Sikor Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 @Wilheim: XE GS PCB and Warner PCB are ok. On second question answer Mq. More info about compatibility: http://atarionline.pl/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4245&page=1#Item_0 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4447087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Info: I try it and Mq schema works also with kiCAD (import module) Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4447183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Info about orders: http://sikorsoft.waw.pl/en/cartridge-cases/ Send will be start on 10th or 12th february... 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4447234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzok Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 ...one possibly important information is missing - the depth of the shell - i.e. how much space is above and below the PCB. That's why technical drawings in CAD could be useful. But I understand that they would make the project easier to copy. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4447314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) Depth is identical with XE GS cases. Mechanical drawing has here - thx for Curt. Edited February 2, 2020 by Sikor ortography Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4447361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mq. Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 19 hours ago, Wilheim said: Thank you, Mq, for your answer. For the “bottom”, I supone you mean the back side of the cartridge. Is that way? Yes, I mean the back side of the cartridge. There are two layers in the Eagle: top and bottom. In my template top layer is back side of the cartridge. But I think there is no any problem for someone who designes cartridges, because there is proper pinout description on pcb template. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4447580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilheim Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Mq. said: Yes, I mean the back side of the cartridge. There are two layers in the Eagle: top and bottom. In my template top layer is back side of the cartridge. But I think there is no any problem for someone who designes cartridges, because there is proper pinout description on pcb template. Thank you! That’s all I need to know. I don’t have my laptop on hand so I couldn’t see your files on Eagle yet. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4447841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 For information: I'll pick up cases from the factory on Friday evening, so next week they will be available. 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4449337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sixersfan105 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Wow, this is exciting! This could very well lead to more A8 titles in the AA Store in the future! 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4449392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilheim Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Here's my work in progress so far, trying to make a Megacart 4M compatible with 2 27c160 eproms. The GALSs are on the other side, to save space 4 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4449408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Interesting. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4449539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Just thinking out loud: a SIC! cart in this shell Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4449544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Would be nice to have a PCB for the switchable XEGS model done as I think any out there are mod'd XEGS boards? The ideal would be to use a PLCC32 socket and so be able to choose which size (010, 020, 040) to use as the AM29F080 would require soldering onto the board and so would have to be flashed up front unless a GAL similar to the AtariMax could be made to enable reflashing. Although an 010 is 128KB it should be OK to run 32KB or 64KB images by repeating the binary to fill the space. (of course this is for making dedicated releases as users of AVG/UNO/Ultimate/The!Cart etc can emulate the S/XEGS model from a binary image) Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4449613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilheim Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 41 minutes ago, Wrathchild said: Would be nice to have a PCB for the switchable XEGS model done as I think any out there are mod'd XEGS boards? The ideal would be to use a PLCC32 socket and so be able to choose which size (010, 020, 040) to use as the AM29F080 would require soldering onto the board and so would have to be flashed up front unless a GAL similar to the AtariMax could be made to enable reflashing. Although an 010 is 128KB it should be OK to run 32KB or 64KB images by repeating the binary to fill the space. (of course this is for making dedicated releases as users of AVG/UNO/Ultimate/The!Cart etc can emulate the S/XEGS model from a binary image) I already made one: Now I'm trying to make the switchable version. 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4449748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 I'm assuming there's clearance if the eprom is socketed, although if not the whole board could be put under UV so not essential? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4449774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilheim Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Well, design of the PCB is completed: I will test a version I made previously to confirm everything is working fine, and then I will send the PCB making to China for production. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4449963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzok Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) Sorry to say, but it is an auto-router nightmare, not a PCB design. Traces are to close together, there is lots of vias, each trace from data and address buses is of different length. You don't care about signal path parasitic capacitance, propagation time, crosstalk nor bandwidth. No bypass capacitors near the chips, and the only filtering capacitor is in the middle of nowhere. You just draw a schematic, placed component on a PCB outline and clicked autoroute. This is not the way you design a PCB. Edited February 5, 2020 by tzok 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4450130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilheim Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, tzok said: Sorry to say, but it is an auto-router nightmare, not a PCB design. Traces are to close together, there is lots of vias, each trace from data and address buses is of different length. You don't care about signal path parasitic capacitance, propagation time, crosstalk nor bandwidth. No bypass capacitors near the chips, and the only filtering capacitor is in the middle of nowhere. You just draw a schematic, placed component on a PCB outline and clicked autoroute. This is not the way you design a PCB. Thank you for your feedback! I'm not used to all those concepts you named. I never studied electronics and all I did was self-learned, by learning different schematics and, as you stated, never cared of that things. All I tried is to adjust the width from Vcc and GND. Fortunately, I was lucky enough that my designs have worked until now. In the future, I will try to learn all the above and put them into practice. Cheers! Edited February 5, 2020 by Wilheim 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4450239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I always manually route my designs and try to find a way to minimize the number of vias. I think if you put the EEPROMs on opposite sides, you can much easilier route the address and data lines. Probably same for the GALs. Also, put 100n caps close to Vcc/GND for each IC. That'll solve a lot of problems. Add a ground and power fill, or two ground fills. Opinions on this differ. I prefer GND at the bottom and Vcc on top. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4450254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrbrevin Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 all very useful info in the recent posts. ive never ventured into PCB design but i'd like to one day ? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4450259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilheim Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 hour ago, ivop said: I always manually route my designs and try to find a way to minimize the number of vias. I think if you put the EEPROMs on opposite sides, you can much easilier route the address and data lines. Probably same for the GALs. Also, put 100n caps close to Vcc/GND for each IC. That'll solve a lot of problems. Add a ground and power fill, or two ground fills. Opinions on this differ. I prefer GND at the bottom and Vcc on top. Thank you for your suggestion. I prefer that way because I can put sockets for the eproms. The GALs ICs I'm not concerned to be socketed, as they performing simple logical work, so I just can solder them directly. Anyway, I followed some of your feedback, that is: adding decoupling capacitors, routing them as close as possible to VCC and GND to each IC (considering, also, easiness to install and inserting/removing EPROMs from the sockets), ground and supply filling (thanks, YouTube tutorials!), resulting on this: I'm aware that there's a lot to improve, but I'm learning step by step. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4450331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 On 2/4/2020 at 11:13 AM, Wilheim said: Here's my work in progress so far, trying to make a Megacart 4M compatible with 2 27c160 eproms. The GALSs are on the other side, to save space Just curious - why are the ICs angled like that? It looks to me like they would fit is parallel to each other, but I assume this was for clearance issues? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4450387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mq. Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I propose you to move ICs about 2-3mm in direction I drawn with yellow arrows. I marked two places with yellow color where they are colliding with bulkheads inside the enclosure. On the pcb template there are thick white lines that marks every bulkheads. In addition look at the pictures of enclosure to ensure which bulkheads are at top side and which are at bottom side. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4450421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilheim Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 35 minutes ago, Stephen said: Just curious - why are the ICs angled like that? It looks to me like they would fit is parallel to each other, but I assume this was for clearance issues? They are angled because they don’t fit horizontally or vertically. I tried that way and I only managed to fit just 1 eprom. It’s the only way i could make them fit both so far. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4450434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilheim Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, Mq. said: I propose you to move ICs about 2-3mm in direction I drawn with yellow arrows. I marked two places with yellow color where they are colliding with bulkheads inside the enclosure. On the pcb template there are thick white lines that marks every bulkheads. In addition look at the pictures of enclosure to ensure which bulkheads are at top side and which are at bottom side. Good point! I didn’t realize that. Bu the way, what about the upper left and upper right bulkheads? Is there any issue regarding it? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/227670-does-anyone-make-new-atari-8-bit-cartridge-shells/page/12/#findComment-4450438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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