A Good First Start To Program?

[guiltl3ss]

Hey guys, I know there are many topics similar to this one so I do apologize in advance, but I do hope my spin on the question will be unique enough to avoid ire!

 

I want to get into Jag programming, but I have only done VERY basic programming. Where would you suggest starting to get the skills to eventually progress to Jag programming? I've read a lot of the documentation, especially for Jag, and I guess I need to learn Assembler. This this correct? Would you suggest a language to learn...and maybe find a book on at the local thrift store? Honestly, is jumping into Jag programming something that should be done? I love the Jag and have some ideas that I would love to make happen.

 

Thanks!

[+Stephen Moss]

In general terms I personally think that...

Assembler:

is the best language to use if you can master it as you are working at the most fundamental level, as close to machine code as possible. It will help if you want to use/modify some of the Atari examples and give you maximum flexibility with your code as depending on how good the compiler/optimiser is a compiled language such as C or Basic may generate more instructions than necessary making program size unnecessarily large.

 

However unlike C or BASIC which are written more in English and thus easier to get back into after a break, Assembler is not a language you can rally dip in and out of or a week every few months as you need a good memory for all the mnemonics to be able to jump back into coding after a while without virtually relearning the language from scratch.

 

C or C++

There is a C compiler provided with the Jaguar dev setup (VBCC) so you can program in C if you find that easier, personally I hate it as it takes 4 lines of curly bracketed nonsense to do what you can in a single, clean, easy to read line of BASIC.

 

BASIC:

If you can find a BASIC to assembler converter that may be the simplest option as far as learning the language goes provided it will permit you to access the Jaguars registers by name, i.e. Joystick = $FF0F/ Variable name = Joystick or Peek/Poke Joystick.

VRBasic had a limited release to those interested in it last year, it essentially converts BASIC to C and then use a C compiler to convert to Assembler. Currently you can using it for drawing text and graphics on a 320 x 240 screen, hopefully register access (so that the controllers can be used) will come sometime this year.

 

Programming refernces:

There are many books and online references to programming in C, BASIC and Assembler, the best thing is to search unitl you find one written in a style that makes sense to you.

For Assembly programing but you might want to try the "Motorola 68000 Programmers Manual", a free PDF download and "The Motorola Mc68000: An Introduction to Processor, Memory, and Interfacing" by Jean Bacon, although the code examples in Jean's book reference a specific system it helped me get a simple understand the fundamentals and principles of Assembler programming.

 

[guiltl3ss]

Awesome thanks!

[VladR]

If you are more inclined towards the final product than say, coding for the sake of coding an engine- then I suppose I could help you set up the VRBasic toolchain. It handles loading bitmaps for you, allows you to manipulate palette easily and lots of other features (it's been a year, so I don't remember everything now).

 

I have about 7 or 8 working samples that each focus on different area. There is a reasonably large backend library behind VRBasic that supports all kinds of gfx functionality (sprites, text, characters,...). No Audio at the moment, and Input works only in VJ.

 

To get something up&running on Jag fast (e.g. within an hour or so), I believe this approach requires the least amount of effort - you grab the sample, change the directory where you art assets are and within an hour you have the code that can traverse the whole multi-screen level, for example.

 

I have a set-up that upon pressing F5 key in Notepad++ launched the build scripts that handle all the nitty-gritty details of the translation/compilation and deploy it into VJ's directory, so you just have to AltTab into VJ, hit Ctril+I and you're running the executable few seconds after you finished typing the source code

[TXG/MNX]

If you are more inclined towards the final product than say, coding for the sake of coding an engine- then I suppose I could help you set up the VRBasic toolchain. It handles loading bitmaps for you, allows you to manipulate palette easily and lots of other features (it's been a year, so I don't remember everything now).

 

I have about 7 or 8 working samples that each focus on different area. There is a reasonably large backend library behind VRBasic that supports all kinds of gfx functionality (sprites, text, characters,...). No Audio at the moment, and Input works only in VJ.

 

To get something up&running on Jag fast (e.g. within an hour or so), I believe this approach requires the least amount of effort - you grab the sample, change the directory where you art assets are and within an hour you have the code that can traverse the whole multi-screen level, for example.

 

I have a set-up that upon pressing F5 key in Notepad++ launched the build scripts that handle all the nitty-gritty details of the translation/compilation and deploy it into VJ's directory, so you just have to AltTab into VJ, hit Ctril+I and you're running the executable few seconds after you finished typing the source code

 

Seems that your notepad ++ setup is almost the same as mine :-)

[guiltl3ss]

If you are more inclined towards the final product than say, coding for the sake of coding an engine- then I suppose I could help you set up the VRBasic toolchain. It handles loading bitmaps for you, allows you to manipulate palette easily and lots of other features (it's been a year, so I don't remember everything now).

 

I have about 7 or 8 working samples that each focus on different area. There is a reasonably large backend library behind VRBasic that supports all kinds of gfx functionality (sprites, text, characters,...). No Audio at the moment, and Input works only in VJ.

 

To get something up&running on Jag fast (e.g. within an hour or so), I believe this approach requires the least amount of effort - you grab the sample, change the directory where you art assets are and within an hour you have the code that can traverse the whole multi-screen level, for example.

 

I have a set-up that upon pressing F5 key in Notepad++ launched the build scripts that handle all the nitty-gritty details of the translation/compilation and deploy it into VJ's directory, so you just have to AltTab into VJ, hit Ctril+I and you're running the executable few seconds after you finished typing the source code

 

Oh, as long as it wouldn't be a problem I would love any help I could get! Thank you!

[VladR]

Sure, so we can discuss more details over the PM. I can flip you an installation package of VRBasic.

 

It's too bad the old JSII forums are gone, since that thread of mine contained a lot of important information about the set-up on different versions of Windows, but it's not an insurmountable problem, as long as you know your way (basic configuring and dev set-up) along your version of Windows well.

 

If you still have an XP, then the set-up is indeed just a one click and it will just plain work.

 

We need to set aside at least an hour when we will be online at the same time, so that I can give you a tour...

 

Actually, I just got an idea - go set up an account here : http://jaguar64.eu/viewforum.php?f=5

Once you get registered, we can create several threads about the set-up, features, usage, roadmap, and other VRBasic-related questions.

 

There, it will be much easier to have a technical discussion without the endless trolling that inevitably tends to happen here...

[guiltl3ss]

Okay sounds good. If I'm slow to respond, I apologize. My wife and I are getting ready to move and I have a job interview on Monday. Its been a crazy week!

[VladR]

I can definitely understand that.

 

This weekend is the first in last month that I did not have to spend at work or moving. Jag is still packed somewhere, but PC has been set up, so I could finally resume the work on VRBasic...