KLund1 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Hello KLund1 I'm not sure what number Albert is thinking about, but I can not imagine Best of B&C having anywhere near as many as you'd have made if you had a special production run. The die is way more expansive then the plastic. Sincerely Mathy Best has a so many of the brown carts, he can't count. If I were to guess, and I have not seen it directly, but he may have a pallet or more. I've been there and his stock is beyond extensive. fyi Edited July 16, 2014 by KLund1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Best is probably not going to be competitive on price. He'd rather hold on to what he has than negotiate. I've heard that Best and B&C got so many shells in their warehouse buys that they sent pallets of them to the dump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 Best is probably not going to be competitive on price. He'd rather hold on to what he has than negotiate. I've heard that Best and B&C got so many shells in their warehouse buys that they sent pallets of them to the dump. I don't even want to know what's been sent to the dump over the years. It would not surprise me at all if pallets of new shells were simply thrown out. I did buy a case of 8-bit shells from either Best or B&C at some point, and that's all they would sell me--one box. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBrian Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Well someone should contact the two of them . Give them a reality check . Hang on to the shells and never sell any if a mould was to be made or start selling them . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Hello guys As you can see, all three types of cart shells Atari used, have practically the same dimensions. Differences are less then a millimeter, I guess. That's not counting the lip. Sincerely Mathy Well, from left to right (except first picture): - Donkey Kong Jr.: a Taiwan cart shell, the standard Atari pcb`s of Atari 800 and Atari XL carts (8k and 16k carts, like e.g. the Donkey Kong cart pcb) do fit in there; downside: it uses noses / notches instead of screw(s); one should change the design in such a way, that this cart shell uses noses/notches to hold the pcb in place and one or more screws to close the cart shell... - Donkey Kong: an Atari 800 cart shell (the later XL cart shells are the same, they only have a different / silver label) for standard 8k and 16k carts - Crime Buster: a Hong Kong cart shell, with a screw under the label and a lip on the backside; alas, the standard Atari cart pcb`s do not fully fit in there (a friend of mine tested this and showed me, since he has 2x 50 standard 8k and 16k pcb`s available and searches for a cart shell right now). - atarimax cart-shells: are not based on Steve`s design, meaning he did not invent them, these cart shells were already available in the 80s, see here: Personally I prefer the Atari XE Taiwan carts, but with a screw to close the shell-halves. Another cart-shell which I like is used by Epyx, Spinnaker, Fisher Price and others: Alas, I do not know who created these Epyx, Spinnaker or Fisher Price carts. But they were made in the USA, as were the Rally Speedway, OSS and TG Software carts (the same design atarimax uses)... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Grey shells match 400/800/XL computers? Or perhaps black is better for all Atari 8-bits? I don't know, I have to check my carts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 There were many different color shells produced -- Atari wasn't consistent, either. Gray, brown, black, red, yellow, translucent red, blue, etc. Would have to look through my large assortment of 8-bit shells. Black was pretty common beyond the brown/gray shells Atari produced. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirx Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Hello! This is site of the manufacturer: http://www.maszczyk.pl/pl/offer/view/86/335/obudowy-km-20b Any quantities available. By default black and light grey colours, but with a but larger order you can have translucent or what not. CharlieChaplin is right, the shells are good for new projects as they are not really ideal for Atari PCBs. Edited July 16, 2014 by pirx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I just checked my carts. I think black color matches all Atari 8-bits: beige 400/800, beige XL line, grey XE line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBrian Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I must say my favorite are the xe gray shells with the blue labels . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 I must say my favorite are the xe gray shells with the blue labels . I do like those as well. ..Al 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Hello Charlie - Crime Buster: a Hong Kong cart shell, with a screw under the label and a lip on the backside; alas, the standard Atari cart pcb`s do not fully fit in there (a friend of mine tested this and showed me... Could you please ask Torsten (I guess that's the friend you are talking about) if he can take a picture that shows us why and where the ATARI PCB's don't fit? Sincerely Maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Hello Pirx This is site of the manufacturer: http://www.maszczyk.pl/pl/offer/view/86/335/obudowy-km-20b I really do not like these cartridge shells. They don't look and feel like "Atari". And usually, either the PCB moves inside the shell or the shell will not close nicely or both. That's why we need new cartridge shells. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Hello Charlie Could you please ask Torsten (I guess that's the friend you are talking about) if he can take a picture that shows us why and where the ATARI PCB's don't fit? Sincerely Maybe Damnit, you know my friend Yes, of course I will ask him to take a picture and maybe give some explanation why and where the standard Atari pcb`s do not fit in the Atari XE Hong Kong cart-shells... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirx Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) I really do not like these cartridge shells. They don't look and feel like "Atari". And usually, either the PCB moves inside the shell or the shell will not close nicely or both. The main reason is probably because these were "universal" C64 and Atari shells... Nowadays the only problem with new shells is quite prohibitive cost of moulds. Best, pirx Edited July 17, 2014 by pirx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8bitCarts Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) I stumbled on this, and i see AtariAge logo, they discuss cart shells, maybe? Interesting. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:23216 (watch video) what aboutmaking them with a 3d printer? http://www.grandideastudio.com/portfolio/pixels-past/ old AA topic: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/170640-cartridge-cases/ Edited July 18, 2014 by chrislynn5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Could get someone to do some injection molding to make a custom size enclosures. Should be something that can accommodate a few different board designs, like the 8K, 16K, 64K or larger XEGS. Had a few other boards like OSS, Williams, etc. One screw in the middle, plastic top and bottom probably be cheapest. Adding that metal piece may be more. Some have tabs on the side and top to hold the board in place. The goal would probably be $5 or less per cartridge shell. I know how some people are complaining about how much Atari Age and Atari Sales charge for these retro games. If the cost of the producing the cartridge (shell, board, ICs) is already approaching $20, you cannot expect the game to sell cheap. Now you have to consider store revenue markup, Royalties of people who encoded everything, and shipping, you are looking at another $20 to $30. I have been keeping an eye on trying to find ways to reduce the price of these games. Not just to generate more revenue for those involved, but to make it so more people enjoy the games we make. I hope some of you understand our reluctance about floppy disks or having the game available for pay per download because we want limit the piracy. Edited July 22, 2014 by peteym5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) I know how some people are complaining about how much Atari Age and Atari Sales charge for these retro games. If the cost of the producing the cartridge (shell, board, ICs) is already approaching $20, you cannot expect the game to sell cheap. Now you have to consider store revenue markup, Royalties of people who encoded everything, and shipping, you are looking at another $20 to $30. The two 8-bit games for sale here on AtariAge currently are going for $30 each: AtariAge Store: 8-Bit I suppose they could be as cheap because they were all done up quite a few years back though... IDK... Edited July 22, 2014 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) I hope some of you understand our reluctance about floppy disks or having the game available for pay per download because we want limit the piracy. Truthfully, it's no more difficult to make a dump of a cartridge, if one has the tools at hand. And it only takes one dump to start the piracy chain. Just sayin'... Edited July 22, 2014 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 I suppose they could be as cheap because they were all done up quite a few years back though... IDK... Nope, that's not why. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Nope, that's not why. ..Al Hmmm... and these look like they come with nice quality labels and full-color printed manuals... Have you ever discussed things with Al before Pete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Nope, that's not why. ..Al Alright, question answered. It looks like only the boxed games on AA cost more than $30, judging from what I'm seeing in the 7800 and 5200 Homebrew sections. Edited July 22, 2014 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Island2Live Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 ... I talked about it with somebody, but that other person doesn't respond anymore. But I'd be making them, because nobody else is. ... It's me who Mathy talked to in a very detailed and interesting discussion. Unfortunately some things changed in my life so it needed urgent investigation and together with many many other things I had to abandon everything Atari-related for some month. Many apologies for this. Regarding making new shells for the cartridges: It appears to me the process of making/molding new shells is definitely not a technical problem. There are thousands - and I mean thousands - of companies out there how make plastic molding for all kinds of things (toothbrush, liquid containers for »coke«, the press-buttons on your PS4-Controller, the controller itself, and so on). The coloring of the plastic, the type of plastic and so on ... this is not a problem. The problem is the amount of shells you want to make. The process of making is named »injection die casting« or »injection die molding« (»Spritzguss« in German). For this you need a »form« and this one is the expensive component. It runs at least for 1,000 Euro in Germany. Since the shell for a cartridge has two components (upper and lower half) you need two forms doubling the cost to at least EUR 2,000. When making 1,000 shells each shell will cost at least EUR 2.00. When making 10,000 shells each one goes for EUR 0.20. Add the cost for the plastic itself but this is usually very very cheap. My big problem was to get reliable information. I've contacted some companies via eMail but non of them responded (very strange). It appears to me my contact try was too unspecific. The companies need a 3D model in a specialized CAD format of what to mold to make a price offer. This CAD format is nothing you ever heard of in your normal life (no AutoCAD, no 3DS Max, or whatever). This means: You need a perfect 3d model of your plastic shell in this specific format. Sounds not too complicated. But there is reason why there is a specialized CAD-format for plastic molding. It takes care for example about diameters in corners of your model. It takes care about thickness of walls. This is all needed because the hot plastic is pressed into the form and needs to flow into. Without all those things taking into account you can not make a useable model. This is all specialized knowledge (not taking into account the thousands of tiny things I forgot to mention because I am way not a specialist). Yes: There is a way to make produce brand new cartridge shells for the Atari 800 series. But it es expensive and complicated. But I am personally not willing to give up on this. Kind regards, Henrik (Island2Live) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Alright, question answered. It looks like only the boxed games on AA cost more than $30, judging from what I'm seeing in the 7800 and 5200 Homebrew sections. Yes, that is generally the case, since the boxes are quite expensive to produce. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozar Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I hope some of you understand our reluctance about floppy disks or having the game available for pay per download because we want limit the piracy. I wish there were more classic software available for purchase for download, but I can see that it would reduce profits. A $50 game at 10% profit margin is still $5.00, people probably wouldn't pay that much for a digital download (yes, people are not rational, they'll spend that much on a burger without thinking :-). I'd like to buy Beef Drop, but I'm not going to spend $30 on it (I'm not that big of an Burgertime fan :-). Especially since I'd only be able to play it on my XL and not in the emulators unless I dump it. Make it a download, $4.99, and you have a deal. I did buy Castle Crisis on cartridge, for two reasons: 1. It was before I had any Atarimax cartridges or SIO2SD 2. Paddles are the best way to play it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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