Omega-TI Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 /RANT MODE ON Okay, heres the deal... the TI Joystick only has ONE FREAKING BUTTON! Now, even TI's most popular game of all time, Parsec, required buttons 1,2 & 3 for game play and P for pause. Many other games require ENTER, SPACE, 1 or 2 just to start the game play. Still other games require might require "Q" or "." to fire. So what does this mean? YOU CAN NEVER GET FAR FROM THE KEYBOARD when playing! What can be done about this? What method would you take to MODERNIZE the TI's game play ability? Going in and soldering on to the keyboard matrix is fine for a one-off or a custom job, but is there anyway a KIT could be made "for the masses"? Heck maybe even an interface board for an existing controller would work. Something needs to be done, my question is what and how? /RANT MODE OFF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Q is the fire button, so that issue is moot. The problem is that the interface doesn't give you many options, as all of the keyboard matrix isn't extended out the joystick port. You basically have Q, E, S, D, and X. That doesn't give you a lot to work with unless you do some console surgery. . .something most people are loathe to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 I agree, most people are not interested in cutting up or performing surgery, but what if you could install a Y-Adapter where the keyboard plugs into the TI? Not much hassle in that. After that, maybe some sort of converter that outputs to a modern controller/connector. It might even be possible to have programmable keys, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hloberg Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) If you use only one joystick wouldn't it be a simple case of setting Joystick 2 up/down/left/right as A/B/C/D with other button as E ? I would think any old Nintendo Joystick could be re-wired with out creating an interface. Edited May 17, 2014 by hloberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 If you use only one joystick wouldn't it be a simple case of setting Joystick 2 up/down/left/right as A/B/C/D with other button as E ? I would think any old Nintendo Joystick could be re-wired with out creating an interface. I think we would need at least 1, 2, 3, P, SPACE and ENTER to be supported. Having the ability to have the single controller switchable as Joystick 1 or Joystick 2 would be a nice feature too. If I remember right there was a game, I think it's Star Trek that can only use Joystick 2. I don't believe 1, 2, 3, P, SPACE and ENTER are all sent to the joystick port. Doing a simple re-wire on the controller would cause other issues and still require permanent surgery on the console that would make it incompatible with other programs. Branching of with a Y-Adapter at the keyboard interface would maintain original use of the joystick port, but still give one the new options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 There is an adapter which fits between the Amiga 1200 motherboard and the keyboard flex-ribbon. In the TI, the same type of smart adapter would be possible. The interface to the joystick port would be a different case as there is no place to intercept. A smart adapter between the keyboard and motherboard with its own DE-9 port would work. But, why go so old-school? Put a USB port here which is programmed to accept various adapters, like the standard DE-9 TI, Atari, Amiga 2-button, Sega Genesis 3- and 6-button controllers, NES controller, etc. The USB port can be mounted to the case or hung out the side or back. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 A smart adapter between the keyboard and motherboard with its own DE-9 port would work. But, why go so old-school? Put a USB port here which is programmed to accept various adapters, like the standard DE-9 TI, Atari, Amiga 2-button, Sega Genesis 3- and 6-button controllers, NES controller, etc. The USB port can be mounted to the case or hung out the side or back. Oh Hell yeah! I put the output for the F18A on the back of the console... there is still PLENTY or room for another connector! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary from OPA Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 The Joystick port on the TI99 can do more with the right software, there was even a serial/printer interface built for it once. I myself even wired up those Atari StarRaiders VideoPad thingie's to the TI99, worked great for adding more options for control to video game. Not to mention the MBX addon for Joypad, of course that is more hardware, but just shows that TI99 Joystick port can do more, as you can think of it like a 4 bit slow interface using CRU opcodes in assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 The Joystick port on the TI99 can do more with the right software, there was even a serial/printer interface built for it once. I myself even wired up those Atari StarRaiders VideoPad thingie's to the TI99, worked great for adding more options for control to video game. Not to mention the MBX addon for Joypad, of course that is more hardware, but just shows that TI99 Joystick port can do more, as you can think of it like a 4 bit slow interface using CRU opcodes in assembly. That's kind of cool, I was not aware that the port had so much flexibility. Whatever is done, it'll have to remain 100% compatible with all existing software. I kind of like the Y-Cable plug-in solution going into a keyboard matrix converter before being output to a modern controller... as long as it does not slow down reaction time! I bet the cost on this would be within anyone's reach if it was built. One thing is sure, it would be an EASY install. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hloberg Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 creating a switch to change Joystick 1 to 2 and visa-versa would involve just making a switch for pin 2 to 7. 2 is ground for joystick A and 7 is ground for joystick B. As for using a serial port check out mainbytes reprint of 'Joy talk is cheap'. I have considered creating this device for myself to give me a serial port. Only change I would make would pins 1 and 6 of the joystick (which are unused) the 12 volt power for the device. That is, after I make sure none of my TI-99 compatible joystick currently use those port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 The joystick port is very versatile, but all of the demonstrations of this functionality is based upon application-specific software. To use the port with "modern" sticks with stock games would require additional work, hence the idea of the interface. I used USB as an example because I am aware of, without practical experience with, USB adapters for various console controllers for use with emulators. Otherwise, one could limit the scope to just DE-9 controllers, perhaps even integrating the ability to read potentiometers for use with paddles. CRU lines which scan the keyboard could be used to control the programming. Imagine, if you will, a quick set-up program which would map the Genesis' 6-button controller for Parsec: A, B, C for fire, and X, Y, Z for lifts 1 through 3. If you prefer a PlayStation or Super NES controller you would have a few more buttons to map. I rather like the CD32 controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperious Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Any upgrade is nice obviously, however it's not as though the TI is alone in this respect, only the biggest selling computer of the 80's is in the exact same boat, the c64 of course. Most games across the Vic-20 and c64 have you pressing at least one of the Function keys to select levels, difficulty, start. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but imho this is what sorts consoles from computers, and it's exactly the same 30+ years later. I doubt I could ever get the hang of playing an FPS game with a controller only, and flight sims (not that their popular anymore) had You having massive keyboard reference charts just to play them. Part of the charm of using these old computers is having to use the keyboard, its feels more interactive. Some games were definitely handicapped with one fire button though, Xevious comes to mind there with its separate fire/bomb buttons in the arcade cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 I dunno, I'd like to be able to buy a kit or at least the interface to go with a kit (like pictured below) so I could make a new Super TI-Joystick. I think my Parsec score would improve if I did not have to dive for the keyboard to hit the proper lift button when necessary. I cannot tell you how many ships I've lost just doing that. Some people have made some nice sticks... but I'd need a right handed one myself... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Try driving a Mech sometime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unhuman Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I dunno, I'd like to be able to buy a kit or at least the interface to go with a kit (like pictured below) so I could make a new Super TI-Joystick. I think my Parsec score would improve if I did not have to dive for the keyboard to hit the proper lift button when necessary. I cannot tell you how many ships I've lost just doing that. Some people have made some nice sticks... but I'd need a right handed one myself... I did exactly this for a USB joystick. It was fun. I have a ton of spare parts (I had a much larger setup / delusions of grandeur) if you wanted some - pretty much pay postage and I'll send... Gotta look what I have though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+arcadeshopper Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I like mine better: (i have a 1 and 2 player model and they work stand alone ) I dunno, I'd like to be able to buy a kit or at least the interface to go with a kit (like pictured below) so I could make a new Super TI-Joystick. I think my Parsec score would improve if I did not have to dive for the keyboard to hit the proper lift button when necessary. I cannot tell you how many ships I've lost just doing that. Some people have made some nice sticks... but I'd need a right handed one myself... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 If we modernize the TI Joysticks it would be possible to make a more GUI type of User interface with Icons and be a little less text based. Of course this would require a EVPC or other type of VDP memory increase as 16K of VDP would make this almost impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 I like mine better: (i have a 1 and 2 player model and they work stand alone ) I like yours better too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 If we modernize the TI Joysticks it would be possible to make a more GUI type of User interface with Icons and be a little less text based. Of course this would require a EVPC or other type of VDP memory increase as 16K of VDP would make this almost impossible. Depending on what is designed and built into an interface, anything is POSSIBLE. I would be surprised if anything like that ever happened though. At this point there is nothing even remotely like that being bounced around and it would require programs that simply do not yet exist. You know, I do remember having a mouse on my TI shortly before selling out in the mid 90's. The mouse worked off RS-232/2, and it only worked with one program, TI-Artist if I remember correctly. Now in all those years nothing that I have seen has yet built upon that. There just does not seem to be much interest in a GUI for the TI. Now, I'm just envisioning one little keyboard matrix decoder with a couple of plugs that share keyboard and power connections, then output to a third. All of this would retain 100% compatibility with all existing programs, not interfere with regular hardware and require nothing else. With the talent we have here, someone could probably design, program and build something like this in a month or two. I'm even willing to bet that pre-orders would be pretty solid as well as I think unit cost would be reasonable enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I seem to remember three or four programs that used the mouse. I think Yapp did, the Asgard Mouse Development Kit did, and a couple of other programs did too. You are right though, it wasn't very many. I seem to remember there was also a driver that made the computer think the mouse was a joystick as far as some of the programs were concerned, so that it could work with more than just the programs specifically designed for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Well from GPL it would be cake as all the memory you need is there to have the programs stored as Assembly in GPL. Move the Assembly into memory and run it then return to GPL for the OS. Of course GPL would have to be the GUI OS as 8K of GPL is the same as 32K of Assembly to do the same thing. Reasons vary but mostly support routines are needed for Assembly to do much of anything vs GPL is built into the TI99/4A already. i.e. DSR, VDP, GROM, and IO access. Besides to load other programs or Carts would require GPL just like it does now, not a easy trick from Assembly as people that design Assembly only Carts can attest too. The only real modification is to use a Joystick or Mouse to move Icons and load or save or have Disk Manager functions. Restrictions would be Spites as only 32 exist in the TI but for Disk Management would mostly be text based. I used the Asgard Serial mouse on YAPP and TI Artist and looked very much like a PC. A Joystick version also did a great job with less delays then the serial mouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 Well from GPL it would be cake as all the memory you need is there to have the programs stored as Assembly in GPL. Well, YOU are the resident expert in GPL, a proficient programmer and have a firm grasp on what you want. Sounds like a good project. When do you start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Well first off need a Emulator that can access more than one page of GRAM at same time. Like the GRAMKRACKER or GRAMULATOR. Need at least 80K of GPL memory for this. GROM 0, 1 and 2 are the target for the GUI that way it has no effects on other Carts or devices. Like the SOB that came with the TIM card would see all the pages of Carts in each page and display them. Next need Emulator to have a DISK/HARD DSR that works like the real TI DSR Disk/Hard access. Lastly two version one 40/32 column and one 80/256 column to be usable. Maybe a F18 version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc.hull Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Well, YOU are the resident expert in GPL, a proficient programmer and have a firm grasp on what you want. Sounds like a good project. When do you start? Soon as you create this great joystick you have been championing... maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I was just looking at using the current Joysticks or Serial Mouse on for this project. I am not a hard ware guy. I have a Serial Track ball and works the same as a Serial mouse last time I test it on the TI99/4A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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