+SoulBuster Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Paul this makes me think we really should try to get some sort of round table discussion podcast put together at CGE with whomever shows up. At least let us all get together for dinner and drinks. I started a thread http://atariage.com/forums/topic/227888-cge-attendance/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdoerty Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Some basic questions about sales and ROMs. What will the sales possibilities be for those of us not going to CGE? I think it is a great place to debut a product and even sell special versions. But I have always felt no product should be just available at a single show. Will there be a limit on how many are made? Or how many someone could buy? I would hate to see some individuals get half a dozen if that meant others could not a limited run product -- at least until initial demand is met. I imagine this is BYOR (Bring your own ROMs). So I guess it woud be up to individual game makers/cart publishers whether and at what cost to make ROMs available for recent releases. Is that correct? Looking forward to hearing more information. Product cost is fantastic. Having this would make me much less worried about trying to link up my Intellicart in a world without serial ports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+nurmix Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Very cool use of an Intellivisionaries podcast to get this out....well played Sirs, well played. Paul this makes me think we really should try to get some sort of round table discussion podcast put together at CGE with whomever shows up. Nice of me to volunteer your services and skills me thinks. I need to go and book my flight, room and CGE ticket very soon. I was happy to do it, cmart. I've known about this for quite some time, but was sworn to secrecy. It's nice to finally be able to talk about it. As for your CGE roundtable idea, I don't think that will be a problem. Our intention is to record quite a bit at the show, parsing out the content over several episodes after CGE. And yes, book soon. The special LOW hotel prices only last until August 11th (as posted on the CGE Facebook page) https://www.facebook.com/groups/cgexpo/permalink/10152558784119138/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lathe26 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 If he manages to get by security force one, i have security force two. Security force 3 to 99 is top secret. Security force 100. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Games For Your Intellivision Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Some basic questions about sales and ROMs. What will the sales possibilities be for those of us not going to CGE? I think it is a great place to debut a product and even sell special versions. But I have always felt no product should be just available at a single show. Will there be a limit on how many are made? Or how many someone could buy? I would hate to see some individuals get half a dozen if that meant others could not a limited run product -- at least until initial demand is met. I imagine this is BYOR (Bring your own ROMs). So I guess it woud be up to individual game makers/cart publishers whether and at what cost to make ROMs available for recent releases. Is that correct? Looking forward to hearing more information. Product cost is fantastic. Having this would make me much less worried about trying to link up my Intellicart in a world without serial ports. No one said anything about ONLY selling it at CGE. Nobody said anything about limiting the quantities. The boards are very expensive and the point is that the initial run will certainly be 'limited' but when it sells out, a new run will be done....there of course, will be turn around time. Not to imply that people have 'forever' to get these things, but at the same time, if you want one in September, I am sure you will be able to get one...or two, or three.... Balance is the key. Don't procrastinate and assume they will be around when you get around to buying one....but at the same time, there is no need to storm the gates to buy one. No decisions have been made regarding pre installed ROMS. Joe could always put the Match 5 Demo and the Space Patrol Demo on them as well as other freely distributable stuff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lathe26 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Seriously, the LTO Flash! looks really awesome. Something like this has been desperately missing from the community. I am looking forward to this and will likely buy a few (if quantities at CGE run low, I'll be nice and buy only 1 now and get more later). Is there a programmers guide available? I'm interested in learning about how to take advantage of its features. For me, this announcement does have a slight tinge of bitter-sweetness to it because it (unintentionally) torpedoes a few ideas I had for Intellivision hardware projects that I was planning to start on in the next few months. At the same time, the torpedoing of a few idea is also a good thing. This is a good way to trim down my idea list of Intellivision hardware projects (had way too many already) so LTO Flash! will help me focus on other ideas and not get spread too thin. Lastly, I have some firmware feature questions / suggestions that I'd like to PM someone. Who's the technical person I should pass these on to? I'm guessing Joe Z, but I thought I'd ask first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 same LTO case or was it modified for the micro usb port? I hope R1 can be found Looks to be designed for single pass through a pick and place machine, single component side nice and close on the decoupling caps 2-layer? Same LTO case. I manually cut a notch for the USB connector. All components on the same side, 2-layer. R1 is up in the upper left. Perhaps you meant R15, down by the USB connector? I purposefully left that resistor off during the prototype run. It'll get a 0Ω resistor in production. The LTO Flash! sounds like a great product, and it definitely will open up some fantastic possibilities for the Intellivision and its community. [...] P.S. What's the official name, I thought it was "LTO Flash!"? LTO Flash! is the official name. Locutus is the code name. However, I truly hope that DRM does not become the defining feature of the future of the Intellivision. Intellectual property issues are already a defining feature of the homebrew scene. Consider the recently canceled Smurf game. My hope is that folks who would otherwise never consider providing a ROM for download might now consider doing so. For example, imagine if you could get Intellivision Lives! and Rocks! ROMs directly from Intellivision Productions, even though their CDs are out of print. I would love to invite them to the ROM download party. No need for the backhanded compliment. That seemed needlessly crass. I'm not a big fan of DRM either, but I'd like to bring as many folks to the table as possible. Some basic questions about sales and ROMs. What will the sales possibilities be for those of us not going to CGE? I think it is a great place to debut a product and even sell special versions. But I have always felt no product should be just available at a single show. I'll definitely be selling these outside CGE. CGE serves as a concrete milestone to focus everyone on a release date. I don't do show-only items. :-) Will there be a limit on how many are made? Or how many someone could buy? I would hate to see some individuals get half a dozen if that meant others could not a limited run product -- at least until initial demand is met. These things get made in batches due to the cost of production. There's a fixed overhead to do a batch that gets divided across the batch. If the initial batch sells out, I can do additional batches if demand permits. If you're prone to sitting on the fence, now's the time to get off the fence and just buy it. :-) The threshold for a new batch is pretty high. If you missed out on the Intellicart and/or CC3 because you waited too long, imagine how you'd feel if you also missed out on LTO Flash! I imagine this is BYOR (Bring your own ROMs). So I guess it woud be up to individual game makers/cart publishers whether and at what cost to make ROMs available for recent releases. Is that correct? Yes, it's BYOR. LTO Flash! also opens up some new options for homebrew authors that might have been apprehensive in the past about providing a ROM download for their titles. Looking forward to hearing more information. Product cost is fantastic. Having this would make me much less worried about trying to link up my Intellicart in a world without serial ports. Yeah, the serial port seems to have gone the way of the dodo. The Intellivision, however, keeps soldiering on. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lathe26 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Regarding DRM, I'm excited for this feature too. I think that this will open a new way to distribute games. Some games ideas simply don't deserve the full and expensive CIB treatment. Manufacturing a box, instructions, and overlays is expensive and can be very, very time consuming for someone who is mainly a software developer. Now Intellivision developers can whip up a simple game that they know will never sell for $70 CIB but might sell for $10-$20 as just a downloadable ROM. Example: someone comes up with an odd pong variant that wasn't already done on the great Paddle Party CIB game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+evg2000 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 one concern about DRM is when your cart fails, do you then have to hope the person who distributed the ROM is still around to create another one for your backup/replacement cart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdoerty Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 @Intvnut @GamesforYourIntellvision Thanks for the updates. I imagine I will be in the first or second batch. And I know of no one in the Intellivision community who does show-only items (though there have been some special editions), but it never hurts to ask to be sure. Is there a webpage or separate thread with more specific details about the LTO Flash!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Seriously, the LTO Flash! looks really awesome. Something like this has been desperately missing from the community. I am looking forward to this and will likely buy a few (if quantities at CGE run low, I'll be nice and buy only 1 now and get more later). Is there a programmers guide available? I'm interested in learning about how to take advantage of its features. [...] Lastly, I have some firmware feature questions / suggestions that I'd like to PM someone. Who's the technical person I should pass these on to? I'm guessing Joe Z, but I thought I'd ask first. I'll definitely make a programmer's guide available, as well as an update to jzIntv and SDK-1600. I don't have one currently, but it's definitely in the plan. There's three main sections I think I'll need to cover: JLP based functionality (non-volatile memory, accelerator functions, etc.) Serial port I/O Page flipping / bankswitching to access the full 1MB RAM as either RAM, ROM or a mix. As for firmware questions, feel free to shoot me a PM, or email me at my normal email address. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 No need for the backhanded compliment. That seemed needlessly crass. I'm not a big fan of DRM either, but I'd like to bring as many folks to the table as possible. It was a sincere compliment. Personally, I thought that announcing copy protection as a feature was unnecessary and tacky, and that's why I mentioned that I hope that didn't turn into the defining characteristic of our community. Moreover that comment was directed specifically at the mentions of DRM, not at the product itself, so give me a break. My praise for the product was sincere, and I am really looking forward to getting one. You of all people should know better than that. -dZ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 one concern about DRM is when your cart fails, do you then have to hope the person who distributed the ROM is still around to create another one for your backup/replacement cart? That is a good point. If your LTO Flash! fails (heaven forbid!), then I'm sure we can figure out a way to accommodate that reasonably. Realistically though, how often has a CC3, Intellicart or JLP-based board failed in the field? I know in the lab we've seen a few flaky boards, and we don't ship those. :-) That's normal manufacturing fallout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+evg2000 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I've actually heard of several issues with the CC3, I think usually a problem with the memory card slot. This shouldn't be a problem with the LTOF! BTW, not knocking the cart at all. Sounds like a great cart, and a great price! Thanks to all of those involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 That is a good point. If your LTO Flash! fails (heaven forbid!), then I'm sure we can figure out a way to accommodate that reasonably. Realistically though, how often has a CC3, Intellicart or JLP-based board failed in the field? I know in the lab we've seen a few flaky boards, and we don't ship those. :-) That's normal manufacturing fallout. I wouldn't expect the LTO Flash! itself to fail. I guess the concern would be if you lose or break it, but that risk is already there with other physical media, so no difference there. -dZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 It was a sincere compliment. Personally, I thought that announcing copy protection as a feature was unnecessary and tacky, and that's why I mentioned that I hope that didn't turn into the defining characteristic of our community. Moreover that comment was directed specifically at the mentions of DRM, not at the product itself, so give me a break. My praise for the product was sincere, and I am really looking forward to getting one. You of all people should know better than that. -dZ. It just caught me a little off-guard / raw is all. Text-only posts strip subtlety, so it's easy to come across the wrong way. Anyway, as I said on the podcast, it's an experiment. We'll see how it turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I've actually heard of several issues with the CC3, I think usually a problem with the memory card slot. This shouldn't be a problem with the LTOF! BTW, not knocking the cart at all. Sounds like a great cart, and a great price! Thanks to all of those involved. Indeed, my biggest worry on LTO Flash! is with the USB connector. :-) Any physical interface like that is subject to wear and tear and the like. Given that this same connector goes into gizmos such as cell phones gives me some hope that it'll hold up well for LTO Flash! Also, the USB cables I'm providing give a really solid lock. I'm quite impressed with them, actually. So, hopefully there will be no issues there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cmart604 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 At least let us all get together for dinner and drinks. I started a thread http://atariage.com/forums/topic/227888-cge-attendance/ Absolutely. I'll buy the pizza. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cmart604 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I was happy to do it, cmart. I've known about this for quite some time, but was sworn to secrecy. It's nice to finally be able to talk about it. As for your CGE roundtable idea, I don't think that will be a problem. Our intention is to record quite a bit at the show, parsing out the content over several episodes after CGE. And yes, book soon. The special LOW hotel prices only last until August 11th (as posted on the CGE Facebook page) https://www.facebook.com/groups/cgexpo/permalink/10152558784119138/ So just to be clear, we're going to be running a 24/7 live video blog throughout the expo right? I feel like Rick might get tired doing so. Someone is going to have to feed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cmart604 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Security force 100. Sheep0003.jpg I'm not sure the first 99 levels of security will have any effect on me...but the sheep..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) It just caught me a little off-guard / raw is all. Text-only posts strip subtlety, so it's easy to come across the wrong way. No worries. Looking back, I perhaps should have split those two comments into different posts--they were distinct thoughts. In any case, I would imagine that I've been very clear about my positions in the past--and especially my displeasures--enough to show that I mean what I say: if I like something I say it, if I don't I've said that too. I do not give feign praise nor backhanded compliments. Anyway, as I said on the podcast, it's an experiment. We'll see how it turns out. It is a very exciting experiment, indeed. I haven't had the chance to listen to the podcast yet, but I am especially excited about the support for IntyBASIC that you mentioned in another post. I think there is great potential to offer frameworks for hardware-accelerated features. -dZ. Edited July 20, 2014 by DZ-Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Rick Reynolds Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) So just to be clear, we're going to be running a 24/7 live video blog throughout the expo right? I feel like Rick might get tired doing so. Someone is going to have to feed him. Wait, what? Is Nurmix volunteering me for stuff again??! The Reynolds Research Department doesn't run well on no sleep!! Edited July 20, 2014 by Rick Reynolds 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+nurmix Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 So just to be clear, we're going to be running a 24/7 live video blog throughout the expo right? I feel like Rick might get tired doing so. Someone is going to have to feed him. 24/7? Probably not THAT frequently. But you can still feed Rick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+nurmix Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Wait, what? Is Nurmix volunteering me for stuff again??! The Reynolds Research Department doesn't run well on no sleep!! I see no evidence that extended slumber time equates to improved Research Department performance. Either that or the department is always sleep deprived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Games For Your Intellivision Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Personally, I thought that announcing copy protection as a feature was unnecessary and tacky.... That is because it actually IS a feature. A very good one that will bring lower cost games to the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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