Hastor Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) Sounds like they should prohibit CD/dvd-r drives and media while they're at it. They effectively enable backups on Dreamcast, Sega CD, TG-16, 3DO, CDI, and others. Weird policy but they can do what they want I guess. Edited April 28, 2016 by Hastor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Sounds like they should prohibit CD/dvd-r drives and media while they're at it. They effectively enable backups on Dreamcast, Sega CD, TG-16, 3DO, CDI, and others. Weird policy but they can do what they want I guess. It was inspired specifically by Nintendo going after flash carts for their systems. So, it makes sense that they'd ignore media that Nintendo machines can't use, but which has substantial non-infringing uses and is truly generic. It's pretty easy to draw a distinction for a "Device built for system X"/"disk containing specific software for system X designed to circumvent an access control" and "generic blank media that can be used on almost anything involving data." That's pretty much what they've done. It makes as much sense as the DMCA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TestaOn Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 In that case, maybe call it... The ICCIN - The Intellivision Cartridge Completely Incompatible with anything associated with or related to Nintendo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) In that case, maybe call it... The ICCIN - The Intellivision Cartridge Completely Incompatible with anything associated with or related to Nintendo. Unfortunately, LTO Flash! will play an unmodified Coleco Donkey Kong (©Nintendo) on an Intellivision II (which normally blocks it). Two strikes in one stroke! Well three, considering it's Coleco Donkey Kong. But please, let's not go there. Edited April 28, 2016 by intvnut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hastor Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I honestly feel that flash carts are used for homebrew and development at a higher rate than optical media is used for non infringing purposes, especially movies. In any case I'm just commenting, not trying to change anything I also don't think that people after flash carts are the same that are going to be happy with an emulator, official or not. If Nintendo gave me a way to get games for original hardware while supporting them instead of a random collector that had nothing to do with creating the game, I'd be more understanding. I have quite a few virtual console games but I typically ignore them for the real hardware on a CRT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hastor Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Also glad to hear about Donkey Kong, as an Intellivision II owner that could never get it to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I honestly feel that flash carts are used for homebrew and development at a higher rate than optical media is used for non infringing purposes, especially movies. In any case I'm just commenting, not trying to change anything I also don't think that people after flash carts are the same that are going to be happy with an emulator, official or not. If Nintendo gave me a way to get games for original hardware while supporting them instead of a random collector that had nothing to do with creating the game, I'd be more understanding. I have quite a few virtual console games but I typically ignore them for the real hardware on a CRT. You'll get no argument from me on any of these points. In fact, Chad found out that their policy is strict even if the rights holders give the thumbs up. (He asked for, and got, Intellivision Productions' blessing on the Intellicart, as I recall.) In the end, it's a policy put together by lawyers intended to be enforced by bureaucrats, none of which are necessarily technically savvy. Anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I'm likely not in the majority here...but for me and I would hope for most that really want not just this product but anything that you really want. You would be willing to do whatever to get payment to procure the item? So I'm in for this however I have to get one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterg74 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 It was inspired specifically by Nintendo going after flash carts for their systems. So, it makes sense that they'd ignore media that Nintendo machines can't use, but which has substantial non-infringing uses and is truly generic. It's pretty easy to draw a distinction for a "Device built for system X"/"disk containing specific software for system X designed to circumvent an access control" and "generic blank media that can be used on almost anything involving data." That's pretty much what they've done. It makes as much sense as the DMCA. Except that a flashed/modded Wii uses precisely that to play backup games... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) Except that a flashed/modded Wii uses precisely that to play backup games... That's not my point. I can back up my photos and documents on CD-Rs, and share family videos on DVD-Rs. Audio CD-Rs and players actually have an added royalty fee built into their price that goes to ASCAP, BMG and etc. to cover artist royalties (at least in the US). A flash/mod chip for a Wii only works in a Wii, and its sole purpose is to allow using the Wii in a manner other than Nintendo desires... (until a menu update from Nintendo bricks it). Likewise, a Nintendo DS flash cart only works with a Nintendo DS. Edited April 28, 2016 by intvnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric7100 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I bet that PayPal policy creator never rode on a roller coaster in his life. He needs to light up a fatty and not take life so seriously. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I bet that PayPal policy creator never rode on a roller coaster in his life. He needs to light up a fatty and not take life so seriously. LOL. Or he did, and sued when it gave him a headache. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpmaul69 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 That's not my point. I can back up my photos and documents on CD-Rs, and share family videos on DVD-Rs. Audio CD-Rs and players actually have an added royalty fee built into their price that goes to ASCAP, BMG and etc. to cover artist royalties (at least in the US). A flash/mod chip for a Wii only works in a Wii, and its sole purpose is to allow using the Wii in a manner other than Nintendo desires... (until a menu update from Nintendo bricks it). Likewise, a Nintendo DS flash cart only works with a Nintendo DS. luckily the wii mod can block nintendo updates but nintendo stopped caring about wii and virtual wii on the wii u. They havent done an update for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBWW Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Well we will buy them the old fashion way then! Too bad the risk is high. It will slow sales but not stop them. I'm in for 3, I'll make out the check and the address the envelope anytime. :-) Technology was supposed to make this stuff easy. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Games For Your Intellivision Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 Well we will buy them the old fashion way then! Too bad the risk is high. It will slow sales but not stop them. I'm in for 3, I'll make out the check and the address the envelope anytime. :-) Technology was supposed to make this stuff easy. LOL There is absolutely no risk. Anyone who doubts LTO's dedication to getting the product that people pay for to the customer, hasn't been paying attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymiester Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Why not use SquareUp.com? I've had no problems with them and I have no issue paying the 3.5% transaction fee to off set your costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBWW Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 I meant that it is unfortunate that PayPal is such a high risk. I'm not on the offense here. There is absolutely no risk. Anyone who doubts LTO's dedication to getting the product that people pay for to the customer, hasn't been paying attention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 (edited) I meant that it is unfortunate that PayPal is such a high risk. I'm not on the offense here. 'Tis cool. It's sometimes easy to lose the intended meaning in an online forum. Edited April 29, 2016 by intvnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Games For Your Intellivision Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 I meant that it is unfortunate that PayPal is such a high risk. I'm not on the offense here. Sorry, my mistake in how I read it. It seemed like you were saying that the risk is 'high' to purchase in the 'traditional' way, with a cheque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBWW Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Nope, I'm on board with whatever it takes to get a few of these goodies. Sorry about any confusion. Jay Sorry, my mistake in how I read it. It seemed like you were saying that the risk is 'high' to purchase in the 'traditional' way, with a cheque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lathe26 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 If not PayPal digital cash, do you accept payment in chickens? I swear I'll put airholes in the box this time. The last person I paid was so angry. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 I'd be happy to accept your PayPal money in that case Mike and forward it as a gift to certain people. I didn't want to volunteer anyone, but this exact thought occurred to me. We clearly have many people here who take money online for Intellivision games already. Seems like something could be worked out pretty easily. It isn't even really any work, just a few mouse clicks to move some money around. And to those that doubt intvnut's hesitation with PayPal - trust me, he speaks from experience. PayPal is basically the worst company around for sellers, but because they're the big fish, you have no choice but to deal with them. They are entirely unregulated and uncontrolled, and at any given time they sit on several tens of millions of other peoples' money. Just because they're asshats. Cheques are a serious hassle. I haven't actually owned any since the 90s - I don't even know how to get them anymore. I probably have to order 500 from my bank or something. Fortunately US money orders are easy to get in Canada, so I have that option. I'm surprised if any western country doesn't have this concept in some form or another. Personally, I'm just gonna bring a bunch of US cash to PRGE and hopefully see everyone in the flesh that I wanna buy stuff from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterg74 Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) I didn't want to volunteer anyone, but this exact thought occurred to me. We clearly have many people here who take money online for Intellivision games already. Seems like something could be worked out pretty easily. It isn't even really any work, just a few mouse clicks to move some money around. And to those that doubt intvnut's hesitation with PayPal - trust me, he speaks from experience. PayPal is basically the worst company around for sellers, but because they're the big fish, you have no choice but to deal with them. They are entirely unregulated and uncontrolled, and at any given time they sit on several tens of millions of other peoples' money. Just because they're asshats. Cheques are a serious hassle. I haven't actually owned any since the 90s - I don't even know how to get them anymore. I probably have to order 500 from my bank or something. Fortunately US money orders are easy to get in Canada, so I have that option. I'm surprised if any western country doesn't have this concept in some form or another. Personally, I'm just gonna bring a bunch of US cash to PRGE and hopefully see everyone in the flesh that I wanna buy stuff from I on the other hand, am surprised at how little people from the US and Canada know about the rest of the countries of the "Western world". No such thing as money orders here and certainly much less a money order to send to somebody in the US. There is of course Western Union which pretty much exists everywhere but those are even bigger thieves than anybody else and the fees would probably cost as much as the cart itself to send the money in the first place. Edited April 30, 2016 by walterg74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 I on the other hand, am surprised at how little people from the US and Canada know about the rest of the countries of the "Western world". No such thing as money orders here and certainly much less a money order to send to somebody in the US. That's strange. I've been sending international money orders for decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_order#International_money_orders I'd expect that maybe Somalia might not have them, but I've exchanged money with people from over 40 countries this way in my life, including much of western Europe - hence my phrasing. It was the ONLY way to send money between countries at one time, if you were a lowly peasant like myself. Short of sending cash in an envelope of course, which is precisely what we had to do when dealing with developing nations. I'm not sure where "here" is for you, so I apologize if I don't know how every single country works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+JasonlikesINTV Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 And to those that doubt intvnut's hesitation with PayPal - trust me, he speaks from experience. PayPal is basically the worst company around for sellers, but because they're the big fish, you have no choice but to deal with them. They are entirely unregulated and uncontrolled, and at any given time they sit on several tens of millions of other peoples' money. Just because they're asshats. Personally, I'm just gonna bring a bunch of US cash to PRGE and hopefully see everyone in the flesh that I wanna buy stuff from The peeps at PRGE should be a much higher class of asshats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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