rpc_games Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) Hi everyone, Steve here from RPC-Games! Pete's home with a chest infection and probably out for the rest of the week so I don't think he'll mind if I comment. I too worked on Centron 3D. You guys know that displaying extra colours on an Atari 8-Bit screen using a CRT will flicker. Shading the colours does take the edge off but their is still flicker. At the beginning when Pete just started developing cmode72 with the old CRT Commodore 64 monitor their was flicker, then the monitor shit itself and we only had LCD TV's to work with, this is why we are letting people know about Centron 3D and CRT tubes. We've made it clear on the website and even in the game about the crt screens and the bloody flicker it does. If you only have a crt then use an emulator with page blending or whatever it's blood called. Pete and I have worked long hours on Centron 3D and at our first meeting I said not to do it but he said he wants to please Atari users with a new game. If I knew he was getting this much shit from you guys I would of cancelled Centron 3D and kept on working on the RetroPC1010 project, that's far more important than this. I believe that this project was the biggest waste of my time and expertise. Steve. Edited July 6, 2014 by rpc_games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 . If I knew he was getting this much shit from you guys I would of cancelled Centron 3D and kept on working on the RetroPC1010 project, that's far more important than this. As a good manager, he was merely protecting the developers from the wrath of the customers. The link between the wrath and his comments, being purely coincidental, of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Well, the staff have a remarkably consistent posting style. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Pete and I have worked long hours on Centron 3D and at our first meeting I said not to do it but he said he wants to please Atari users with a new game. If I knew he was getting this much shit from you guys I would of cancelled Centron 3D and kept on working on the RetroPC1010 project, that's far more important than this. This is why you should really wait until you have more than pictures to back up your claims. Many people have pretended to be working on things they couldn't deliver and it leaves everyone cynical, especially when someone presents A8 development as being the result of a business decision. No one ever makes any money doing this unless their time is worth less than a dollar an hour. However, I agree some people here have been unnecessarily harsh and I look forward to seeing the game. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I also look forward to the game. However, if you do another one, you may want to announce it like this was. No bravado, no false claims, nothing released except a video of gameplay when it was almost ready for release. It's a much better way to avoid all the "shit" you guys are getting. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 You guys know that displaying extra colours on an Atari 8-Bit screen using a CRT will flicker. Shading the colours does take the edge off but their is still flicker. At the beginning when Pete just started developing cmode72 with the old CRT Commodore 64 monitor their was flicker, then the monitor shit itself and we only had LCD TV's to work with, this is why we are letting people know about Centron 3D and CRT tubes. We've made it clear on the website and even in the game about the crt screens and the bloody flicker it does. If you only have a crt then use an emulator with page blending or whatever it's blood called. Hi Steve, How can you write this? In the very first introduction (yes the thread where I was very skeptical indeed) RPC_GAMES was claiming that Centron 3D was going to push a8 to it's limits. Without any references or any knowledge about other great productions for atari 8bit, that was a rather overconfident attitude; but ok. There was NO mention of any flicker at all. After a while a screenshot was posted. A lot of reactions on AtariAge again, and a lot of guessing. RPC_GAMES did not want to explain how the technique works. People guessing again, and people starting to write that there must be some kind of flicker involved. Still no word from RPC_GAMES about flicker! Then a youtube movie was released. And ... someone found out that there WAS flicker! And suddenly RPC_GAMES started to admit that there would be some kind of Flicker. >Emulator That must be a joke right? As a huge atari 8bit fan, I think emulators are nice tools, but they never replace the real thing. When I play a game, it's on my Atari 8bit computer. I don't mind flicker when it is not too annoying (like Space Harrier, which is very good playable with flicker) > How people write about pete/rpc_games I agree about that; although a lot of other people were supportive too. > Pete's health I wish him all the best! With or without Centron 3D; I will be fine. We'll see what future brings. Only thing I have to be honest about. My first thoughts were skeptical, I later made my apologies for that, and now the chance that this game will be released is very small... so now I have: hmm my first thoughts were right anyway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Well, the staff have a remarkably consistent posting style. Yes indeed, exactly what I thought when I saw this... Perhaps they are twins.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I also look forward to the game. However, if you do another one, you may want to announce it like this was. No bravado, no false claims, nothing released except a video of gameplay when it was almost ready for release. It's a much better way to avoid all the "shit" you guys are getting. Hit the nail on the head.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Hi everyone, Steve here from RPC-Games! Pete's home with a chest infection and probably out for the rest of the week so I don't think he'll mind if I comment. I too worked on Centron 3D. You guys know that displaying extra colours on an Atari 8-Bit screen using a CRT will flicker. Shading the colours does take the edge off but their is still flicker. At the beginning when Pete just started developing cmode72 with the old CRT Commodore 64 monitor their was flicker, then the monitor shit itself and we only had LCD TV's to work with, this is why we are letting people know about Centron 3D and CRT tubes. We've made it clear on the website and even in the game about the crt screens and the bloody flicker it does. If you only have a crt then use an emulator with page blending or whatever it's blood called. Pete and I have worked long hours on Centron 3D and at our first meeting I said not to do it but he said he wants to please Atari users with a new game. If I knew he was getting this much shit from you guys I would of cancelled Centron 3D and kept on working on the RetroPC1010 project, that's far more important than this. I believe that this project was the biggest waste of my time and expertise. Steve. Forget about the negativity, everyone wants to see a game at the end of this and when they do, they will be very happy that you've done all of this work and a lot of people will retract their comments I am sure. I sense that a lot of people *want* to be proven wrong and from what I sense of Pete, he actually thrived on the point that he knew that in the end he would prove everybody wrong. Your time is not wasted if you go on to achieve what Pete was saying. Flicker or no flicker, it's a new game. We'll be thankful of that. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 OK, I'm curious about people's opinions about this issue: If an Atari game uses a flicker mode, is that a bad thing? Or is it mitigated by how bad the flicker is, what techniques are used? If a game flickers badly on a PAL CRT, but looks decent and nice on a modern LCD TV without flicker, is that acceptable? My opinion is (and maybe I am biased) that flicker in and of itself is not a bad thing when using special modes like Super IRG or CMODE, or that 16 color Graphics 7 flicker that Sheddy used in Space Harrier. It all depends on how you program it. A straight Graphics 9 + 11 full frame flicker (like in Darryl Yong's Pryzm mode) is of course going to look horrible on CRT, but some techniques, like stepping luminances (HIP), or doing scanline changes (like in that remake I did of Itay's The Wall in CIN mode), or checkerboard dithering (like in Super IRG) do help out, in my opinion. At the end of the day it's all down to personal taste I suppose, but I think pushing the Atari in new directions, and pushing the hardware beyond what is generally considered its limits, can only be a good thing. I suggest we all calm down, and let's see what the RPC guys come out with. Besides, it's a NEW GAME for the Atari. That can't be a bad thing you know. Then we can all pass judgement on the quality of the product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Yes indeed, exactly what I thought when I saw this... Perhaps they are twins.... I just noticed that both (mis)use the word "their" in the exact same way, and foreshorten lines in posts with EOLs in roughly the same place. Pure coincidence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I just noticed that both (mis)use the word "their" in the exact same way, and foreshorten lines in posts with EOLs in roughly the same place. Pure coincidence. Them's Aussies, brotha' ! On a slightly more serious note, if he was (mis)using the same computer that was logged into AA, therein might lie the reason. Though, I still don't understand why would someone *manually* put EOLs into the middle of each and every line. Then again, it's winter down there... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 We've made it clear on the website and even in the game about the crt screens and the bloody flicker it does. The F*CK you did ! I have been following this development from the very start. There have been many local 8-bit authorities who said it cannot be done without the flicker - only that it is possible to reduce the flicker somewhat by using the colors in some optimal way. I wouldn't know, since 25 yrs ago there was no internet and I got stuck on - by today's standards - simple DLIs changes on A800XL. So, I trusted you, hoping you did indeed find some new technique/bug. But, lo and behold, you now do admit there is a flicker and somehow keep denying you never said there wouldn't be a flicker. So now all the hope is gone... What in the hell is wrong with you ? Oh, and Atari 800 and LCD ?!? Seriously ?!? I believe that this project was the biggest waste of my time and expertise. Amen, Brotha' ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I just noticed that both (mis)use the word "their" in the exact same way, and foreshorten lines in posts with EOLs in roughly the same place. Pure coincidence. Yes indeed, just like Pacific Rim, joined to each others neural synapse.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 The bleep you did ! Please, I have the sole potty mouth allowance on the site which I used up all in one day a few weeks back As his 'expertise', we will be the judge of that, so far the only expertise shown here is how to best make the pigs ear out of a so called game launch. Still no video but the option to order it in the morning, I somehow don't think I'll even sniff the site until its seen running on the real thing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 BTW, does anyone know what the 72 in CMODE72 stands for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 BTW, does anyone know what the 72 in CMODE72 stands for? Yes - it's the 72 distinct colours that are generated in this mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Yes - it's the 72 distinct colours that are generated in this mode. Ah, somehow I missed that. Hey, Monday comes early in Australia, doesn't it... I wonder if there will be any sort of downloadable demo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Please, I have the sole potty mouth allowance on the site which I used up all in one day a few weeks back As his 'expertise', we will be the judge of that, so far the only expertise shown here is how to best make the pigs ear out of a so called game launch. Still no video but the option to order it in the morning, I somehow don't think I'll even sniff the site until its seen running on the real thing.. I do not question their expertise. They clearly know what they are doing. I am merely pissed because I was hoping for what now seems like a miracle. Turns out, there was no flicker, since they used LCDs - DUH! I also did not join the bashing bandwaggon at the beginning - I was patiently waiting for the end result. I do believe I have the right to be upset, though. Then again, is there any video of game in action ? So far, I have seen mere screenshots... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) I do not question their expertise. They clearly know what they are doing. I am merely pissed because I was hoping for what now seems like a miracle. Turns out, there was no flicker, since they used LCDs - DUH! I also did not join the bashing bandwaggon at the beginning - I was patiently waiting for the end result. I do believe I have the right to be upset, though. Then again, is there any video of game in action ? So far, I have seen mere screenshots... Worse still, the screen shots are not in game and are all the same bar a background change, as I've said before, this is a car crash of a game launch, its been riddled with about face statements as seen with the posts from Flashjazz cat, "it flickers a bit on a crt" followed by "we didn't have one to test it on"?? Let alone the strange comment about the best way to play the Atari is on an LCD? Then we get 'Steve' who posts exactly in the same style as Pete, not like it, exactly like it who tells us about his expertise yet technically all we seen so far are mockups. No one made them do it this way, in fact the fact we got anything out of them was by people pushing for it. A very very strange way to market a game which is something I DO know about. And now you can order it pretty much NOW or within hours and there's not even been a demo, personally I need to see something in the flesh before I buy. IF the game comes out and IS as good as its been made out to be then I'm sure any detractors including myself will be happy to apologise and show utter respect but so far RPC have not done themselves proud. Edited July 6, 2014 by Mclaneinc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 The game being released tomorrow as promised won't change my opinion on a single aspect of this entire presentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelmischief Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 The game being released tomorrow as promised won't change my opinion on a single aspect of this entire presentation. No, but it will be a new game. And that alone would be enough for me. "All's well that ends well", they say; even if it doesn't end quite precisely as "flicker-free" as originally advertised. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) I've got nothing against the game, and if it is released, then gamers should rejoice. A few people have voiced an opinion on the way the game's promotion was undertaken, asked a few salient questions, noticed a few troubling contradictions. The point I'm making is that I can't suddenly "unsee" that, regardless of the outcome. We've seen plenty of people around here react badly to constructive criticism, so it's nothing new. At the end of the day, though: no such thing as bad publicity. Anyway: surely it's July 7 in Australia by now? Edited July 6, 2014 by flashjazzcat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Anyway: surely it's July 7 in Australia by now? It's about 5:30am in Melbourne, we'll give them chance to get up and brush their teeth! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 As I've said before, this whole thing smells of either a con job, or an attention whore doing her rounds. It's bullshit. Years of previous experience tells me it's bullshit. This guy isn't the first, nor will he be the last to try and feed his insecurities with solicited attention. -Thom p.s. If it's not, I will retract my statements. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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