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How many Apple II games were made?


PDog

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Just anecdotal evidence here (my own, for what it's worth) - back between 1985 and 1989 I had amassed a collection of somewhere around 2500 diskettes worth of Apple ][ software which I collected mainly through mail trading with around a half dozen people I contacted (or contacted me) through Computist magazine and some things from the BBS scene, usually newer releases. I had them all cataloged and categorized in an AppleWorks database. I remember going to a couple of Warez trading parties in Austin, TX around 1989 where I and my best college bud brought all of what we had in 2 suitcases - kind of like the mob showing up, is how one of the attendees described it at the time. With that being said, it was nearly impossible to find something we didn't already have that wasn't some variation on things already in our collections. Sure we could have added 100+ EAMON adventures but we were more interested in the commercial stuff, so more often than not we passed on stuff like that. So I'd have to say that even in 1985, the claim of 10,000 software titles was being at least somewhat deceptive. If you're counting every single program on, for example, the DOS 3.3, PRODOS and Beagle Bros. utilities diskettes as a software title, then I'm pretty sure that number is accurate. But as for that many actual commercial products you could purchase individually, I'd say that's quite an inflated number.

 

As for what happened to my collection... sadly, UPS lost EVERYTHING when I shipped it all home to PA at the end of my Spring semester in 1989. But it ended up being bittersweet, as I replaced it with an Amiga 500 (a decision I've never regretted) with the insurance check I received from UPS and used that up until 1998 before finally moving to a Win98 PC.

 

Anyway, yes, it is definitely cool that someone is finally creating a database of Apple ][ software. It's the platform I used during some of the happiest days of my teenage years and brings back many wonderful memories.

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A couple of minor points to make on Tanrunomad's list.

 

First, should you include compilations/re-releases in a game list? If a game was released originally on its own and later re-released by a different company or bundled with other previously standalone games, counting each game more than once presents an inflated number of actual games released for the system.

 

If you go this route, Akalabeth has a self-published release not contained on the list : http://www.mocagh.org/loadpage.php?getgame=akalabethcomputerland

 

Second, should helper programs like Wizprint or Ultima IV Construction Set be on this list? They are not games in and of themselves and only enhance a game. (You are missing Ultima III Construction Set).

 

Third, remakes should have their own separate entries. "Ultima" and its remake, "Ultima I: The First Age of Darkness" are sufficiently distinct from each other in terms of software and by being released by separate companies, years apart, in very different packaging.

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Good points. In order to get anywhere near 10,000 I believe all re-releases and compilations are required. ;-)

 

Then again all the numbers on C64 titles, Atari 8-bit titles, MSX titles, Amstrad CPC titles and whichever other mostly proprietary computer format you want to mention, will likewise be inflated to some degree. A few of their lists try to keep compilations separate, and some try to link together re-releases as one entry, but not all of them do so no matter how we count in order to compare which system had the most number of games, there will be error margins. On the other hand it goes without saying since usually anyone could produce and sell software without going through a single source of licensing, which meant nobody could have full knowledge of how many games there were out there.

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I always heard, 2nd hand, 3rd hand, and so on, that the amount of PROGRAMS was just a little over 17,000. Once you include type-ins and compilations and re-releases, I'm sure that number increases significantly to over 50,000.

 

Games only? Pffftt.. who knows.. A comprehensive list will eventually tell the number.

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  • 2 years later...

Bump! I just checked Tanrunomad's page which was last updated in May 2018, soon to be two years ago. He has reached 3122 entries, compared to the 2149 entries in the 4 AM Collection on Archive.org. It is a good figure, in line with how many games have been listed for the Acorn BBC Micro but still miles away from 10000, 15000, 17000, 50000...

 

I know it was discussed in another thread here on AA recently about the ton of strategy games in particular (SSI and others) which were exclusive to the Apple II. Tanrunomad has a little over 100 such titles, which is the exact same amount as Gamebase 64 has. I suppose the A2 inventory is missing a lot of strategy games still.

 

Can we obtain another 2000 or 5000 old Apple II games not yet listed before the end of this year? I'm even willing to including educational software to push the numbers.

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  • 1 year later...

Tanrunomad's list is still stopped at 3122 (2018) but it also includes compilation items and all the "101 BASIC Computer Games" type-ins. Mobygames has 2600 games (including compilations and a few homebrews), Gamespot has 1300, Virtualapple has 1450, Everygamegoing has 2600 (including educationals and rereleases), Macgui has 4900 (counting every single disk of any origin). Reality is probably in the 2000-3000 commercial games.

 

10000 games is just not realistic. That's the C64 and Spectrum order of magnitude

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There's things missing from the Tanrunomad's list. And there are items that aren't even games being listed. And how about educational? When does an educational title become a game? When does it stay strictly educational? Both of which are seeing more titles being revealed on a weekly basis at the moment.

 

 

On 7/25/2021 at 3:36 PM, Garantito al limone said:

Tanrunomad's list is still stopped at 3122 (2018) but it also includes compilation items and all the "101 BASIC Computer Games" type-ins. Mobygames has 2600 games (including compilations and a few homebrews), Gamespot has 1300, Virtualapple has 1450, Everygamegoing has 2600 (including educationals and rereleases), Macgui has 4900 (counting every single disk of any origin). Reality is probably in the 2000-3000 commercial games.

 

10000 games is just not realistic. That's the C64 and Spectrum order of magnitude

Classification and description can significantly sway a count. Just figuring in MECC and SunBurst titles can move it by thousand or 2.

 

On 2/17/2020 at 5:00 AM, carlsson said:

Bump! I just checked Tanrunomad's page which was last updated in May 2018, soon to be two years ago. He has reached 3122 entries, compared to the 2149 entries in the 4 AM Collection on Archive.org. It is a good figure, in line with how many games have been listed for the Acorn BBC Micro but still miles away from 10000, 15000, 17000, 50000...

Keyword is "games". Don't think anyone claimed 10000, 15000, let alone 17000 or 50000.

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Various numbers and claims have been floating around in this thread and elsewhere. @high voltage referred to Computer Gaming World, July-Aug 1983 which seems to have suggested the Apple II (??) had 3900 games by then, and the magazine EG in May 1985 which listed 16000 software titles available. The later number would include all types of software including business, productivity, educational, games etc. It was also pointed out that the Apple II platform was commercially viable until c:a 1992, which leaves a time period of 7 years between the EG quote and the end of the system.

 

I've read the claim that titles are missing from Tanrunomad's and other people's lists several times now but I haven't seen anyone trying to remedy that by even listing names of games that were available. Even 10 more titles would be a victory, if you can name 1000 more titles it would be groundbreaking as it would increase the known list of games by 1/3.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well, it's either because:

- people don't have the time

- people don't care

- people don't know where to look (which I doubt but you also have to get off the beaten track)

 

The question remains: there are at least 20,000 educational titles for the Apple, do you want to add them to the total like GameBase64 or Atarimania? I already gave several sources where that software is listed (plus a number of game programs), I think it's just a matter of finding someone in the Apple community to do the homework.

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Yeah. I suppose as long as people don't really bother, some of us are OK to assume that the Apple 2 had around ~3000-4000 games in total while others assume it had ~10000 games or more. I'm unsure which other sources you already mentioned since I could not find a post from you before in this thread, but I suppose it is a matter of definition how much of the educational material should count as games or software in general. Like I mentioned, EG stated a total of 16000 software packages in 1985. While the market for A2 probably slowed down quite a bit from there on until the end in 1992, one could assume that the total easily reached 20K which equals the number for educational titles only that you refer to. I don't recall who claimed 50K total titles but I have a feeling someone (else than me) once did.

 

4K games + 20K educational titles + 10K business, productivity and utility titles = 35K total, and that is a very wild estimate before adding random software from user groups.

 

Basically, I suppose the original question never will be possible to answer since it seems so sketchy and mythical about Apple games, unlike other more gaming oriented computers.

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19 hours ago, www.atarimania.com said:

Well, it's either because:

- people don't have the time

- people don't care

- people don't know where to look (which I doubt but you also have to get off the beaten track)

That's fairly obvious (especially the first two reasons), but the fact remains that most of the other micro-communities got together and produced very precise databases - as you yourself know best of course :) Which, given the cult-status of Apple II and how influential it was, is fairly surprising.

 

I said as much when asking about  AII databases in this thread. As I also said there, I'm kind of thinking about making an ultimate, combined game collection myself, but it is a big undertaking and Apple is not even that high on my project priority list. But if there were few more volunteers I think I would commit. I suppose that with 3-4 people contributing (each sorting out a library section, eg A-K, via cross-checking all the major available sources) it could be done in a reasonable amount of time (a few months?).

 

Educational games are a bit of a puzzle (pun unintended) because some really are games and some just tests or problems, and the dividing line is rather blurry. 20K is also a very high figure, I'm not sure it's actually true - especially if it's just coming from a singular source.

 

 

 

 

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I'm totally content to say overall the Apple II had 17,000 software titles. It's the number I've heard the most over the past 45 years. I believe it impossible to know anywhere near an accurate count. And if we ever do get one, it's only going to increase.

 

22 hours ago, youxia said:

Which, given the cult-status of Apple II and how influential it was, is fairly surprising.

Are we sure the Apple II ever had a cult following? I'd say C64 and niche micros had even a bigger following. As much as I'm biased toward the II series. I'm hesitant to elevate it to cult status.

 

22 hours ago, youxia said:

Educational games are a bit of a puzzle (pun unintended) because some really are games and some just tests or problems, and the dividing line is rather blurry.

And then there's games that are meant to be educational. Think WillyByte or CarmenSandiego or Halley's Comet. Lots of gray here.

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Sources to get you started:

Fairly sure you'll hit the 15-20,000 mark with these publications alone.

 

 

Edited by www.atarimania.com
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  • 2 years later...

3.5 years later down the road, has anyone gone through the mentioned lists and encyclopedias to find the 20000 educational titles, of which some supposedly had gaming qualities? The best number I've seen so far is 3122, which is less than what Computer Gaming World quoted already in the summer of 1983. It seems like a mystery to me how thousands and thousands of Apple II games not only have vanished from circulation, but also from the collective mind of the enthusiasts.

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I'm not sure how the counters at Archive.org work, as it currently says the 4 AM collection contains 0 files of which 2577 were added in December 2023. Previously I found a number at 2149 items in February 2020. I don't know if those two numbers are additive or if the larger number contains the former set. If we assume those 2577 entries uploaded (and then deleted?) are entirely exclusive from Tanrunomad's collection of 3122, we positively get 5700 entries. I doubt that would be the case though.

 

In any case, it seems the market for educational software must've been fierce if it made up for well over 50% of the entire library, some 8000-10000 titles if not more. While the Apple II was a dominant school computer in the US, how many software publishers managed to make ends meet if they had such a massive competition? Some of those titles surely dominated the education market while others may have sold or otherwise got distributed in a few hundred copies.

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The commodore had more of a cult following, there's T-shirts with the load "*"8,1,

 

There's many public domain disks and several fan made junk that my brother and I made growing up that I have that I sent off to have .dsk images made from Software Excitement. Thanks @Keatah

 

I just have one that couldn't be made that I havent found on the https://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/images/

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So I eventually did build this collection:

While it's not been "finished" (mission impossible), I think the core target of collecting most available Apple II games under one roof, in a 1G1R format, has been accomplished. The resulting number of singular games is 2461. I think it includes most of the commercial ones (though also all other sorts of games like PD or type-ins), and you can add god-knows-what number of missing PD games on top of that (some of which might not be actually missing but hiding on the zillion of as-yet-unsorted compilation disks)

 

I kept educational software separate. The number of single archives here is 2891 - though I didn't sort them as well as the games proper, so there are some duplicates (mostly MECC) and also a lot of separate disks which belong to one edu package but have different subjects.

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That would be indeed interesting to see, but I suspect it contains not only singular titles but many with multiple disks/sides (and also possible duplicates on compilations). Most Apple collections are like that, and I went through all the well-known ones (ie 4am and entire Asimov).

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