets the eye. Same with games like Air-Sea Battle and Street Racer, they have their nuances. The variety of the games helps, too. I'm a little surprised to see so much love for Star Ship, actually. There was a time not so long ago when Star Ship was a regular nominee for Worst 2600 Game, and people thought I was weird for liking it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Anyone know why Star Ship got pulled from Atari's library early on? It couldn't be low sales as there were tons of dud games that stayed around IIRC Star Ship disappeared from catalogs sometime in 1980, but as to the "why," I have no idea. It may (or may not) be worth noting that Miniature Golf was also cut around the same time. The release of Space Invaders may not be insignificant in the decision to retire Star Ship, as well. We may never definitively know why, but the only reasons a business makes a move like that come down to...well...business. For one reason or another, these games must not have been generating enough revenue or contributing to Atari's business strategies. Or, Atari didn't expect them to in either the near or long-term future. Of course, that raises the question, "why bring it back?"...(but not Miniature Golf?....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbd30 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 good choice, maybe Fire Fighter shouldn't be on that list, good game. Some of those on the list were firsts for prgrammers, like 3D Tic Tac Toe and Space Jockey, they got better with time "Fire Fighter" might not be one of the ten worst, but it sure isn't very good. It's got some nice graphics for a 2600 game. The box art promises blazing excitement. But there is no challenge, no sense of danger as there should be in a fire fighting game. And this is on a console that has loads of fast paced, challenging arcade type games. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killersquirel Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 When did Atari bring Starship back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfAmongWolves Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I liked Star Ship on so many levels it’s just crazy. Star Ship was the first time I felt I was flying through deep space fighting battles to save the Earth. It was the first first-person out-of-the-cockpit view for home systems if I recall correctly. It also exhibited a good number of firsts in the programming department, none of which I can authoritatively comment on since I am not a VCS programmer by any stretch of the imagination. But stretch the imagination with Star Ship we did. Yessir! Star Ship brings back lots of memories. I remember setting it up inside the family wagon and putting blankets over the windows. My VCS rigged to a 9” B/W JC Penny television provided the visuals for my makeshift deep-space craft. We seemingly had all the amenities of the Starship Enterprise. Catered food from mom & dad, a bathroom right outside, an entertainment system. Just too cool for school! On a more personal note, I was still innocent and didn’t know a damned thing on how cartridges and the VCS really worked. I knew there were black things called integrated circuits and stuff. But that was about it. And I was happy. I would learn when I grew up. The first sets of games where you simply had to blow up the oncoming ships was considered training. While fun in and of itself, the game taught us to pull up (push down on the joystick) just like a real aircraft! It took time for a 5 year old to get used to that idea, but it quickly became natural. And when you played the 2-player variants you really learned about spatial orientation. The second set of games where you have to speed through space and avoid the asteroids was the precursor to having to guide your ship in hyperspace in Star Raiders. While there was nothing to blow up, it sure made use of your maneuvering skills - that’s for sure. The last set of games where you had to land on the moon was a load of fun too. We added excitement to it by letting the winner play Lunar Lander on my programmable calculator. We all know graphics were simplistic, much like everything else of the era. But the sound effects were spot on. They were just like the deep space scenes in some sci-fi films, eerie, clean, seemingly intermittent. And when we were done with our hardcore simming, we’d read astronomy books and study Rand McNally’s Map of the Moon. All the while having Star Ship running in the background, for it added a sense of being in mission control. The tie-in factor was high with Star Ship. It was the cornerstone where many of our space adventures congregated. Later on we'd incorporate Space War, Asteroids, Missile Command, and others. Gameplay flowing from one cartridge to next - much like how you have different levels in a modern-day FPS. Building our stories and carrying out orders. We fabricated epic galactic tales to rival even Star Wars. And some of these games were even part of a training regimen you had to complete if you were to join our makeshift "Space Program". If you were really elite and the best of the best with these games you could earn points that would score time on Star Raiders. Just like real astronauts on a moon mission, we had many tasks to perform. Launch was as different from trans-lunar-injection, as actually landing on the moon was as different from splashdown on Earth. Each phase of our space program challenge required you to complete various tasks scattered over many different cartridges and their game variations. Furthermore, some of us were good at one task but sucked at another and we formed teams and each of built a reputation for being an expert in some aspect. And that is how we linked games together, for any one single game just begged for its background storyline to be expanded and become part of something more than itself. And it all started with Star Ship. People that criticize early games like Star Ship are pretty much clueless in knowing how to have fun with the very first classics. But ignorance can be forgiven and alleviated if a genuine effort is put forth to learn and see the light. Star Ship - one of the best early immersive games ever made for any system at the time. Do yourself a favor and play it today! Wow. Atari should have hired you as marketing director back in the day. I've never played Starship before. Now I have the uncontrollable urge to go on Ebay and spend any amount of money on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian R. Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Some of the things said in favor of Star Ship, I could say about Star Raiders. That game made me feel I was really piloting a vessel in space. There were times I'd play the game and just cruise around. I also didn't know much about how the VCS worked or what was inside. I remember there was a time I thought the "game info" was sent to the system by the black tabs on the cart - you know, the tabs that serve to open the dust door on the 2600's end? I also remember thinking there'd be all this amazing, cool stuff jammed inside the thing, so you can imagine how let down I was when I finally opened one up and saw how little was in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 When did Atari bring Starship back? Had to be at least 1982 since the "picture" label says "Atari 2600" on it, and 1982 is the year Atari changed the name of "Video Computer System" to "2600." Doesn't help that the game never made a catalog appearance after it was reissued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorussell Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 When did Atari bring Starship back? After they dropped the "Jefferson" from their name. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 (edited) Incidentally it was Star Ship where I first got the idea and formulated plans and instructions on how to play two-player Star Raiders. One player is the pilot and the other the systems manager (keyboard). In many respects, the keyboard operator had more fun because he/she would be responsible for strategy, energy management, and other aspects of ship - whereas the pilot just flew around blowing stuff up. But the pilot could set strategy too. It was a shared workload if you wanted it that way. The pilot could ask for an energy-conserving profile, or all out battle configuration. And the navigator could manage the shields, pick targets, and toggle the sighting reticle appropriately. I also wired in a few switches in parallel with keys from the keyboard and made my own Star Raiders ops panel. This was from a time when RadioShack sold billions of styles of toggle switches and controls and things like that. It goes to show you a game need not be spectacular in all aspects in order to inspire you and become memorable. Edited April 6, 2014 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidLikesIntellivision Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 When I was a kid under 10, I put 2 activision games among the worst of all! Decathlon: it brake many joysticks I decided to brake the damn game! No more broken joysticks, please. Enduro: it was fun to play Atari with my father until Enduro. I finished it fast and he kept playing forever! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cvga Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Enduro: it was fun to play Atari with my father until Enduro. I finished it fast and he kept playing forever! So he was better at it? I didn't think this was a game you could finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidLikesIntellivision Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 So he was better at it? I didn't think this was a game you could finish. lol, 'I finished' in the sense the game is over. It's my poor English again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorussell Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I like the list. I would hope that Laser Blast at least was thought about for that list, or might have made it into the bottom 25 or so. There's a Custer's Revenge remake that's hilariously stupid. This guy has a prostate the size of Texas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I would hope that Laser Blast at least was thought about for that list... I almost had it at #10 for mine. But Laser Blast, lame though it is, doesn't get to the level of putridity the other ten games do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzillajoe Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Laser Blast is a "zen" game. You have to find your happy place when you play it and submit to the repetition. That explosion sound is like a mantra. I have a soft spot for it since it was my first Activision game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+thegoldenband Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Rom Hunter has always made a pretty good case for putting Bi! Bi! at #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 These lists of 10 worst whatevers seem to be made to be disputed. At some point, will we see the List of 10 worst 10 worst lists? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian R. Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 My current thought is, PacMan gets crapped on all the time. But in the day, I played the heck out of that cart and loved it. It was actually Donkey Kong that did in the 2600 for me. When I got a hold of what that looked like on the Colecovision, the Atari was out and Coleco came in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 My parents made such a big stink about Laser Blast, how cool it was and that it wasn't made by Atari and all that. When I got it home I spent all goddamned evening trying to like the game. They built the game up in my head so much that (now I can see) there was never any hope of it living up to my imaginary standards. I never played it again till I got into emulation many many years later. And even now it sucks ass. Zen or Zone I don't get it. This is not a favorite of mine in any way, shape, or form. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Ugh. Laser Blast is zen because you can certainly lull yourself into an out of body experience with the mind numbing repetition and lack of challenge. It takes too damn long to max the score. It's still more playable than anything from Mythicon. Also, Stan, you want to identify a stinker from the PB library, why not go after Strawberry Shortcake? That game is a loser on every single level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mangia-Boy Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Mr.Do!'s Castle definitely belongs to that list. I always worried about this bad translation of an excellent arcade title for the Atari 2600, too. Even if you know, what a phantastic job was done in the conversion for the Colecovision. But don't forget Walker aka Schussel, der Polizistenschreck! It's even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+thegoldenband Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 But don't forget Walker aka Schussel, der Polizistenschreck! It's even worse. Oh, man, that game is amazing. It's like the East German video game counterpart to "Worker and Parasite" from The Simpsons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzillajoe Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Is there more to Walker (Clown Down Town) than jumping over a few cops before it seems to start all over again. What the hell is the scoring system? First number goes up, first number goes down. Second "score" maxes at 999 pretty quickly. At least the backgrounds are nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHATETHEBEARS Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Some didn't get reprinted when Atari transitioned to the picture labels (Slot Machine for example), but Star Ship seems to have been pulled earlier than that. I may be wrong there, but it seems too hard to find compared to all the other 'text label only' games. For me there were just certain games that I knew existed (thanks to the catalogs) but could never be found anywhere. I never saw any of the keypad games. Flag Capture was never sold any place I ever saw. There were several others as well. I remember because I was always partial to the Atari games, and was resistant to getting anything sold by a rival company. Then I got Seaquest for my birthday. And once the seal was broke, I got anything and everything. I couldn't even find relatively common games like Air Sea Battle, Canyon Bomber, Video Chess, Blackjack, Dodge 'Em and Indy 500. I think you're right about Slot Machine and Star Ship - as well as Miniature Golf. The only reason I knew these games existed is because I would occasionally find a game that had been sitting on a shelf for years, and had a really old catalog inside. The newer catalogs didn't list those ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceAtari Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Believe it or not, I like Firefly. Mostly, though, I agree with Stan. Here is mine: 10: Airlock 9: Name This Game 8: Brain Games 7: Burger Time 6: Canyon Bomber 5: Chuck Norris Superkicks 4: Demons to Diamonds 3: Double Dragon 2: Flag Capture 1: 3-D Tic- Tac- Toe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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