Salvo

[Jinks]

So die grind that chip out then the avox wont cut out anymore? This is a 100% fix?

[Nateo]

I just got this game for Christmas amd finally got to sit down a have a session with it, so I will join the chorus and sing the praises of this awesome game. It's a freaking classic. I couldn't put the controller down.

[+save2600]

 

For anyone who has experienced or is experiencing issues with the AtariVox malfunctioning with T:ME Salvo, Dungeon Stalker, or any other Vox supported game whether 2600 or 7800, please see this post. It is reiterated below for convenience:

 

 

TL;DR - To fix the issue, desolder the PIC chip highlighted above, if there is no need/interest in the Vectrex support.

 

I love fixes like this, but naturally and of course - I have the original AtariVox.

 

Is there a fix for this board? I'm reading that other thread from 2016 now. Seems like the issue with a couple of these games might be more 7800 related than the actual AVox unit.

 

[Jinks]

Not 7800 related it is avox problem with the chip. 7800 shows more problems as has more speech going on from what I understand.

[+Trebor]

I love fixes like this, but naturally and of course - I have the original AtariVox.

 

Is there a fix for this board? I'm reading that other thread from 2016 now. Seems like the issue with a couple of these games might be more 7800 related than the actual AVox unit.

 

vox.jpg

 

That latter part of that thread contains recent information from 2600 users who experience the same issue under the 2600 with the WIP Wizard of Wor remake; it even happens under Stella when an AtariVox+ is utilized. That 2600 WoW remake, similar to the 7800 titles which also leverage the AtariVox, makes extensive use of speech.

 

The reason for some AtariVox+ users experiencing issues is summarized as follows:

 

"...the PIC Vss pin (gnd) connects to the ground through DIP switch number 3. Since that DIP switch is "off" in normal Atari 2600 mode, this leaves the PIC with a floating ground, essentially turning the PIC off. DIP switches 4 and 5 bypass the PIC, however the PIC is still attached to the circuit and in conjunction with the floating ground is causing unexpected behavior on the data lines..."

"In the current circuit layout, instead of disconnecting power, I recommend disconnecting the data pins. The issue is that the “disabled” PIC is still influencing the serial data, so the data lines (PIC pins 9, 11, 12 and 13) should be disconnected from the circuit. I have been looking at the schematic and don’t see an “easy” fix that keeps the Vectrex modes."

Are you experiencing an issue with the plain/original AtariVox unit? If so, AFAIK, that would be the first report of it, as all AtariVox (no plus) original units have worked flawlessly with all games and have not been affected. They are not Vectrex compatible and therefore lack the PIC that causes the problem experienced sometimes with AtariVox+ devices.

[+save2600]

Yes, experiencing the same issues with my original AVox as people with the AVox+ unit. But am using it with a 7800 console. This particular 7800 unit plays nice with all the problem 2600 games though.

 

I'll have to check Dungeon Stalker again as it's been a while since I last played, but I definitely experience garbled speech in Salvo, which is why I thought there might be a fix for my old board.

[+Trebor]

The particular unit posted, appears to have some oxidation occurring:

 

 

 

 

 

[RevEng]

Crossbow reproduced the issue before with a generic AtariVox driver, both in 7800 and 2600 mode. The 2600 mode was more resistant to triggering than 7800 mode, but it wasn't immune. No doubt this is at least part of the reason you're not seeing the issue in 2600 games. Another factor is that most 2600 games don't push the vox very hard. Have you tried the 2600 WoW remake?

 

So far we have exactly one AtariVox+ unit that's been cured of the issue (in 2600 mode) by having the PIC removed. We don't have any evidence if this is a universal cure for AtariVox+, let alone figure out why your original Vox has the issue. As you suggest, there may be two issues at play, both with different solutions. Or removing the PIC in the AtariVox+ just coincidentally nudged some factor over the line, but the same factor is worse in your unit.

 

I noticed that you have a SpeakGin chip, which is much earlier rev of the SpeakJet chip being used now. This might be another factor.

 

Unfortunately nobody experiencing the issue has had the skills to confirm the basics, like signal level, quality, etc.

 

Richard H is looking into it, but time will have to tell if he's even able capable of reproducing it.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I've a scope at the ready, just need to know what pins you want to see what readings from and what program etc you want me running to check it?

 

I did end up tacking the +5 Vdd back on the PIC. It would be really nice to find a way to make like a selector switch of sorts to completely enable or disable the PIC from the circuit besides just cutting it out and thus...killing Vectrex support in the process.

[RevEng]

Cool! You can use the 2600 test utility. The previous discussion on the scope has some sanity checking.

 

I'd also like to add a check of the speakjet_data(joy2_pin1), same as the linked instructions for checking the speakjet_ready. Lastly a simple level comparison of +5v vs the data-high and ready-high might be helpful too.

 

Since neither signal is clocked and this is an analog scope, I don't expect you will be able to see much detail on the signal transitions. That is what it is.

[RevEng]

I just got this game for Christmas and finally got to sit down a have a session with it, so I will join the chorus and sing the praises of this awesome game. It's a freaking classic. I couldn't put the controller down.

I somehow totally missed your comment. A belated thank-you for the kind words.

 

I'm thrilled that people are enjoying it.

[Kurt_Woloch]

I stumbled on this game as well in the last weeks (in a Youtube video with Atari 7800 homebrews) and I have to say I like it very much since I already liked to play Crossfire back in the day on the C-64 and TI-99. SInce the graphics are rather simple, I was wondering how a demake for the Atari 2600 could look like. I think it wouldn't be too complicated if you display the squares solid instead of outlined, use players for the player, enemies and bonus items and the missiles and ball for the shots. Also the enemy AI could be altered a bit so that they tend to avoid occupying the same scanline (so flicker can be minimised). The music could somewhat take advantage of the fact that there are (to my knowledge) multiple waveforms on the TIA whose frequencies are scaled up by the factor 3 relative to each other (I hope I'm clear enough here). Not that I want to start to do it, I only see it as a possibility... or does anyone know of a similar game for the 2600?

[MrBeefy]

I stumbled on this game as well in the last weeks (in a Youtube video with Atari 7800 homebrews) and I have to say I like it very much since I already liked to play Crossfire back in the day on the C-64 and TI-99. SInce the graphics are rather simple, I was wondering how a demake for the Atari 2600 could look like. I think it wouldn't be too complicated if you display the squares solid instead of outlined, use players for the player, enemies and bonus items and the missiles and ball for the shots. Also the enemy AI could be altered a bit so that they tend to avoid occupying the same scanline (so flicker can be minimised). The music could somewhat take advantage of the fact that there are (to my knowledge) multiple waveforms on the TIA whose frequencies are scaled up by the factor 3 relative to each other (I hope I'm clear enough here). Not that I want to start to do it, I only see it as a possibility... or does anyone know of a similar game for the 2600?

I am far from knowledgable in any of this but I would think you could get sort of close by hacking 2600 Beserk.

 

Salvo is awesome and Im happy to own it!

[+Trebor]

I am far from knowledgable in any of this but I would think you could get sort of close by hacking 2600 Beserk.

 

Salvo is awesome and Im happy to own it!

 

Salvo is indeed awesome.

 

Universal Chaos may be a better foundation for a 2600 VCS port.

[RevEng]

Thanks for the kind words, guys!

 

Universal Chaos would certainly be closer, but I think the things that distinguish Salvo from Crossfire would be lost in a hack. I have a feeling Kurt was asking about similar games just to look at the approach they took, though he may prove me wrong here shortly.

 

I have thought about what a 2600 Salvo port might take too, and had a similar breakdown to Kurt for graphics. It also might be possible to squeeze the playfield a bit and do a 96 pixel bitmap type kernel (with some extra ram) which would allow for any number of moving objects, but it would mean monochrome graphics and guaranteed 30hz flicker, which isn't worth the trade-off.

 

These days the expectation would be for the game to leverage an on-cart CPU for maximum wow factor, like all of the other recent popular 2600 homebrews. I have zero technical interest in that. I did a little bit of that sort of work when I expanded bB's DPC+ capabilities, but that was enough for me. One of the reasons I moved to the 7800 is it can do some kick-ass stuff, with just a 6502 and some code trickery.

 

Kurt, I'm not entirely sure I know what you mean by scaled TIA frequencies, but Salvo uses only TIA audio (with perceptual tuning), so a direct port is definitely possible.

[Kurt_Woloch]

Sorry about being unclear in my last post. I did some searching as well, and I think Universal Chaos comes closest to this as well. There's another link however... I knew something like this was done already, and the Wikipedia entry to Crossfire, which Salvo is based on, claims that Crossfire is based on the Exidy arcade game Targ. So I tried that one, and then its sequel, Spectar, but Targ is in fact very basic compared to even Crossfire with only two types of enemy and none of them firing back at you, so I like Spectar much better with its varied gameplay though it introduces some elements not present in Crossfire... your aim of also collecting dots and the barriers.

Then, there's also an Atari 2600 prototype of Targ which I also played, and it actually feels a bit better than the arcade game with the enemies being slower (at least in the beginning). According to your hint to Universal Chaos, I tried that one as well, and as it seems, Universal Chaos is actually the completed version of the Targ prototype with only the enemy sprites changed a bit. And it's a nice conversion in fact, as simple as it is.

 

Now I agree that some things shown in Salvo might be a bit too complex for the 2600, especially the multiple men following the players. The remaining elements would be pretty doable, I think, except for the colors... I, too, would expect a 2600 version to have monochrome sprites (but I think they could have different colors depending on the type of enemy).

 

As for programming, I also have no interest in programming for an on-cart CPU.

 

As for the TIA reference, I was actually referring to the music of Crossfire on the C-64 which is very nice and catchy. I realize that Salvo has a different tune, and I have to admit not actually having heard it through to the end.previously... but it's good as well, just a different tune. Actually I've seen (or heard) a different version of it on the Tandy PC version which plays a different melody line which isn't present on the C-64 although it doesn't use any decaying notes.

[maxu3x]

Is the final rom available?

[+Trebor]

Is the final rom available?

 

Same answer for your second post to the forum, as your first one, when you inquired similarly about Baby Pac-Man.

[+wongojack]

Played T:me Salvo.  Shot some bad guys.  Got some humans killed.  Became Santa.  Got more humans killed.  Would get humans killed again.

[Jinks]

So how do you become santa? Do I need to fry the 7800?? J/K 

[Cousin Vinnie]

Just got done reviewing this guy today, in fact

It's T:ME to get funky with T:ME Salvo.

www.Atari7800Forever.com/tsr.html

 

[+Trebor]

1 hour ago, Jinks said:

So how do you become santa? Do I need to fry the 7800?? J/K 

Regarding the free digital download, Christmas T:ME Salvo is not unlockable.

 

The following works only under the full cartridge version of the game, for sale in the AtariAge Store:

 

 

At the beginning of any level, destroy four Relentless Grunts as they enter.

 

Also, don't forget, speech could have been added to the above with an AtariVox!

[+sramirez2008]

@TreborGuess I know what I’ll be playing later today, with my Edladdin Super Twin 78.? 

[+sramirez2008]

[RevEng]

To hopefully help more people get into the Christmas spirit in a 7800 kind of way, "Christmas Salvo" has been attached to the first post in this thread. Now flash cart and emulator players can also blow away robots as old St. Nick. ?????

 

Best of the season to all of you, and your families!